Not handing in homework=staying in at recess

[kathymuggle]

My son's school has a policy. If you do not hand in your homework or if you forget to bring in things (like the daily agenda) you will stay in at recess. If this happens 4 times, on the 5th day you will face an in-school suspension, when it happens 10 times you will have an out of school suspension.

I am conflicted about it.

DS is disorganised, and a little shy. Sometimes he forgets his agenda, sometimes he has his agenda in his school bag but it does not make it from his schoolbag to the teachers desk.

I think there are natural consequences to disorganisation, but I am not sure he needs external ones (unless his disorganisation affects other people, which it usually does not)

I think the disorginsation and shyness are personality traits...I am not sure he should be penalised for them? I know it would be easier for him (OK...maybe easier for the school!)if he was organised, but he is not. Maybe there are ways to help him be more organised without being punitive(although I have tried, lol. I am easing up, though...he is a good kid, with good marks, so I am trying to focus on the positive/see the big picture)

The note also made it clear that behaviour problems (hitting, name-calling etc) would land you in detention. I do not think forgetting your agenda and hitting are on the same par, and should land you with the same punishment....

What do you think?

kathy

[2crazykids]

Not Cool!

I am a teacher so let's chat about this...

1. how old is your ds?

2. grade?

3. what's the homework like? worksheets, reading, etc.?

4. how old/nice is teacher? temperament?

overall, i feel that any sort of punishment for failure to turn in homework is never ok. i have lots of great positive rewards that kids get for completing their homework for the week at the end of the week, i.e. play board games with the teacher, fun/messy science projects, messy art projects, etc. But NEVER any negative reinforcement. It just plain doesn't work!

[NaomiMcC]

Honestly I think it's a fair policy. Rules are rules when it comes to school and assigments with the punishment there to remind students to do the things they're supposed to do, in this case hand in homework and agenda.

Not to sound mean or a bitch, but I don't think 'personality trait' really cuts it. If that was the case there would have to be no rules for anybody based on their 'traits'.

As for a way to remind him...does the teacher not do a reminder each morning? Or how about a note reminding him everyday?

[EFmom]

I wouldn't be OK with it. Removing recess as a routine punishment is never a good idea. How much hype do we hear every day about childhood obesity? Kids need recess.

Suspension for failure to turn in your planner or homework? I've never even heard of that. What do they do if the kids get in serious trouble? The electric chair?

[kathymuggle]

[QUOTE=NaomiMcC;9144978]

Not to sound mean or a bitch, but I don't think 'personality trait' really cuts it. If that was the case there would have to be no rules for anybody based on their 'traits'.

QUOTE]

Hi:

I posted due to be conflicted. The thing is....I kind of agree with you! His disorganisation/shyness with handing in his agenda is a part of his personality, but it could also be a habit. I think it is both, in his case.

2 Crazy kids:

To answer your questions:

1. Ds is 11, in grade 6.

3. He usually does his homework (which is infrequent - and reasonable). He sometimes forgets it at home, or "forgets" to hand it in. He forgets his agenda at school often - hence I can't sign it. He will occasioanlly forget his agenda at home, but more often than not, "forgets" to hand it in.

4. the teacher is 35ish, fairly nice, and spends a lot of time on non-academics (making good choices, building self-esteem, being responsable). They have colours for behaviours - so she is into the reward/consequence thing.

kathy

[GuildJenn]

Kathy I agree with you a lot on other threads. This seems like a tough one, and I am kind of speaking out of my rear end since my son is little but here's my thought -

If your son were in grade 4 or younger I would be so with you on the recess thing - I personally think taking recess away from kids is totally counterproductive.

I'm also in complete agreement about consequences - I think it sounds a bit silly and very extrinsic.

However having said all that, I think your son is rapidly approaching the age where his relationship with the school is becoming his responsibility (in baby steps, not all at once). So I think I'd ask him what he thinks of it.

If the policy really upsets him, I'd work it at both ends - work on the organization with him (once he's the one who's identified the problem), and talk to his teacher about some alternative consequences.

If it doesn't bother him, I'd let him handle it - at least up to the out-of-school suspension part, where it does become your issue (supervising during that day).

[kathymuggle]

[QUOTE=GuildJenn;9145212]

However having said all that, I think your son is rapidly approaching the age where his relationship with the school is becoming his responsibility (in baby steps, not all at once). So I think I'd ask him what he thinks of it.

If the policy really upsets him, I'd work it at both ends - work on the organization with him (once he's the one who's identified the problem), and talk to his teacher about some alternative consequences.

QUOTE]

You are right. I will talk to my DS and see what he thinks.

OT: kids grow so fast. Sometimes I forget he is not a "little" guy - and it is hard to now when/how to step in.

Kathy

[kathymuggle]

Ok. I asked him - he is home today. He does not like the policy either....he thinks it is unfair that doing something like hitting someone has the same consequence (detention) as forgetting your agenda.

He would like to talk (with me) to the teacher about it.

I will keep you updated!

kathy

[LynnS6]

I have two problems with the policy:

1. The kids who are disorganized are probably the ones who benefit MOST from recess. Maybe my thinking is colored by my kid with sensory issues, but one of his issues is motor planning (which often becomes just plain old sequencing as they get older), and I can see this becoming an issue when he's older (it was for my brother who had very similar symptoms). The heavy work/running around on the playground helps reorganize him.

2. Kids who are disorganized are probably the ones who can least afford to miss class!

Oh and 3:
3. It's not connected logically to the 'offense'. I can see detention for anti-social behavior. Being disorganized? What's that supposed to teach them?

[EFmom]

Your son is old enough now that his homework could be factored into his grades. Not turning in homework would net him lower grades. That, to me, seems like a much more logical consequence.

[Zach'smom]

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a 6th grader to remember his agenda and homework. I don't see it as being harsh to disorganized students. It's about being repsponsible.
My kindergartner is expected to put his home folder in the basket on his teachers basket and to put away his things every morning without reminders. He does just fine with it.

I'm not sure if I agree with the consequence...

They are giving him 4 "freebies" before they take away recess.

[BusyMommy]

I agree with it as long as it's clearly defined and reinforced. We tell kids that part of homework is practicing their lessons and part of it is learning responsibility.

My 1st grade son sounds like the mirror image of OP's son. We work hard to establish a routine; ie. come home & empty your backpack. Papers go on the desk. As soon as homework is done, put it directly/immediately into the backpack. I NEVER do this for him. I remind him & wait patiently watching while he does it. When we arrive at school, I watch to make sure he empties his backpack and turns everything in.

If he's overwhelmed by the homework (amount or difficulty) meet w/his teacher to brainstorm ways to help; ie. tutoring, etc.

And, I disagree w/recess detention for not turning in work but I don't have any problem w/indoor work time at recess if work doesn't come back.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

Ok. I asked him - he is home today. He does not like the policy either....he thinks it is unfair that doing something like hitting someone has the same consequence (detention) as forgetting your agenda.

He would like to talk (with me) to the teacher about it.

I will keep you updated!

kathy

So cool!

[CarrieMF]

the homework i could see, but the agenda is over the top. The reason behind the agenda is a way for parents/teachers to communicate & for the kids to learn a method of organizing work/not forgetting(which of course doesn't help if he doesn't bring it home,lol).

Here when the kids get to school their agendas go on their desks. Some years they have handed them in, but it depends on the teacher. most of them have the kids put them on their desks. It helps remind the kids to do it when they walk in & see half the class with their agendas on their desks.

They do reward the kids for taking their agendas home & having a parent sign it. Every day there is an Agenda Draw. 1 for divison 1(1-3) & 1 for division 2(4-6). Each agenda is numbered they draw the numbers in the morning, the teacher checks the agenda & if the parent has signed their initials the child gets to go to the principle's office & get a pencil. They go through all the kids until every kid has had their name drawn & a pencil given, then they start the rotation over again.

[EFmom]

Originally Posted by Zach'smom

I'm not sure if I agree with the consequence...

They are giving him 4 "freebies" before they take away recess.

No, they aren't, according to the OP. They are denying recess each time, and giving detention for the 5th offense. Firing squad for the 6th. OK, I made that last one up.

[kathymuggle]

"No, they aren't, according to the OP. They are denying recess each time, and giving detention for the 5th offense."

Close. They are denying recess for forgetting homework or agenda each time it happens. On the fifth day, you face an in school suspension (whatever that means, but I think it means you miss both recesses).
On the tenth day, you face an out of school suspension.

Goodness knows whqt happens after the 10th day:

[Zach'smom]

I stand corrected. That is harsh. Even the most organized, responsible people will forget something once in awhile. I would talk to the teacher.

[Twocoolboys]

I don't like recess being taken away, especially for an offense like this. But, I do agree that he is at an age where things have to start being his responsibility.

I'm curious - What have you done to help him already?

What about a checklist at home on the fridge of everything he needs to take to school in the morning? He could even make the list (sounds like it'd be a short one - lol). And, then some kind of visual cue on his backpack to remind him to bring his agenda home, like a special key chain hanging from the zipper? Just some thoughts...

Even if being disorganized is a personality trait (which I think it is as my dh has that gene), there are things that people can do to train themselves to be more organized.

[EFmom]

On the fifth day, you face an in school suspension (whatever that means, but I think it means you miss both recesses).
On the tenth day, you face an out of school suspension.

In school suspension typically means that your kid sits in a detention-like setting all day long.

[mama-meg]

I'm also wondering what you have done at home to assist your son. I was a disorganized child and my school didn't have recess after the 3rd grade so it was more of a note home to a parent if things were left at home type situation.
There was no point in my school years where I magically became more organized on my own. I didn't become more organized until much later in life and looking back it would have been a great service to me if someone had stepped in and actively helped me to become more "with it" - instead it was often dismissed as a personality trait - a negative thing that I was critisized for, but couldn't be helped. Well, as a child I didn't know *how* to improve the situation and instead I withdrew even further.

Now I'm much more proactive about organization with my own kids. I'm specific about what needs to be done. I check frequently that they do it. I've established routines for the morning, afternoon and evening and if there is something that needs to be done at school I will follow up on it - reminding beforehand and asking about afterwards.

You may want to ask your son what he thinks would help him in this situation. Would it help to have a chart on the door? Would a note in his lunchbox reminding him to bring home his planner trigger his memory? If he has his planner with him and ready to be turned in is there something that is stopping him from doing so? Would just talking about it before and after school help until it becomes a habit?