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How to increase chances of twins? - Page 3

post #41 of 66
I love my twins, and I'm (in a way) thankful for my experience as a twin mom. It's toughened me up big time. That being said, I would never wish for twins. It's too much stress on a family, especially if you already have kids. It's too much stress on a marriage. And, if one of the babies (or both, in our case) is born with issues or disabilities...the chance of which ALSO increases with age, and with twins...it's a hellish ride at times.

Wishing for twins, in my mind, is like wishing to be forced to run a marathon when you're not equipped to run a marathon. Yeah, you can do it, but WHY? Just for the challenge? To me, that isn't enough to make it worth it.

It's HARD.

So many people I run into ask me about how to have twins, or tell me about how they always wanted twins. I'm usually polite, but sometimes it makes me so sad. For the most part people have NO CLUE what life is like when you have twins, or especially when you have disabled twins. It is NOT the same, not even close, as having two children very close in age. It is NOT the same, not even close, as taking care of several kids in a playgroup.

There are a lot of cutesy reasons why people want twins, and those reasons are well known to people in our society (the "twin bond" comes to mind). What isn't so often talked about are the things that are tough...the divided attention, the added cost, the increased chance of prematurity and disability, the impact on marriages and stress levels, etc. You really need to look at the whole picture.

post #42 of 66
Quote:
It is NOT the same, not even close, as having two children very close in age. It is NOT the same, not even close, as taking care of several kids in a playgroup.
Oh, but I have had so many mamas tell me they understand because their kids are 15 months apart. I even had someone say "I bet it is easier having twins than 2 kids close in age." :
post #43 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
I've retyped this a hundred times and I know it's still going to come out wrong, but... I don't know... just be careful what you wish for. Twins are really rare, I mean VERY rare in the natural human experience. There's a reason for that. It's easy to get all daydreamy about twins but it's extremely hard for the fantasy to come close to the reality for many, many mamas. Best of luck to you either way.
I have always wanted twins. Always. I wished I was a twin growing up, and I dreamed of twins with both pregnancies.

Then I had two newborn foster babies at the same time (they weren't twins, but they were the same age--two different families). Someone today asked me how I did it, and I said I was too tired to even think, so I didn't quite tune into the fact that I was tired. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I did it, and if my DH wasn't totally against it, I'd do it again. But, my deep longing for twins has finally eased. I'll just enjoy my best friend's twin 2 year olds, and take my foster babies one at a time.
post #44 of 66


I am SO trying not to rain on your parade, but you have to understand something - the twin fantasy thing is pretty common and I can at least speak for myself by saying it's always SSDD... the two chubby armfuls of warm, milky-faced smiles, the womb that magically carries the babies to full term with no complications and delivers them pip pop into a warm bath at home, the plentiful milk supply, the "oh the early months will be hard but I can handle it and it'll be sooooo worth it!" cheerful optimism.

But it's not about lost sleep or lost showers or lost moments to yourself. It's about (often) having to compromise every parenting goal and ideal you every had just to make it through the darn day... just to keep them alive. It's often just a question of survival, not MDC hand-wringing over whether you should use a nipple shield or not, or whether to get the twins matching Robeez booties. Yes, sure, some women have those champion wombs (tee hee - I love that phrase) and manage the incredible feat of bringing two 7 lb. newborns into the world at 40 weeks with no interventions or medications -- in fact, all five of them are here on MDC and their stories are gorgeous and inspiring and beautiful and I just love those birth stories so much, but IMO do not delude yourself into thinking this is normal. And it's not just about being careful about selecting your birth attendant and reading Henci Goer and following the Brewer diet and obsessing over your birth plan... twins are so rare. They're just so rare. I'm talking about a human continuum perspective here. Usually they didn't make it, or the mother bled out or miscarried, and when they both were born, one was usually much stronger than the other, and you'd pick the weak one and leave it to die from exposure because, well, of course no one could be expected to raise TWO at once! Later on as society advanced, you gave one to your infertile brother & sister-in-law to raise as their own.

Modern medicine has given us a tremendous gift -- now twins are hundreds of times more common than they used to be, and what's more the twins are both surviving for the first time ever... but no one tells you that humans just flat out weren't meant to deliver litters of children. So you get your two babies, but then the neighbors and spouses and relatives go home eventually and now you're by yourself and that's when the compromising REALLY gets fun.

Some people think that having more than one child or two kids close in age prepares them for twin infants. (snort) I had a singleton after having my twins and the experiences were night and day. I barely could remember I had a newborn, life was so easy compared to having twins. At no point since having three children (and it was TWO 2 year-olds and a little baby for a while!) was life even CLOSE to as tough as it was having twin babies. It's not twice as much work, it's three times harder! Just like having triplets isn't three times the work, it's like four or five times the work!

I have raised my twins as AP as possible (but compared to our third child, I can certainly see it was "AP lite" with lots of heartache from compromising my ideals). You know what? It's not all about just respecting the children as individuals or having the right ideals. It's about WHAT YOU DO. It's the dirty little secret no one especially here likes to admit. Can you really call your children "raised AP" if they don't cosleep, don't breastfeed exclusively, don't child-led wean, don't get near-immediate response to their needs, don't get fed on demand, don't get worn in a sling nearly constantly, and get PLENTY of time with babysitters (whether or not related), even strollers, baby swings, and bouncers? I'd love to say yes, but I think the fact is, sure, your intent matters, but so does what you actually do.

Which brings me to... I adore my twins. With ALL of my heart. I love the bond they have, we have. I love knowing "we did it!" But... I would never in a million years wish twins on anyone.

As I said in my first post, I wasn't going to "go there" at first, but the way this thread has gone and maybe recent posts have triggered the mama bear in me, lol, and I just want to shout from the mountaintop TURN AROUND! GO BACK! YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT LIES AHEAD! There I said it. It's all out there, warts and all.
post #45 of 66
I'm just going to : all those who said they never wished for twins and that people idealize the whole experience too much. Especially Periwinkle, for whom I am now filled with utter adoration. :

I love my girls more than anything in the universe. But they've brought me to my knees in more ways than one, more times than I can count.
post #46 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
I have raised my twins as AP as possible (but compared to our third child, I can certainly see it was "AP lite" with lots of heartache from compromising my ideals). You know what? It's not all about just respecting the children as individuals or having the right ideals. It's about WHAT YOU DO. It's the dirty little secret no one especially here likes to admit. Can you really call your children "raised AP" if they don't cosleep, don't breastfeed exclusively, don't child-led wean, don't get near-immediate response to their needs, don't get fed on demand, don't get worn in a sling nearly constantly, and get PLENTY of time with babysitters (whether or not related), even strollers, baby swings, and bouncers? I'd love to say yes, but I think the fact is, sure, your intent matters, but so does what you actually do.
With respect, just as the people having the picture perfect experience isn't the norm...your experience isn't the sum total of things either.

I had a high stress pregnancy, with the TTTS. Yet we coslept (including our toddler), all 3 of my children breastfed exclusively until at least 12 months, all three child-led weaned, all three were fed on demand. None of them got a lot of time with babysitters. I didn't sling them because they didn't like it. And while the boys may not have gotten the same instantaneous response DD got, we were always present with them. And they didn't like any of the baby gear, except for the bouncy chairs--of which we had one.

My boys were born at 4lbs and 6lbs, at 36 weeks. (They were taken not because they needed to be, but because I was becoming very ill. Tom developed an infection from a needle poke he'd received shortly after birth that wasn't found out about until he was 5 days old, when he was crashing and needed to be medivaced to children's while receiving 2 emergerncy blood transfusions, a week stay in the PICU, and 8 weeks of home IV antibiotic therapy (with all the midnight runs to the ER to reinstall the line when it came out, until we had one surgically done halfway through). But even so, Tom never received formula, and it didn't disrupt the nursing relationship.

I don't romanticize having twins. And i admit, that I got my ass handed to me in a major karmic retribution way for my AP snobbery about my daughter. But having twins does not mean that it's impossible for anyone to AP parent.

In fact, I think it may make you a better AP parent in the long run, because the universe will beat listmaking and rigity out of you. It's do or die.

Yeah, I get annoyed at people taking the sunshine and rainbows view as well. Seeing how twins were romanticized in stories and modern popular culture was like a punch in the face for awhile. (especially since for the first time I really could identify with the ancient custom in most cultures about exposing one or both twins, they were a sign that you were not favored.) But you know, what happens happens. You deal with it as best you can. I was fortunate to have a great volume of young children who were all mellow and who instinctively knew how to breatfeed well and a body that seemed to be built for milk production. And a partner who telecommutes and was 100 percent supportive and better yet, a full co-parent. Even then, it was freaking tough to just get through day to day and probably for about the first 12 months it was a "I can survive another 10 minutes" type of deal.

If you had asked me 2 years ago what I would do if I got knocked up again with multiples, I would have said, truthfully, that I would find it really hard not to be suicidal. Now I don't feel that way, but my kids are older and there's more distance between that physical/emotional/spiritual exhaustion that very few people aside from multiple moms (and then, not even all of them) understand.

I think you do a disservice to the moms here to imply that AP parenting of twins can't be done or that we glibly lie about being able to do so. I think it absolutely CAN be done, but it's very hard and you're likely to have the snobbishness hammered out of you. There's lots of reasons why AP sometimes has to be 'adapted'. Whether it's special needs on the child's part, coping with the unexpected death of a spouse, disability, having to take guardianship of siblings/other relatives and thus expanding your family exponentially overnight, ect....just because your family doesn't look like the cover model for a Sears book doesn't mean that you can't AP. Multiple newborns is neither the hardest adjustment that a person could face, nor a walk in the park. No more, no less.

I've seen plenty of moms HERE especially admit pain, struggle, despair, exhaustion, myself included. I find it insulting that this would be dismissed as keeping a 'dirty little secret'. I haven't seen very much of that at all, though I've seen plenty of 'wannabe' questions that veer off into that arena, and people trying to help calm down someone who's just found out about multiples on the way.
post #47 of 66
But, Tigerchild, Periwinkle's post was in response to those who romanticize parenting twins. I'm glad you were able to do all those things, and feel good about yourself as an AP parent. I feel like it's very easy to talk about the positives here, but harder to admit the ways in which we fall short. That's what Periwinkle is giving voice to, and I, for one, really appreciate it.

In fact, I am electing myself president of the Periwinkle Fan Club.
post #48 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie'sMom View Post
But, Tigerchild, Periwinkle's post was in response to those who romanticize parenting twins. I'm glad you were able to do all those things, and feel good about yourself as an AP parent. I feel like it's very easy to talk about the positives here, but harder to admit the ways in which we fall short. That's what Periwinkle is giving voice to, and I, for one, really appreciate it.

In fact, I am electing myself president of the Periwinkle Fan Club.
Can I be the VP?

With all due respect, Tigerchild, I think you missed the point.
post #49 of 66
I don't believe I have missed the point. There's a reason why I quoted the paragraph I did.

I think most of the MoMs here agree that it gets annoying and even hurtful to deal with other people's starry eyed notions of twin fantasy.

However. AP moms of multiples already face an uphill battle and lots of people telling them "you can't." In fact, do we or do we not often have to pick up the pieces on this board when an AP mama finds out about multiples and then is feeling crushed by the "you can'ts"? (of course, then they have non MoMs dogpiling them about how they should be grateful for their blessing and not scared crapless like a normal person would be...but I've never seen that fail to provoke a mama-bear reaction from fellow MoMs.)

I've never pulled any punches when it comes to talking about my experiences here. It feels a little insulting to have it be insinuated that speaking of difficulties in AP land is forbidden here or that nobody speaks of them.

We do. Even in the wannabe threads.

Hell, I've been called out for being too negative in the past, but NEVER by another multiple mom. (on this board, anyway)
post #50 of 66
Okay, I'm glad someone on this thread responded to the romanticizing twins thing, because it's so eye-rolling-inducing for me. I didn't want to be snarky. But yes, I got twins at a young age (22yo) via a night of unprotected sex with an idiot who never was involved in their lives or mine.

ITA with periwinkle's description of what people think of twins. Yes, when you saw me out with my twins when they were little, they were generally fed, clothed in something clean, and relatively happy, and very cute. But behind the scenes I didn't sleep for months, they didn't sleep for months, we all cried regularly, they were born at 34w, they were in the NICU for a week -- which, compared to many twins, seems like they were very lucky! -- the laundry piled up, I felt like I was going to have a psychotic breakdown, and yeah, I have two arms but often they needed more than two arms! It was out of a horror movie. I felt blessed if I could brush my teeth once a day. I met my dh when they were a few months old, and we had a long-distanced relationship til we got married, when they were 6 months old. So he missed a lot of the "fun" times. Ha.

I totally bow down to the moms here who had an older child (or 2 or 3 or more) and then got pregnant with twins -- I can't imagine it, as even my twins pregnancy required an enormous amount of effort, much more than my subsequent pregnancies with 2 singletons.

Anyway, my feeling is that we're part of a club where god (or something/someone, or random luck/bad luck!) chooses the members.
post #51 of 66
I have enjoyed reading this thread -- so honest in every direction.

The topic is making me think of the early weeks of my twin pregnancy when we thought it was just one. I was throwing up every day (for more than 20 weeks), eventually bursting veins in my eyeballs and throwing up blood because I burst veins in my esophagus (things you usually don't have to worry about while pregnant). I was complaining to my dad on the phone one night and said "[DH] says it must be a girl, or twins". My dad said he hoped I would have twins, because he thought it would be "neat". I said "don't wish that on me. I've had one baby and know how hard it is in the beginning. THere's no way I could do it with two... I am sure it's just a girl, and one with a lot of personality."

Well, at that 20 week ultrasound, she said "there are two" and we've had to figure out a way to do it, with two girls who have a lot of personality. It has been the hardest thing I have ever done. For the first 15 months, if someone said to me "Oh, I had always hoped for twins" I would ask with utter seriousness "Why? Are you crazy?" And even now, when it is so much easier, I still believe there is a reason humans usually have one at a time. To me, everything about a twin (and higher order multiple) pregnancy is hard. Not that there aren't amazing mamas who handle it with grace and whose bodies bear the burden well, who don't have horrible all-day sickness or weird carpel tunnel syndrome, or a thousand other hard things. To me, everything about newborn twins -- not that there aren't babes who are born big and strong and calm and easily soothed -- is challenging.

But we do it. And we encourage each other in our work. And we come here to hear the honest stories, both good and bad, and to take inspiration from those who have held close to their parenting ideals, who manage to raise amazing kid and maybe even keep partnerships intact. And that doesn't change the fact that it is so very hard.

Back to my dad and him thinking twins were neat. He was here for a few weeks after they were born, and a year later when they were learning to walk, and this summer when they were running wild. We've been to their home three times since then as well and talk on the phone a lot. He has gotten a first hand glimpse into our crazy life starting with nonstop crying, explosive pooping, round the clock nursing, moving on to their struggles to talk, seeing two with rotovirus at the same time, hearing about strep and fevers and threats of failure to thrive, witnessing dangerous leaping, running in different directions in the street and being awed by their determined(stubborness) times two and more. This last time I finally said "neat? You still think twins are neat?"

He still says yeah.

ANd I'm (just now) beginning to think he's right.
post #52 of 66
I am LOVING this thread! I can totally appreciate everyone's points of view because I have felt a mixture of all of those things. I am one of the crazy mamas that DID desperately want twins and I would love to have them again. Why? I don' know, I think I may be a little crazy. I am one of the lucky ones who carried to 40 weeks, had big twins, had a homebirth, exclusively breastfed (never even pumped), have co-slept from the beginning (and we still are co-sleeping and night nursing at 20 months). I am very, very fortunate and I realize that. It is hard because I don't want to make other twins moms feel bad who weren't as lucky but I also want to encourage pregnant mamas that you CAN AP twins. Did I have to use the bouncy seat and swing? Yes, of course. But I have given everything for those babies and I know in my heart they have been given the best life possible.

I think my toddler is the one who suffered the most. He was the one that was neglected, that I forgot to feed, that was left to sit on the potty because I couldn't come wipe his bottom, that was screamed at for waking up the babies, etc. I don't feel any guilt for how my babies were parented but I feel a HUGE amount of guilt for how my toddler was neglected during that time. I remember Karen Gromada making a statement that she STILL apologizes to her kids (now grown) who were toddlers when her twins were born. I cannot even put into words how awful it makes me feel when I look back to that first year after the twins were born. Thankfully, my son does not remember being neglected or treated poorly, but I remember. I also had very severe PPD and even though it was a joyful time, it was kind of like living hell. Anyway, all that to say, that my babies were treated so well and even better than most singletons out there. I think my toddler and I, and the rest of the family are the ones who suffered. And don't even get me started on what having newborn twins can do to a marriage. :
post #53 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemelos View Post
I don't feel any guilt for how my babies were parented but I feel a HUGE amount of guilt for how my toddler was neglected during that time. I remember Karen Gromada making a statement that she STILL apologizes to her kids (now grown) who were toddlers when her twins were born. I cannot even put into words how awful it makes me feel when I look back to that first year after the twins were born. Thankfully, my son does not remember being neglected or treated poorly, but I remember. I also had very severe PPD and even though it was a joyful time, it was kind of like living hell. Anyway, all that to say, that my babies were treated so well and even better than most singletons out there. I think my toddler and I, and the rest of the family are the ones who suffered. And don't even get me started on what having newborn twins can do to a marriage. :
ITA. I think it tends to be the older kids who get the shaft, even if they're older than toddlers...not the babies. I think to some extent if you've got generous friends and family close by you can mitigate that to some extent, but mama's heart will remember. It's one of the reasons why put my boys into the opposite time slot in preschool than my daughter's kindergarten class. We now have 3 mornings a week of just-us time, and it's heavenly. We also were VERY fortunate in that I love and get along very well with MIL and she lived with us for 8 weeks after the boys were born and pretty much was all DDs. But in retrospect I think that's why I was so...bitter isn't the right word for it, maybe regretful or still angry (mostly at myself) for so long and would literally get sick at the thought of having another round of multiples. The thought of having to deal with the emotions of having my relationship with my older kids disrupted again, and the difficulty of being able to cushion the blow for 3 of them vs. 1 plus damage control on my marriage...*shudder*.
post #54 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemelos View Post
I am LOVING this thread! I can totally appreciate everyone's points of view because I have felt a mixture of all of those things.

don't even get me started on what having newborn twins can do to a marriage. :
Oh yeah. I wanted the man OUT OF THE HOUSE. : :

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoisLane View Post
I have enjoyed reading this thread -- so honest in every direction.

The topic is making me think of the early weeks of my twin pregnancy when we thought it was just one. I was throwing up every day (for more than 20 weeks), eventually bursting veins in my eyeballs and throwing up blood because I burst veins in my esophagus (things you usually don't have to worry about while pregnant). I was complaining to my dad on the phone one night and said "[DH] says it must be a girl, or twins". My dad said he hoped I would have twins, because he thought it would be "neat". I said "don't wish that on me. I've had one baby and know how hard it is in the beginning. THere's no way I could do it with two... I am sure it's just a girl, and one with a lot of personality."

Well, at that 20 week ultrasound, she said "there are two" and we've had to figure out a way to do it, with two girls who have a lot of personality. It has been the hardest thing I have ever done. For the first 15 months, if someone said to me "Oh, I had always hoped for twins" I would ask with utter seriousness "Why? Are you crazy?" And even now, when it is so much easier, I still believe there is a reason humans usually have one at a time. To me, everything about a twin (and higher order multiple) pregnancy is hard. Not that there aren't amazing mamas who handle it with grace and whose bodies bear the burden well, who don't have horrible all-day sickness or weird carpel tunnel syndrome, or a thousand other hard things. To me, everything about newborn twins -- not that there aren't babes who are born big and strong and calm and easily soothed -- is challenging.

But we do it. And we encourage each other in our work. And we come here to hear the honest stories, both good and bad, and to take inspiration from those who have held close to their parenting ideals, who manage to raise amazing kid and maybe even keep partnerships intact. And that doesn't change the fact that it is so very hard.

Back to my dad and him thinking twins were neat. He was here for a few weeks after they were born, and a year later when they were learning to walk, and this summer when they were running wild. We've been to their home three times since then as well and talk on the phone a lot. He has gotten a first hand glimpse into our crazy life starting with nonstop crying, explosive pooping, round the clock nursing, moving on to their struggles to talk, seeing two with rotovirus at the same time, hearing about strep and fevers and threats of failure to thrive, witnessing dangerous leaping, running in different directions in the street and being awed by their determined(stubborness) times two and more. This last time I finally said "neat? You still think twins are neat?"

He still says yeah.

ANd I'm (just now) beginning to think he's right.
BWAAAAAAAAH! Your post - especially the bolded part - made my cryyyyyy! Hugs to you strong mama!
post #55 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie'sMom View Post
But, Tigerchild, Periwinkle's post was in response to those who romanticize parenting twins. I'm glad you were able to do all those things, and feel good about yourself as an AP parent. I feel like it's very easy to talk about the positives here, but harder to admit the ways in which we fall short. That's what Periwinkle is giving voice to, and I, for one, really appreciate it.

In fact, I am electing myself president of the Periwinkle Fan Club.
Thank you. You said it better that I could. I NEVER meant to imply any impossibilities, only shoot down some of the fantasy daydream silliness of having twins (or more) and point out that, ya know, AP is easy when you are healthy and your baby is full term and healthy and you JUST HAVE ONE infant. But good heavens, most AP theorists and writers say that ideally children should be spaced no more than 2 or 3 years apart for the EXACT reasons as I have mentioned, namely, that being truly responsive and AP is really really really hard with more than one baby!!! That's all. I'm just trying to get real and say, sure you can have AP as your goal and sometimes you can even do some of the things, but it's harder than you'd ever imagine and MOST people comrpromise in big ways, and even if the babies are getting full-out AP focus and attention, if you have older kids, what happens to them?

Not trying to be a downer, just a realist. These threads drive me batty and maybe I should have just not opened it in the first place.
post #56 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I find it insulting that this would be dismissed as keeping a 'dirty little secret'.
Just responding to this directly to clear something up... by "here" I meant MDC, I was not referring to the multiples board. And I will certainly stand by that statement.
post #57 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
Just responding to this directly to clear something up... by "here" I meant MDC, I was not referring to the multiples board. And I will certainly stand by that statement.
I very much agree about MDC in general. Thank you for clarifying.
post #58 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post

Not trying to be a downer, just a realist. These threads drive me batty and maybe I should have just not opened it in the first place.
Well, I for one am glad this thread is here and am grateful to all the mamas who have written of all their experiences. I think this stuff is the kind of thing a lot of mamas think about all the time but have few people they can discuss it with. I mean, you start talking about the idea of thinking nature didn't intend us to have two newborns at a time and some people can jump to the conclusion that we don't love our babies, that we don't adore them and thank the universe every day for them and instead wish we could send them back or harm them or worse. Never in a million years would I trade my girls for anything and I feel blessed to have these perfect, amazing, delightful and awesome people they are. ANd I, too, have been able to apply some/most/many my parenting ideals/AP practices to them -- just not the way I did with my DS. So it CAN be done and this board is an amazing place to hear about and be inspired by other families who are doing it.

But sometimes the hard stuff needs to be discussed to (at least it makes me feel like i'm not alone, which is always a good thing). And so I am glad everyone here is discussing it so thoughtfully and emotionally and honestly.

You mamas rock
post #59 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
I'm just trying to get real and say, sure you can have AP as your goal and sometimes you can even do some of the things, but it's harder than you'd ever imagine and MOST people comrpromise in big ways, and even if the babies are getting full-out AP focus and attention, if you have older kids, what happens to them?

Not trying to be a downer, just a realist. These threads drive me batty and maybe I should have just not opened it in the first place.
I agree that it's hard. But you know, I actually think that APdom in general could benefit from more realistic thinking. Most people, multiples or not, compromise in big ways at some point or another. The truly insufferable people *tend* to just have one child that's very young. (this is not always true, just my observations after 6 years on the board...and I'm not knocking the noobs, as I've said before I *was* one of the insufferable arrogant AP snobs. I don't know if I necessarily said so publically, but I most certainly THOUGHT that way.)

Which is why I think multiples can be an advantage in that you WILL learn to bend or you will break. You WILL learn to pull the measuring stick out of your butt, or it'll snap and take you with it. You WILL learn how to make compromises, early...instead of going through another round of hell when your kids act like normal children and not the little AP angels that you were sure being perfectly perfect would mold them into being.

It's never sunshine and roses...but I dunno. I'm guilty of having a very warped view (compared to popular culture and perhaps even AP board culture) of parenting. The reason why I am not a pacifist anymore is because I have children. I have seen the predator/dark side of human nature in myself, because of being pushed to my limits physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. I do not sob and rend my clothes anymore thinking "how could ANYONE ever harm a child?" because I have felt what those people felt even if I didn't act on it.

I think some people can experience that with one child (especially if it's a difficult time). Multiples I think trigger it more often in people, and no wonder.

But I do think it's one of those things that you'll never be able to communicate to wannabes, to be honest. Because when you're in fantasy land, nobody thinks that those feelings could happen to them.

I don't know that it's any consolation, and for all I know your twins could be older than mine...but as more space gets between me and the first year of the boys' life threads like these are less traumatic/anger me less. Even a year or two ago I didn't bother to respond to them because I would turn into a raging glibbering frothing at the mouth can of whoopass. So you've already got a leg up on me.
post #60 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I agree that it's hard. But you know, I actually think that APdom in general could benefit from more realistic thinking. Most people, multiples or not, compromise in big ways at some point or another. The truly insufferable people *tend* to just have one child that's very young. (this is not always true, just my observations after 6 years on the board...and I'm not knocking the noobs, as I've said before I *was* one of the insufferable arrogant AP snobs. I don't know if I necessarily said so publically, but I most certainly THOUGHT that way.)
I totally agree with everything you wrote.


(especially the part about the people who are self-declared AP poster moms having only one child or like two children spaced 5 years apart : SO true.)
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