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Does your 6yo know these things? - Page 3

post #41 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelKnee View Post
Is this seriously what public schooled 1st graders know?
How many of us knew this stuff in 1st?
These I knew -
- Count to 100 by 2s, 5s and 10s
- Use tally marks for counting
- Understand place value for 1s 10s and 100s
these I had a vauge understanding of -
- The world's major oceans, continents, and northern and southern hemispheres
- Three major kinds of rocks
-the meaning behind symbols such as the flag, the American Eagle and the Statue of Liberty
- Know about famous Americans - Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Susan B. Anthony, etc.

Why are kids being pushed so hard so early?
I can tell you right now that in my state, 3rd grade classes review the names of the continents and that even includes the gifted school! I didn't learn about the 3 kinds of rock until jr high, I'm sure. And I never really paid attention because they were just additional, random factoids, as someone said, that we were supposed to memorize for a test. I relearned these while homeschooling my child, only because he was interested in geology.

I remember doing homonyms (they told us bear, bare and beer) in 2nd grade maybe. Susan B Anthony was a common book report choice in the 4th grade. I have no recollection of learning about the Mayans or Incans in elementary school. We learned mostly about North American history and the Ancient Greeks. My niece, who is in accelerated classes, did stuff about the Mayans in 6th grade.

I have a really hard time believing that these are typical standards for first graders in the U.S. Some of them, like the skip counting, I believe. But all the social studies factoids and science stuff, nah...If these factoids are being presented to 6 year olds in typical public schools, then I would imagine that it's just part of the pump and dump methodology....you know, they have to pump it into their little heads over and over and over until the kids finally remember some of it after several years. I'm not impressed by what the academic input is in school, because from my personal experience and a look at the state curriculum, I know that they have to continually throw this info at them over a long course of time since it usually doesn't stick.
post #42 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by famousmockngbrd View Post
That is an example of applied knowledge... your DS is able to identify root words, suffixes, prefixes, etc. based on his understanding of the language, not what these things are called. If you know "homo" means "one", for instance, and can decipher a word's meaning based on that, yet not know what that word part is called, you have gotten the useful part of the knowledge, IMO.
Yet still get it wrong, as you have demonstrated, when it comes to application. Knowing what it is helps you to apply it better and more successfully.

Quote:
BTW... I stil maintain that homonym and homophone are the same thing. :
And this is what disheartens me about homeschooling sometimes - when the parents refuse to learn any different and so pass on the same mistakes to their children. Definitely helps me to see the professional teacher's point of view against hs'ing in general.
post #43 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanbaby View Post
and every once in awhile I go "Uh oh, did I forget to educate the children?"
nope you didn't forget!! - that list is still rediculous imo. i am a structured homeschooler, and i follow a scope and sequence and i buy curriculum. i love core knowledge, and many of the things they include in their sequence excel past public schools. maybe my dd will know a lot of that stuff when she's in first grade - but she'll be 7 then - not 6.

there is a growing trend that kindergarten includes 6 year olds now because parents are waiting - and rightly so. the education system is continually expecting children at younger and younger ages to "know" things. even if that list isn't meant directly for 6 year olds, but rather first graders -- many of the things mentioned should not be the focus of a 6 year old's education in my opinion. are those things important?? ....sure! but what's the value of making some of the things on that list part of such a small child's agenda. anyway. my rant is over. and it wasn't to you oceanbaby or anyone else....just ranting. my husband is asleep and i'd annoy him if went in there and ranted about a list...so i'll do it here

i think it sounds like you are doing a wonderful job!!
post #44 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyGrace View Post
And this is what disheartens me about homeschooling sometimes - when the parents refuse to learn any different and so pass on the same mistakes to their children. Definitely helps me to see the professional teacher's point of view against hs'ing in general.
Because a professional teacher never passes on incorrect information. I don't mean to be snarky, but I have many stories I could tell about teachers getting it wrong! (Though I think this particular example is not one of right/wrong, but one of technical right/commonly accepted right.)
post #45 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyGrace View Post
Yet still get it wrong, as you have demonstrated, when it comes to application. Knowing what it is helps you to apply it better and more successfully.



And this is what disheartens me about homeschooling sometimes - when the parents refuse to learn any different and so pass on the same mistakes to their children. Definitely helps me to see the professional teacher's point of view against hs'ing in general.

Did you even see the direct quote from the dictionary above? Even in the dictionary definition they are interchangeable. She's not refusing to learn, you are.

My six year old doesn't know many of the things listed, and I'm good with that. He does, however, know some things that your "average" six year old probably doesn't. Because he is interested in knowing them. That's what I refer to as "real knowledge".
post #46 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by famousmockngbrd View Post
BTW... I stil maintain that homonym and homophone are the same thing. :
"homo" mean same.
"nym" means name, so "homonym" means same name.
"phone" mean sound, so "homophone" means same sound.

It's really quite straight forward. I love word roots.

Another thought on the list thing -- when my kids were 6 they understood the idea that some words had more than one meaning, and some words were spelled differently depending on which meaning they were refering to. (The picture book "Truman's Aunt Farm" is a wonderful way to introduce this concept). They only recently got interested in sorting out all the details for spelling.
post #47 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdmama33 View Post
Did you even see the direct quote from the dictionary above? Even in the dictionary definition they are interchangeable. She's not refusing to learn, you are.
You mean the quote that said that homonyms are both homophones (sound alikes) and homographs (spelled alikes)?

Yes. I saw that. I also maintain that a homophone is not always a homonym, therefore making them two seperate things.
post #48 of 122
From that list, I'd guess that ds just knows the math ones. Let me grab him and ask...

Quote:
The American Revolution
Says he learned about this from the Magic Tree House

Other than that, he just knew the math ones.
post #49 of 122
My neice is in second grade in public school; Last night, part of her homework was, "Count by 2's for someone at home. How high did you count?" She spat off numbers to 110 and then stopped to write it down; she can count by 2's indefinately, but I suppose she'd had enough.

I guess that much of that stuff, if it *does* happen in public school, happens at the beginning of second grade/end of first to an extent. I know, though, that my neices did not learn the historical bits from school, but from BeanBean the Obsessive.
post #50 of 122
My kids knew some of that, but not all of it. It looks like an interesting list, but I don't think it's something you need to worry about. SOme of that is simple common sense that will come in time.

I don't think of that list as arbitrary factiods, however. Or soemthing you need to know in any particular time frame. However, knowing who the Incas etc were is important, imo, and I would probably introduce that kind of information through stories and maps etc.

As for fractions and such, my pizza-lovers all knew at a very early age that an 1/8th of a pizza is much, much less than 1/2 of a pizz, even though 8 is greater than 2. And tally marks? That's about the easiest way even the littlest child can keep track of how many eggs the hens have laid, and you have to sell. To me, that's not something arbitrary to know...it's quite helpful, and no drilling necessary.
post #51 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizawill View Post
nope you didn't forget!! - that list is still rediculous imo. i am a structured homeschooler, and i follow a scope and sequence and i buy curriculum.
!
I suck at spelling. I really do. I make all kind of thoughtless errors and many typos. But I keep seeing ridiculous spelled with an e, and it's spelled with an i.

No snark-- now go proof my posts and die laughing. I sometimes shame myself.
post #52 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
But I keep seeing ridiculous spelled with an e, and it's spelled with an i.
I see that particular spelling so often I am wondering if I am missing some cultural contextual shift in spelling - ie some popular cultural character is saying it as REEEE-dic-u-lous and that's why people are spelling it that way. I'm an old fogey and popular culture pretty much passes me by.

sorry - ot to the thread.

My 6 y/o kids have been exposed to most of the items on the list or their Canadian equivalent but i doubt they would be able to recall all the details of each item (math skills aside).

I like Rebecca Rupp's books as a suggestion for things to cover and ways to do that, and as a way to see what a comprehensive/well rounded/academic (choose the least offensive term) might look like.

Karen
post #53 of 122
Oh my gosh, noooo!

My kids are fiercely bright and interesting people. Maybe it's just a difference of perspective or life philosophy of whatever, but I just don't see the point in their heads being filled with such things, they've got far more important things to do with their time and to think about.

It may just be that I have difference standards. In any case, IMO, academic-type stuff doesn't start naturally happening for most kids until nine or ten years of age. For instance, I listen to NPR on the radio a lot when we're in the car; it's only my oldest (ten years old) who's recently begun really listening and asking questions. So he knows now about George Bush and the war in Iraq, and is starting to understand some things about how our government works. The questions come up naturally, and the answers do too. It's relevant, a part of life. I have a hard time believing that for the average six-year-old child, blathering on about the details of our government to her is going to make sense and stick. My six-year-old is interested in Strawberry Shortcake. Personally I think it would be ridiculous to try to make her be involved in the conversation about George Bush, given that she's not already drawn to it -- obviously that's a sign, in itself, that she's not ready for it.

I'm college-educated and a skilled writer, let's get that straight. And I don't know what a homonym is, although I'm sure I was told at some point, 5th-grade english maybe? Okay, I looked it up. It turns out that I do know what a homonym is; I just didn't know (or recall) the official term for it. And because I don't need to know it, I'm sure that if you ask me next week I'll have forgotten. Given that, why on earth would I need to burden my six-year-old's brain with the information?

Really, to be blunt, I think this list is just plain silly.
post #54 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
It looks like an interesting list, but I don't think it's something you need to worry about.
I almost spit out coffee from laughing just now when reading the not "something you need to worry about" part - not because it was funny, but just thinking of how silly it is that we even find ourselves discussing whether or not one should have to worry about whether a six year old knows all that. For him to be expected to really understand the size and complexity and relationships within the people, the politics, the motivations and causes, the history, the cultures, the world - all the interrelated pieces that go into making up the more realistic picture of what any one civilization or war was about... They have so much to be learning about their own relatively new-to-them little world around them!

- Lillian
post #55 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
I suck at spelling. I really do. I make all kind of thoughtless errors and many typos. But I keep seeing ridiculous spelled with an e, and it's spelled with an i.

No snark-- now go proof my posts and die laughing. I sometimes shame myself.

you're right, haha, and i actually know that now that ya mention it. when i type on MDC - i just let it fly & i don't proofread ever and i have a million typos. check my backposts - you'll have a blast finding all of my mistake. thank god for spellcheck - that's all i gotta say.
post #56 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds View Post
I'm college-educated and a skilled writer, let's get that straight. And I don't know what a homonym is

ha ha, i graduated with honors from college, and i don't know (nor do i give a hoot) what the 3 types of rock are!

....not to mention i can't spell, which has already been pointed out!
post #57 of 122
- Fractions Well, he can cut a piece of cake in half, and then insist that he wants the "bigger half" LOL Or he knows that if we have 12 Andes Candies, and there are 4 of us, then we each get three. Though I guess that's more division than fractions? If I wrote out fractions like this: 1/4, 1/3, etc, then no, he would not have a clue.
- What a synonyn, antonym, and hononym is Not by name, but he certainly knows the opposite of big is small, and that "large" and "big" mean the same thing. He knows the difference between the type of bat that flies and the type of bat that you swing at a ball.
The definition of democracy, the duties of the President, the meaning behind symbols such as the flag, the American Eagle and the Statue of Liberty ummm... no. Though when GWB was on CBS earlier today, he did say "MOOOM, the President is on!" So he knows who he is, but not really what he does. He knows several countries' flags, though I suppose he does not know the meaning.
- The literary terms "plot, setting, characters, hero and heroine" Not the terms themselves, but he can tell me what a story is about, where it took place, who the characters were, and who is the "good guy" or the "bad guy."
- Count to 100 by 2s, 5s and 10s He can count by 10s to 100 and by 2s to at least 10, but I only know that because he plays with numbers a lot... I've never quizzed him or anything.
- Use tally marks for counting No, he does it in his head, uses his fingers, or maybe Cuisenaire rods.....
- Understand place value for 1s 10s and 100s 1s and 10s yes, but not hundreds.
- Know about famous Americans - Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Susan B. Anthony, etc.- mmm, not so much, but he knows who other people are, so I'm not too concerned.
The Maya, Aztec and Inca civilizations no, but he does know a lot about pirates, knights, the ancient Romans, etc.
- The American Revolution no. He knows about slavery and the Civil War, though.
- Major world religions- no, right now he's learning about his own religion.
The world's major oceans, continents, and northern and southern hemispheres Ummm... he knows North America and Europe, for sure. Oceans, I don't know. I've never mentioned hemispheres, so I don't know if he knows about them.
- Animal classification (classes, families, etc.) no. He does know that a wolf is a member of the "dog family" though, and that lions and tigers are related to cats.
- Three major kinds of rocks I have no idea if he knows this. I think we read a Magic Schoolbus book about this once, but I don't know if he retained the information.
- Rhythm, melody, pitch, dynamics, tempo and timbre nah, though he does like music.
- Strings, bass, woodwinds, percussion do you mean which are which? Or actually playing them? He likes playing differnet kinds of instruments, but aside from their actual names (recorder, guitar, drums), he wouldn't know which musical family they belonged to.

He also knows a lot about stuff that isn't on the list. Wow, I just made myself feel pretty good about his knowledge and how it correlates to the expectations of schooled children. Ha!
post #58 of 122
My dd is a young 7, just turned 7 last month so I will answer.

- Fractions
* Yes, halves, thirds and 4ths

- What a synonyn, antonym, and hononym is
* we have talked about synonyms and antonyms in the context of mad libs, but if I asked her what the words themselves meant she would probably not be able to tell me

The definition of democracy, the duties of the President, the meaning behind symbols such as the flag, the American Eagle and the Statue of Liberty
* Nope, we are much more into ancient history than american history/government. She can tell you how to prepare a mummy though and about the pharoahs of ancient egypt

- The literary terms "plot, setting, characters, hero and heroine"
* Not if asked those terms, no

- Count to 100 by 2s, 5s and 10s
* Yes

- Use tally marks for counting
* Yes

- Understand place value for 1s 10s and 100s
Eh. So-so. We have done math pages on those and she does get them all right once we go over them, but the next time, I have to explain it all over again because she hasn't really set the concept to memory yet


- Know about famous Americans - Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Susan B. Anthony, etc.
* Again, no. But she can tell about famous ancients. And Johnny Appleseed. She has been very into Johnny Appleseed lately

- The Maya, Aztec and Inca civilizations
* Not yet - we haven't gotten that far through history yet

- The American Revolution
* Not a single thing

- Major world religions
* Don't get my dd started on religions. I don't even know where she got her views, because it is not something I ever talk about ...

- The world's major oceans, continents, and northern and southern hemispheres
* Some, but not too much

- Animal classification (classes, families, etc.)
* Yes, she is very good with animal classifications

- Three major kinds of rocks
* No, but she can identify a bunch of rocks

- Rhythm, melody, pitch, dynamics, tempo and timbre
* Nope, and neither can I, lol

- Strings, bass, woodwinds, percussion
* We went to a workshop on this last winter, and she got to try them all out but I doubt she remembers them


And you know what? It is all fine with me
post #59 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2kbeth View Post
And you know what? It is all fine with me

Oh no!

My kids have so much working knoweldge of all manner of things. My 8 yr old can absolutely discuss many aspects of religions. Well, ok, not as a professor of the subject, but certainly with information, througtfulness and introspection). She can also discuss the disenfrachisement of Native Americans etc. And not that I want to throw that gifted word around... but kids like mine (yours? others? ) are doing a different kind of pushing that other kids might not do. My kids love to play and build stuff in the barn, they love to run with the hens...they love to make tents..play in the stream on our property, catch peepers etc., .but they also have this craving for ideas and things to discuss.

It makes us seem that we are pushing, when in fact, they *want* to know more and more and more. And more. Always more. Her fav thing is Big Ideas. Emotions, how people think, how they live, lived, how they are treated, how we treat each other, where we come from... all of that. . She is a soiologist/anthropologist at heart. Wondering how much to offer, how others will think of us-- those are occupational hazards as an unschooler/relaxed schooler. "Did you actually *teach* her that?!" (Uh, no, not really,. But she is a sponge).

"Honey, don't read that. Go chase butterflies". And how many times a day can you feed free ranging chickens? lol But then I realize...if I say don't do something...that's not unschooling or repsectful.

I mean it's not hard to understand what a homonym is. And you might want to know about rocks if your father is a ntionally recognized sediment specialist. If one has parents who are excited about learning, and read to you, you get excited. Wanting to know about Mayan civilixations is a cool thing, really.
post #60 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
I mean it's not hard to understand what a homonym is. And you might want to know about rocks if your father is a ntionally recognized sediment specialist. If one has parents who are excited about learning, and read to you, you get excited. Wanting to know about Mayan civilixations is a cool thing, really.
this thread is in regard to whether or not a 6 year old should know the things listed - not whether or not they are important and should be learned over time.

it amazes me that even homeschooling threads have an underlying tone of comparison when it comes to our children....and with each other for that matter.
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