I still can't let this go. BF "killed" her baby?

[Frootloop]

First off, I want to say as I'm a MDC newbie!

I found out about this issue in June and very briefly discussed it with some friends on another site that I'm a member of, and I did get quite a lot of information, but I'm still feeling like I need to DO something. I've been lurking these forums for quite some time now and I truly felt that you all here would be the absolute best people to talk to about this.

I'll try not to write a novel here (much of this is copy and pasted from my original post about it), but I'm a bit long-winded at times, so I apologize ahead of time!!

In June, my cousin had had a miscarriage.. barely anyone knew about it (not even me until after the fact) since they like to wait until she is a couple months along to share the happy news because of the fear of something happening before then. She is also a very private person. My mom was one of the very select few who knew as she is one of the very few people that she opens up to. Mom said that she was a little over a month or so along and hadn't felt comfortable enough to share it with everyone yet. Then she lost the baby..
Mom shared the news with me while she was here visiting (we live 500 miles apart).. I guess because she knew I could empathize, but now I feel like my hands are tied.

Still, no one else knows about the pregnancy except the ones she told and then me. She is keeping it this big secret because of what her doctors told her. I am so unbelieveably sad for her.. but, I'm even more ANGRY

Her youngest daughter, who she WAS still BF at the time (which her pediatrician didn't agree with), was just about to turn a year old. Shortly before her miscarriage, her ped had informed her and her DH that the little one was "very slow".. as in, almost to the point of retardation because she was just then being able to sit up well on her own, she's been a bit slower at reaching for things, etc. From what I understand, she hadn't gotten a 2nd opinion yet and I don't know if she has by now or has plans to.

This new baby would have been her 4th child. They were hoping for another boy (currently 2 DDs, 1 DS). She's never had any problems with any of her pregnancies before.

Anyway..
She has been *informed* by both doctors that, because of the fact that she was still nursing the little one, that THAT IS WHAT CAUSED HER TO LOSE HER BABY!!!!!!! That the little one was taking all of the nutrition away from the new pregnancy : and died as a result of it. To clarify, one of the docs who told her this is the same pediatrician that told her that the little one is "very slow".. I honestly don't feel that she can trust him. The other was her OB/GYN.

She now feels guilty because not only had she insisted on continuing nursing the little one past one year.. which most of my mom's family thinks is "weird" anyway.. but also because she was BFing during the new pregnancy, which her pediatrician had advised that no one should do. So, she still won't share her loss with anyone. She doesn't want anyone to know that she was BFing during this pregnancy because "it killed the baby" and she doesn't want anyone to think badly of her. She is carrying an enormous amount of guilt. My own mom believed the doctor.. she didn't know! She said it very *matter of fact-ly*.. as in, a "hey, guess what they said happened?" kind of thing.
So, I'd almost bet money that the rest of the family would be just as clueless about it. I have a huge family that just loves to gossip.

Now, even if it WERE true, how can doctors just tell you that ? "Hey, your unborn baby died because you wouldn't stop nursing the other one like I told you to" (paraphrasing there, but that's the gist of what she was cold). How damned cold is that?????

She and I used to be really close when we were younger, but, we haven't been in years. I still want so bad to call her up and talk with her about this and tell her how sorry I am, but since I'm not even supposed to know about it.. I just don't know what I should do.

It seriously breaks my heart that she's going through this. I cry for her because I've been there. I had a miscarriage in 1995 and it was extremely tough to go through. I know that pain. I know the "what ifs" and "could've beens". I cannot imagine how much worse it would have been if I had been told that I did it to myself.

I do realize that even if she weren't afraid of hearing "I told you so", she still may not want to share her loss with anyone. I didn't share mine with many people, either.

I am just so hurt and pissed off for her and I want her to KNOW that she didn't do this. The little one has been off the breast since she was given this information.. which I feel horrible about as well. I've since printed off information for my mother to give to her and also sent her a few links, but she hasn't shared them with her yet because she feels that my cousin seems to be getting along fine these days. The little one is still considered "slow", but that's about all I know.

I'm so sorry that this was so long. I just feel like I can't let this go. It's one of those things that I think of almost on a daily basis.. for months now. I feel like I should call her up and talk to her to let her know it wasn't her fault. But, I can't do that without betraying her trust in my mother. I want to write a letter to those doctors and set them straight.. but I can't do that because I can't find out who they are without talking to her.

What CAN I do? This is weighing so heavily on my heart that it refuses to allow me to let this go. I can't even talk about it without tearing up.. heck, I'm crying as I type right now. My heart just breaks so badly for her and her husband. I know I've said that many times, but it really does.

Should I go ahead and betray her trust in my mother? Maybe just say that mom knew I had gone through a miscarriage before and felt that I could offer better support? Or should I just force myself to let it go somehow?

Maybe she has done more research by now.. I'm assuming that she'd done at least some prior to the miscarriage since she was attempting to BF during the new pregnancy instead of blindly listening to her doctor's advise.

[daniedb]

Honestly, while it is a hard call, I would pick up the phone and call. I would tell my mother first, and explain why you were doing it unless you think your friend would keep it quiet that you knew and wouldn't say anything and you don't want to have that confrontation with your mom. I think that your friend definitely needs some reassurance and comfort right now more than your mom needs to be protected from having gossiped. :

Many hugs to your friend, and I hope that you decide to get in touch with her. You might be the only person to tell her it's not her fault.

[queenbean]

I would call her too. Maybe pass along some links to information showing that it WASN'T her fault. She needs to hear it right now.

[Ruthla]

Ohh, that's a tough one. She needs support and she needs to hear that the m/c wasn't her fault, yet she might get very angry at both you and your mother since you "weren't supposed to know" about the m/c.

[WNB]

Honestly, a grieving mom does not seem like a good target for lactivism. For sympathy and hugs and understanding the pain she's going through, yes. For information to counter the bad information from her ped and her OB -- maybe. Helping her grieve and helping her to shed the unwarranted guilt seems more important than any 'lactivism' in this case.

[carriebft]

I dont think she's trying to educate the mom to be a 'lactivist'; she wants to make sure the woman knows that her breastfeeding was probably not the cause of her miscarriage and offer her concrete information to demonstrate that...which is widely available through LLL and kellymom.

I would even give you my OB and midwife's phone numbers. My OB said it was ok to nurse during my pregnancy last time and my midwife says its ok this time. I would happily do anything to make this mom feel better and know that her doctors are wrong.

But I know it will be hard since you aren't suppose to know....but I think if this woman is in a really dark place about this, giving her some light in the form of solid information and a supportive shoulder might be the way to go.

[lesley&grace]

http://www.kellymom.com/nursingtwo/faq/01safety.html

I also recommend that you send off an e-mail to Dr Jack Newman to see what he says on the subject, and then armed with the knowledge, call her to tell her it was not her fault, and that she needs to get a new dr.

My heart aches for her.

[veganf]

Originally Posted by Frootloop

Should I go ahead and betray her trust in my mother? Maybe just say that mom knew I had gone through a miscarriage before and felt that I could offer better support?

Yes. Absolutely. It's your mother and sister, not strangers.
And I would do everything in my power to find out the names of the doctors that are telling her these lies and try and educate them (ie. with a packet of information via registered mail at the very least).

[zoebird]

first, i'm sorry for your cousin's loss. second, it wasn't her fault. third, i'm angry that they put the blame on her too. fourth, this is a common behavioral pattern in medicine, in my experience. it's a lot about disempowering, blaming, and shaming, as well as scaring, to get compliance.

and it stinks!

[Frootloop]

Thank you so much for your responses. I greatly appreciate them

I'm so sorry if I posted this in the wrong forum! I honestly wasn't sure whether it would go under Breastfeeding Challenges or here or what since I'm new around here. If this needs to be moved, I completely understand. I picked this forum because you all REALLY seem to know your stuff and even though I haven't actually met or even talked with any of you, I have a true respect for all of you (can you tell I've been lurking a while? lol)

For the record, my feelings toward this aren't lactivism driven at all.. It's that my cousin has been lied to and made to feel even worse than she already would have had she simply felt that there was nothing she could have done differently (I know there's nothing *simple* about a miscarriage, it's a nightmare). But those doctors made her feel as though she unintentionally killed her child because she basically wouldn't listen to them. Like, "I told you so". And as I said above, even if it DID happen that way, it seems evil to me to be so cold about it.

I think that I will go ahead and give her a call. I know she wouldn't be angry with me at all, it's her relationship with my mother that I'm concerned about as far as the trust issues go. My mother never should have broken that trust and told me to begin with, but what is done is done, right? My cousin is hurting and hopefully, I can help

Again, thank you!!

[zoebird]

ime, it is evil. but they are ignorant of it because it's the way that the whole system works. it's all about disempowerment.

i share my story, though it's not really related.

my rabbit died last wednesday. by one vet, i felt blamed. but the other vet, i felt supported for our great loss.

on monday, our rabbit had a pretty serious issue. i woke at 4 am to extreme diarrhea. i bathed him, dried him, cuddled him in bed. my husband called the vet at 8 am (when they opened) to get an emergency appointment. they brought us in at 11.

once there, the vet hardly listened to us tell of his process and symptoms. this wasn't our normal vet--whom we chose because even though she's very western trained and oriented, she is at least open to october j living as long as he wanted (the others were very negative about his age). she wasn't there, and we had another guy. we wanted to give him the full run down over the past few months--in case anything connected together--but he didn't listen.

he asserted that the reason the rabbit had this explosive diarrhea was because there "wasn't enough fiber in his diet." now of course, this is ridiculous. when i defended mself, he reasserted "i'm just saying that this is usually the cause." i went to defend myself again, and he pushed forward--giving me shame and blame for the cause of my rabbit's problem! finally, my husband said "if he didn't have enough fiber in his diet, i would be highly suprised." he used a firm tone, and the doctor backed down.

he gave the rabbit sub-Q fluids and told us to keep him as warm as we could (and we did).

the next day, we visited october j's eastern vet. this was this third appointment for acupuncture. he was doing well with the treatments. from the first time that i went there, they LISTENED to me. they listened to my whole story, asked questions about certain things, talked about acupuncture and it's process, reiki, and related treatments that she does. we talked extensively about how to proceed, and she connected me with one of her volunteers who has a disabled (non-hopping) rabbit who has been disabled but healthy for 4.5 years (he's now 9.5 yrs old). it was the greatest blessing.

so, when i took him on tuesday am, they listened again. she gave me lots of information about how to care for him, taught me how to give him sub-Q flulids, told me about the healing properties of honey, gave us a new chinese medicine formula (he loved his chinese meds), and then didn't charge us for that new formula or for the sub-Q fluiids that we were to take home. She continually told me that i was such a good caregiver, that october j was such a happy rabbit, and that we'd do anything we could to get him to turn a corner--and that i could call at any time.

on wednesday, he passed.

when i called my western vet to make final arrangements (they're 5 mintues away instead of 60), they were so callous to us. the staff at the front desk was rude, and no one said "sorry for your loss." it was very perfunctory. here's the body, sign this paper, pick up the ashes on saturday. the doctor said "well, he was old. and it's hard to take care of old rabbits!"

even in the end, it was MY FAULT for not taking care of him. how about "sorry for your loss" and "you were a good bunny mom to him?" no, god-freakin-forbid that someone just dies and it's no body's fault.

afterwards, i called our eastern vet to let them know and to cancel the next acupuncture appointment. for 35 minutes, the secratary was on the phone with me, listening to me, sharing with me, offering her condolences. when the doctor had a free moment, she got on the phone, listened to me tell about his death, and told me that i did so well for him, that he was such a well-loved and well-cared for rabbit, that we couldn't have done any better, and we did everything right.

that little bit of absolution--it goes a long, long way.

she also sent us a condolence card that we received on saturday.

So, there is a difference in care out there--and you just have to find the right kinds of practitioners. when my friend went through her m/cs, her OB, her perinatologist--all of them were all about blame. what? you didn't continue with that supplement? you didn't dance in circles counterclockwise? you didn't do what i said? it was YOUR FAULT then!

but then, my client who is a pro-UC DEM, she had lunch with my friend and i and she said to her that she did everything right, that she was a good mama to that baby in the few short weeks of her life, and we did a memorial service for that m/c baby too.

and that little bit of absolution, it went a long way. a very, very long way.

so maybe you get to offer that. a little bit of information, a little bit of love and concern, your condolences, and the opportunity to say "it wasn't your fault. you're a good mama, and you did what was right for both of your babies, 100% of the way!"

i wish her peace in this time of sorrow. i hope that she doesn't blame herself. and i hope and pray that she finds others who are more open and supportive of her experience in the future. many blessings to her and yoru whole family.

[boobs4milk]

i had a miscarriage in may while still bf on demand my then 17 mo dd. hugs, i hope she can heal. not only was my dr. convinced that the nursing had nothing to do w/the miscarriage, he actually said that he wished that all of his moms who miscarry could nurse through it...i didn't need the drugs to help my uterus contract, and i had something to keep my grounded. it also didn't hurt that nursing helps release calming hormones. i was so eternally grateful for my nursing relationship w/my dd after my loss.

if you'd like to chat or you or your cousin need more info, please pm me and i'll get back w/you!

hugs and healing vibes...

[thebarkingbird]

that doctor was/ is a friggin idiot! i might call in your position. if you can show her a wealth of information that lets her know that doctor was wrong you may help her feel better or at least like she did not cause the MC. she needs to know that she did nothing wrong.

if you feel uncomfortable talking maybe you could give the info to your mom and ask her to pass it along.

[prettypixels]

Your body redirects all your energy to the growing bean inside of you. If anything, her milk supply would've dropped to protect her fetus; not the other way around. That's just evolution. Basic. Those doctors should get slapped with a lawsuit for making that mama feel so awful My heart goes out to her!

[Margot Adler]

those dr.s should be called out for their ignorance!

maybe your mom could suggest that your cousin confide in you because of your previous experience?

[Zadee]

Even if that were true, what a dreadful thing to say to someone who has just miscarried a child. Along with needing updated information on BF and pregnancy, her doctors should brush up on their bedside manners.

[mamadelbosque]

Does she have *any* idea what was wrong with the baby when she m/c?? I only ask, because *I* had a miscarriage the first time I was pregnant. I'm thinking back and as I recall I miscarried at 3 or 4 months, but I knew it was going to happen at just 1-2mos. Don't remember exactly now... it was called a 'blighted ovum' which they don't know why happens or anything.

And, yeah, I'd definetly talk to her. M/c is virtually never the mothers fault - it is almost always due to something having been 'wrong' with the egg/sperm to begin with (as in my case the first time around)...

[boobs4milk]

Originally Posted by mamadelbosque

Does she have *any* idea what was wrong with the baby when she m/c?? I only ask, because *I* had a miscarriage the first time I was pregnant. I'm thinking back and as I recall I miscarried at 3 or 4 months, but I knew it was going to happen at just 1-2mos. Don't remember exactly now... it was called a 'blighted ovum' which they don't know why happens or anything.

And, yeah, I'd definetly talk to her. M/c is virtually never the mothers fault - it is almost always due to something having been 'wrong' with the egg/sperm to begin with (as in my case the first time around)...

it may help her to try and find out what happened...or it may not. our baby had no known anomolies, yet i still m/c. i blamed myself, some days i still do, but my dr. never once let on that ANYTHING i did (the OOPS margarita or the time i climbed through the window when we were locked out of the house in a thunderstorm, and esp. not me bf'ing) had ANYTHING to do w/the m/c. sometimes, there just is no reason...

[Claire and Boys]

I agree with everyone else. I am another that has had a m/c while nursing, but having seen the fetus when I passed it there was obviously something wrong. wtihout going into detail it did not seem to have developed as it should've for the gestation it was. The vast majority of m/c are because of something genetically wrong with the baby and nursing will do nothing to affect that.

[Frootloop]

Well, I've decided that I am going to talk to my cousin, but I'm going to give my mom a heads up first. I do feel like I owe my mom that.. she shouldn't have spilled the information to me, but I feel like I'd be going behind her back, which I'm just not comfortable with doing. I'm going to have to get her phone number from my mom anyway since I don't have it on me. Hopefully, I'll talk to her tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest.

I'm just going to tell her that I can't let it go and that whether she really wants me to or not, I truly feel like I have to talk to her. Whether my cousin has researched it since then or not, someone needs to make sure she knows that she's not at fault. Mom has had the chance to give her the information that I had given to her a couple months ago (info that someone on another site had given me), but she hasn't done it and I'm not sure why. She said that she thought my cousin was handling things just fine and hadn't brought it up since, but maybe it's really because she didn't know anything about it either and wouldn't be able to really get into it all that well? Who knows..

I guess I do have a little lactivism in mind, but I will most definately save that for a little later. As far as that goes, I just don't want this situation to leave her never wanting to BF should they get pregnant again. The little one that she was BF at the time was the first of her 3 that she'd planned to BF past one year.. her other 2 were only BF for about 6 months.


WHY are doctors so damned misinformed when it comes to breastfeeding? I mean, ARE they really or is it all about the damn money?

Zoebird - I am sooo sorry about your pet rabbit I feel so sad for you. Your story there brought me to tears (I consider my cat to be my 3rd child). Thank you so much for sharing it, though. I understand exactly what you mean.

I think maybe with some of those in any type of medical profession, be it with humans or animals, sometimes we become just another case. Just another life. Just another death. That still doesn't make it right not to show some sort of ackknowledgement of the pain.. or even their happiness.