Perhaps I'm just incredibly naive, but who to trust?

[Frootloop]

Hi again =)

I can honestly say that I'm horrible at researching, especially when it comes to medical things. So, I'm having a few issues regarding who trust for accurate unbiased information. I really don't even know where to start.

So many of you have many sources of information that you turn to and trust such as Kellymom for BF and the like.
How did you come to trust your info? Is it just trial and error? Word of mouth? There are so many arguements for both sides that it's mind boggling : how do you know what is unbiased opinion? Or actual facts? Do you rely on each other for information and share that way? It seems like for every 20 pages FOR something, there are also 20 pages AGAINST it.

I know my beliefs about breastfeeding (100% for) and circumcision (100% against), but I don't know who to trust for information to basically prove my point when trying to explain my beliefs to someone without having to have someone else give me links to where they got their research or point me in the right direction.

Case in point - DH asks me why I all of a sudden seem so concerned about breastfeeding and circumcision (my kiddos are 10 and 14 and I can't have any more). I try to explain things to him about how I've read things here and there.. he asks me how I know what I read is actually true.. and I can say is, "well, I went to *so and so* and read it". Then he asks, "where did you get that link?". Ummm, "someone else posted it". Therefore, I'm looked at as if I'm just following others.

Another situation.. DH mentioned how there was all this new evidence that circ helps prevent the transmission of HIV. I told him that I'd read that the evidence was flawed. He looked at me as if I'd had two heads. I couldn't explain how I came to that conclusion without simply looking like a follower.. again.

I've read in these forums where people have said things such as "Well, the AAP says *so and so*".. sooo, do we always trust the AAP? If not, how do we know when NOT to?

My brain hurts from trying to explain what I mean here lol I really hope it made some sense. If not, I'm sorry!

[MamaBear1976]

You pose some very good questions... And the truth is, you'll never know for sure if your beliefs are 100% correct... Or if the information you read online, or are told (even by a doctor or Ph.D.) is 100% accurate, because everyone you talk to is a human being and has personal biases. And that goes for anything.

The best you can do is keep looking. If you encounter research that contradicts what you initially believe, you need to examine who did the research, why they did the research, who paid them (if applicable), and if there is more than one source of information. If you're really passionate about learning the truth, just keep digging and the truth will likely emerge.

In my research on for-profit milk donation, for example, I kept running across certain patterns of information that bothered me. When I'd call the companies involved directly, I'd get very consistent (and disturbing) answers, information which did not match what was being advertised. I posted the results of my research on my milk donation page, but I have always and will always encourage people to double-check my findings. I post telephone numbers and links when applicable, because I don't want people to take my word for it. I want them to do their own research and come to their own conclusions.

But that's just me. I know not everyone does it this way.

If you are looking for answers about breast milk and breastfeeding, I suggest looking for as many different, independent sources of information as you can. It's pretty well-known that breast milk is the best nutrition a human baby can get, and it's well-documented, in different countries and by different researchers. It's not just one person or one place that says it. The reason why Kellymom is regarded as a good resource is because she cites some of her sources on every page. She provides external links whenever possible. Instead of saying to your husband "Because Kellymom said so," you could say (honestly), "I found this information on several different websites."

Also, don't discount your personal experience! Information that's a "theory" doesn't always hold up well in real life... Particularly if you're faced with having to come up with a solution.

Just my $.02...

[carriebft]

come on over to the case against circumcision forum and we can give you all the evidence you need.

-80% of the world does not circumcise
-it is not recommended by any major medical organization
-numerous governments have come out against the circumcision to curb HIV idea
-numerous studies show circumcision, if not healed enough, can spread HIV to women...it also has no affect for homosexuals or needle users
-other studies show the cells in the foreskin eat HIV
-still more show that it is prostitution and higher use of infected sex workers amonst tribes that do not circumcise that accounts for higher HIV and not penis status


Come on over and we can give you lots more on the topic!!

[dewi]

You bring up an interesting observation.

What makes resources like Kellymom so reliable is she does not offer any of her “beliefs” or “opinions” everything on her website is footnoted and offers links to the researched evidenced based information on breastfeeding. It’s hard to argue with research.

Try not to convince anyone of your beliefs; I like Kelly mom or something published by the world health organization.

Try not to convert anyone let the research persuade them as it did you.

Some issues are a bit more controversial and you can say that.

[thebarkingbird]

the best thing to do would be to look up articles and check the references or works cited page. that should link you to or give you lists of articles and studies published in peer reviewed journals. those are generally the most reliable sources. look for things published by universities and that have made it through a process of peer review and people will not be able to tell you "oh you just think that cause so and so said" if they do you can say "so and so PhD said and 25 others agreed"

looking into alternative sources you ought to look into articles that review more mainstream literature. honestly, if you want to beef up your research IQ or at least know who to trust and who not to you might look at any book meant for an intro course in college writing. there will most certianly be a section on how to research credible sources and how to find out if something in a consumer magazine or on the internet is worth quoting.

[Frootloop]

Oh thank goodness you all understood what I was meaning! I get these questions in my head, but for some reason, I often have a hard time putting them into words. You've given me a few ideas and for that, I thank you!!

I think, for now at least, I'm going to sort of keep my mouth shut around people when it comes to hard facts until I've done a bit more reading (except for with my cousin that I posted the other thread about). I don't handle being caught off guard very well..especially when I can't really answer a question and really know for sure what I'm talking about. I tend to get really flustered when I feel like I'm being confronted. When I mean "facts", I mean things like when I hear (or read) people talking about how breastmilk has no nutritional value when the baby is over a certain age, or when people talk about babies needing (or not) extra vitamins when breastfeeding.. I've actually heard/read a lot of arguments like that. And also about tandem nursing - I really didn't even know it was possible until a few months ago. I didn't know our bodies make enough milk for more than one child. I had read and heard others talk about nursing while pregnant and that sometimes, it's ok to do. But, I've also read since then that it can be dangerous and I didn't really know why. I just want to make sure I have accurate information, you know?

I think a HUGE part of the problem that I have is that I'm just not a very convincing person and no one understands why I even care. Kind of like, "who the heck are you to be arguing this stuff.. and WHY?". I mean, I'm really kind of a nobody lol my kids are both in school all day and because of a few medical issues, I don't work. I only breastfed both of my kids for a brief time due to really bad advice and ZERO support. My son was circumcised without me having a clue what it even was. So yeh, I made a few huge mistakes in the past with my babies. Now, since DH is at work all day, I'm basically just kind of a stay at home mom with a lot of time on her hands. I really don't have much of a social life at all.

For some reason, knowledge about breastfeeding and circumcision are things that I just feel the need to put myself into hardcore right now.. and people are all treating me like I'm nuts! DH is feeling like I've changed.. Like, whenever I bring things up to him such as the Applebees nurse-out, he says things like "oh lord, where are you getting this stuff?!?" or "what did you read now?" or "are you trying to pick a fight? Are you wanting to argue?".

It's making me feel kind of stupid for caring so much. It's such a change for me. I've never talked about any of this stuff before.. with anybody. Now, I want to start educating everyone.. or something.


Carriebft - I have done a LOT of reading in circ forum, actually! In fact, I posted about our circ story (page 19, I think) in the circ regret sticky thread. I would most definately consider myself an intactivist, but that's where I have quite a problem with the conflicting information I read all over. That's a topic that's caused me to be butting heads with quite a few people. I need to research so much more about it.


Thanks for listening to my ramblings, everyone.. I'm sorry. I tend to do that a lot feel free to tell me to zip it lol

[thebarkingbird]

I mean, I'm really kind of a nobody lol my kids are both in school all day and because of a few medical issues, I don't work. ...Now, since DH is at work all day, I'm basically just kind of a stay at home mom with a lot of time on her hands. I really don't have much of a social life at all.

that sounds suspiciously like the life of Elizabeth Cady Stanton. She was definately NOT a nobody. you're not a nobody! i don't mean to minimize your medical problems whatever they may be but it sounds like you have a wonderful opportunity to choose some kind of thing to study and make yourself a real expert. i say go for it!

[zoebird]

i would turn it back on him. . .

do you think i'm an intellegent person?

do you think i'm capable of understanding whether or not information sounds plausible or real?

do you think i'm capable of considering different opinions and then deciding which one i think is correct?

i had one of these (and the only one) with my husband. when i was becoming vegetarian, he was afraid that i was reading biased information, that i was following along with someone (or something).

and i asked him "who do you think i am, really?"

it was a whole projection thing--a projection of his fears, etc. but he does know that i'm intellegent, that i research well, and that i am capable of making my own decisions.

when i asked him those questions directly, he said "of course." and i said "then i can know, when i know that something is right."

and, when i present things to someone else, it helps for them to be well researched and well written.

[zoebird]

oh, and i think you should also ask:

don't you think i should be an advocate for change, if i think that something that is going on is fundamentally wrong and harmful?

part of the reason that your passionate about this, is because you want to see a change. you see women and babies being harmed every day because of some very old fashioned traditions and laws and social ideas about babies and women.

when there is an injustice going on, aren't we SUPPOSED to stand up? i mean, heck, that's supposedly the whole reason for afghanistan and iraq. so, why should we run off and kill innocent people based on little or no evidence, but we can't run off and love and support innocent people based on "little or no evidence" (even though there is a lot)?

[wannabe]

I am totally sceptical of everything. I do think there's an absolute truth out there that we approach through science. So, I only trust evidence-based advice. There needs to be peer reviewed journal articles to back stuff up.

That's why I love kellymom.

Then he asks, "where did you get that link?". Ummm, "someone else posted it". Therefore, I'm looked at as if I'm just following others.

Ah, but the critical thinking on YOUR part of which sites have good information is the key point here.

[jessjgh1]

I try to do a balance between research and gut.... if it adds up and makes logical sense AND has research supporting it AND there are even many people talking about it intelligently, then I'm more likely to believe it.

But i do try to go through the papers & abstracts a lot till i get a feel for the issues .. notice things like sample size .. and percentages (like if something already ONLY happens 1% of time and something increases the risk of that by 10% or whatever, how SMALL that really is) but now I feel feel like i can 'trust' certain unofficial sources, like the wisdom here/Mothering. I still try to look at things with skepticism, but I admit that I'll trust a certain poster with hundreds/thousands of well thought out posts, or a site like Kellymom that is researched and respected... etc- especially if it matches up with logic and/or research.

sorry now nak'ing on the 'hard' side wanted to explain more

Jessica

[Frootloop]

You all have given me a lot of ideas to take in. I'm so glad I found this website and started posting, seriously. Thank you all SO MUCH.
And I will definately be doing lots more reading over at Kellymom.

One of the problems that I have with researching is that I can get overwhelmed really easily. If there is a lot of info, especially if it's all in once place, I feel very overwhelmed (14 yr old DS is the same way, except he just shuts down) and then start feeling very confused and can't concentrate on what I'm reading. I have to do a little at a time. I'm not even 100% what I actually want to research. I just know that I want to know all about BF and circ.

Another huge issue that I have with my own research is that, while I am very skeptical, I'm also one of the most gullible people that I know.. and that makes it a bit difficult for me to decipher true fact from opinion. Is that a bit odd? It's like I seem to fall for the wrong stuff! Maybe I'm just an oddball with a lack of accurate gut instincts haha.

thebarkingbird - You're right, I'm not really a nobody, I just sometimes feel as though I'm not much of a contributer.. like, what the heck can I do? My medical problems aren't anything too serious, I just have a LOT of different issues that keep me home for the majority of the time. But you're also right that I have an opportunity to actually do a bit of studying up on something. I need to search within myself to find out where my heart tells me to go.. where to focus my energy the most.

zoebird - You have absolutely nailed my DH. I mean, yours sounds just like mine when it comes to these kinds of thing (or at least in that instance). I would have never thought to ask DH those things. Thank you for the ideas.


Ugh, I feel horrible at this stuff! How on earth am I going to make a difference anywhere if I'm unable to articulate the things I want to say?

[zoebird]

here's the thing, gorgeous, you gotta work on your self esteem. you called yoruself a nobody, you don't think you're atriculate enough to have something to offer, and you let anyone cow you with a few simple questions about your sources.

stand up, woman! get some firmness about yourself! you have a mind, you have a heart, you have language and literacy. you have what you need!

now, just get your whole self around it, and the way will come.

[mamasophy]

Frootloop, sounds like a calling to me!

[elanorh]

Honestly, Frootloop - your different decisions and experiences in re: circ and bf, IMO would make you really good as an advocate in both of those areas. I think sometimes the people who are preaching from the choir aren't as believable or approachable as the people who have made different decisions and now regret them. There's a big difference sometimes between saying, "We did this and it's wonderful" vs. "We did this, and we really regret it; this is what we should have done instead."

I agree with Kellymom as a source - as you come across information, look to see whether they cite research and studies, and that helps. Peer-reviewed journals, as opposed to "published in the school paper" also matters. You've some really good advice above so I won't belabor that issue.

[amaretto]

I second zoebird's posts :

IMHO, good research will give you more self-confidence but I feel it is also a matter of communication. I have a hard time with that cause both DH and I become easily upset. So I "work out" in my mind about phrases like "Scientific research/WHO showed..." instead of "Research showed..", "statistics involved 10000 children show that ... " instead of "statistics show that ..." etc. Unfortunately, I don't get much of attention if I explicitly use the words "feel", "feeling", "intuition", "instinct", "nature", so I don't use them on such discussions
This way DH listens more carefully and doesn't jump over my first statement (maybe he does on the second but still ... it's a progress

I hope my story gives a tip (sorry for the )

I spent a lot of months getting such comments from DH and arguing about *my* ability to research well and *his* ability to make a conversation without becoming defensive/offensive (and stubbornly supporting MILs outdated opinions ). My coolest reaction would be "do your own research and then argue about it!!" but that wouldn't stop the fight ...

But I really want to be able to discuss with him and I know he usually does care (when he is not tired/preoccupied with sth else). So, when I want to state opinions and present research, I don't start a conversation. Instead, I send him an e-mail with a few links:
I choose the first link to point to a well known (mostly mainstream, that he feels familiar with) source that supports my opinion. Then, I give a couple of links to sources I consider to be reliable. Finally, I also provide one or two links that include (the most sensible I can find) arguments to contradict to my opinion. I do not include comments in the e-mail, I just make sure he knows which links are "for" and which are "against". Sites that show up again and again (like kellymom) start to look familiar and gradually gain his respect.

This way, I don't face and get upset by his first reaction (eyebrow of doubt, roll eyes or the "why do you care" questions etc). I wait until he opens the conversation feeling he also made some research of his own (I am not afraid that I might unwittingly trick him because he searches further when he disagrees). Moreover, he already knows what my grounds are so we can discuss further.
If he doesn't bring up the subject, I ask him if he read the e-mail. If he doesn't seem interested, I drop it. (Maybe later it comes up again). I have to let it go or else it affects the rest of the day's mood and the entire relationship.

Many hugs
-----
English is not my mother language, so please forgive my errors.

[dewi]

Hi Footloops,

Consider buying one of the best textbooks on Human Lactation (see the link below).
It really will help you feel confident and more knowledge.

The text book is fascinating and very readable. Educating oneself creates a lot of confidence and self esteem.

It sounds as if you have discovered a passion and something you are very interested in. Human lactation is a very academic and fascinating subject to study and so many mothers’ work life with breastfeeding has started exactly as you are starting by being interested in the subject beyond your own purpose of nursing your child. It is very consuming when you discover a new interest it puts a fire in you. Follow your heart and start reading more, going to local conferences


http://www.amazon.com/Breastfeeding-.../dp/0763745855