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Leaving sleeping children in the car for under 3 minutes - Page 8

post #141 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkrawkmama27 View Post
think of all the people out there who have their noses in everyone elses business, and would have no problem reporting you to the cops or cps. Its just better to play it safe these days.
But if it isn't illegal then there isn't anything to report.
post #142 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmel23 View Post
I think it is against the law here in California to leave children in a car and enter a store. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to go into the store and back to the car--it doesn't matter what the weather, etc. If I had seen the kids in the car, you would have a broken window--I wouldn't have hesitated to break the window and get the kids out.

I am sorry that your au pair was so frightened, but you should take this as an eye opener, and make sure she is familiar with all the laws and cultural customs of the US in relation to children.

and you would have a bill for my broken window and also vandalism charges.
post #143 of 407
I have and will leave my children in the car when I deem it appropriate and support others decision to take thier DC out of the car at evey instance it doesn't make me or other parents better but different

If the OP did not have a problem with what the Au Pair did then their is no debate to be had if it is right or not to me the issue was about the self appointed child cop who felt it was her right to discipline the Au Pair. This person to me needs to be very careful in who they approach because if it would have been me she would have heard an earful from me
post #144 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyGrace View Post
Kentucky and Missouri have laws that go into effect in case of injury, and legislation is pending in Alabama, Arizona, Hawaii, Iowa, Kansas, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, and Virginia.
Yes, that's right, but the Ky and MO laws are basically punitive - iow, it's not against the law unless something bad happens (which isn't the case here). Pending legislation is just that, pending -- it is NOT against the law in those states as of now, so the PP was mistaken in saying the Au Pair broke the law.EDIT TO CORRECT: The Au Pair was in Virginia, where it is not against the law.
post #145 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingMinnesota View Post
and you would have a bill for my broken window and also vandalism charges.
Not to mention kidnapping charges.
post #146 of 407
I use my judgment. I've left DD in the car, in her carseat, right in front of the drycleaners while I picked up my drycleaning. Dry cleaners has two big windows and they always have their doors wide open. I keep my eye on the car and her in it while I am in there. When she figures out how to get of of the car seat, I won't do it anymore. I wouldn't do it if I thought the day were too hot, too cold, too sunny, if there were a strange person loitering in front, etc...

The post office is right next door, but they don't have big windows or an open door. So I always bring her in there with me. Again, I use my judgment.
post #147 of 407
People who think sleeping kids in a locked car within view of the windows of a shop for a couple of minutes when the weather isn't hot are in danger need to read the book Protecting the Gift to get help them get a handle on where fear is really warranted. That is simply not a dangerous situation. Children are almost never kidnapped by strangers, and it wouldn't have happened if the car was locked anyway.
post #148 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaffyDaphne View Post
FWIW, it's against the law in California , Connecticut , Florida , Illinois , Louisiana , Maryland, Nebraska , Nevada, Pennsylvania , Tennessee (Effective July 1, 2007), Texas , and Washington. It is not currently against the law in the other 38 states.
In Washington it is illegal to leave a minor child in a RUNNING vehicle...
Quote:
Washington State Law 46.61.685

Leaving Children unattended in standing vehicle with motor running-Penalty.

It is unlawful for any person, while operating or in charge of a vehicle, to park or willfully allow such vehicle to stand upon a public highway or in a public place with its motor running, leaving a minor child or children under the age of sixteen years unattended in the vehicle.
Any person violating the provisions of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor. Upon a subsequent conviction for a violation of this section, the department shall revoke the operator's license of such person.
LINK

In Texas it is against the law to leave a child for more than 5 minutes.
Quote:
Texas State Law Codes 22

Leaving a Child in a Vehicle

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly leaves a child in a motor vehicle for longer than five minutes, knowing that the child is:
(1) younger than seven years of age; and
(2) not attended by and individual in the vehicle who is 14 years of age or older.

(b) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
** If the child is injured the charge is then child endangerment which is a felony. The penalties are six months to two years in jail and a fine up to $10,000.
California's law...
Quote:
California State Law SB 255

SB 255 (Speier)
Unattended Child in Motor Vehicle Act “Kaitlyn’s Law”
California Vehicle Code Sections 15620, 15630, 15632

15620. (a) A parent, legal guardian, or other person responsible for a child who is 6 years of age or younger may not leave that child inside a motor vehicle without being subject to the supervision of a person who is 12 years of age or older, under either of the following circumstances:

(1) Where there are conditions that present a significant risk to the child's health or safety.

(2) When the vehicle’s engine is running or the vehicle's keys are in the ignition, or both.
That's just a few of the states that you mentioned it was "illegal"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaffyDaphne View Post
Not to mention kidnapping charges.
No kidding...If she did that to my car though I'd 1) See her approaching my car and attempting to break the window 2)Assume she had ill intentions and would use whatever force necessary to get her away from my kids and my car.
post #149 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingMinnesota View Post
In Washington it is illegal to leave a minor child in a RUNNING vehicle...

LINK

In Texas it is against the law to leave a child for more than 5 minutes.


California's law...


That's just a few of the states that you mentioned it was "illegal"...


No kidding...If she did that to my car though I'd 1) See her approaching my car and attempting to break the window 2)Assume she had ill intentions and would use whatever force necessary to get her away from my kids and my car.
Thanks for doing that, I was being lazy in not qualifying!
post #150 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorker View Post
Now, in my own personal experience, I have encountered far more craziness at my own house than anywhere in public. We recently had someone break into our landlord's trailer that is on our property, while dd and I were home. I also had a guy with a gun come around to the side of the house to find me on the deck (while dd was napping). He claimed to be an investigator and was looking for a former tenant, but showed me no credentials (but was more than happy to show me his gun) and acted suspicious. I called the police and he ended up being a bail bondsman, but it was still very scary. In that same time period, DP saw a bunch of cops walking a guy in handcuffs down our quiet residential road. We have no idea what that was about.
MAN, I miss living in Lynnwood

Kidding - FLEE SOUTH SWEET MAMA, FLEE SOUTH!
post #151 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meg Murry. View Post
I have not read all the posts, but I do say this: I do not think it was productive for the other woman to yell at your servant.

That said, I would have fired the au pair right then. No references. Period.

Sorry if it's the custom in Brazil. It's against the law in America. It's also against the law for very good reasons. I'm sure the other posters have done a fine and expressive job of explaining what those reasons are.

It's not against the law in the state where the OP lives, so that's incorrect. I"m sure the au pair won't be doing this again, and now understands this cultural difference. And she won't do it again for fear of being yelled at, not because there aren't situations where it is safe.

So you would fire this young woman, who was excellent with your children, make your chldren go through the trauma of losing an important person in their lives to whom they've grown accustomed and probably love and feel attached to, and send this woman off in a strange country with no hope for future work as an au pair? No second chances, no kind requests to not repeat this situation, no helpful suggestions to use a fast-food drive through? I understand you would be protectiong your children, but I just don't understand this absolute coldness and lack of forgiveness for an honest mistake (which would not be considered a mistake by everyone, btw) based on cultural differences, not negligence.
post #152 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by candiland View Post
Now we're seeing a generation of kids so overprotected they are like animals in cages afraid of their own shadows.
I think that is what is happening here more than anything. I have found that "that" generation is the ones that would NEVER leave their kids in the car.

I had a friend from South Africa laugh at me because my DD car seat was RF. She said "Is that what THE LAW tells you to do?"

I had a similar experience as the OP. I ran into the corner market....could see my kids...plain sight and all. They were no more than a sidewalk's width away. The woman in the store said "did you know it's against the law to leave your kids in the car?" I said "Ummm...yeah, but they are right there in plain sight." I started to walk out and the mama bear in me wouldn't do it. I turned to her and said, "it's against THE LAW to go over 25 mph down main street, but I'll bet YOU do it, don't you?" She didn't know what to say........
post #153 of 407
The mama's who would NEVER leave their kids in the car would cringe if they came to my town. I think 90% of the moms here leave their kids in the car. I wouldn't have done it if I still lived in Orange County, CA, but I will here. It's purely circumstantial and all that good stuff.
post #154 of 407
My son wishes that I'd never left him alone in the car.
post #155 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubfam View Post
But if it isn't illegal then there isn't anything to report.
The thing is, a parental decision doesn't have to be illegal for CPS to stick their noses in. As an example, it's not illegal anywhere (and is even condoned by the AAP) to breastfeed a child for as long as both mother and child desire -- but that hasn't stopped CPS from getting involved in some cases of extended breastfeeding.

That's why it alarms me whenever anyone says they're quick to call CPS when they see parenting practices they don't agree with. Such a call can cause serious problems and stress for the family. I'm not saying it's that common for workers to come in and snatch the kids -- but stress comes with ALL forms of CPS intervention, even if it never comes down to the worst-case scenario.

Now, the police are another matter. As a pp mentioned, they're not as likely to get worked up or file a report on someone who hasn't clearly endangered their child.

I still wouldn't want a call made on ME, whether to the police or CPS. Which is why I started putting my toddler in shorts to play in the yard last summer, rather than letting her run naked like the summer before. I'd just started hearing too much about people being trigger-happy with their cell phones.
post #156 of 407
Good point, Mammal mama

CPS intervention is VERY scary...
post #157 of 407
One time, I had my dd, my two pugs, my purse, diaper bag, starbucks, fist of cash (all kinds of currency!), a stack of magazines, and a handful of jelly beans and a bumbo, and I STILL managed to bring all into the 7-11. So there! The rest of you hardly measure up to that.
































Seriously,I've left dd in the car before if I need to run into the gas station and can see the windows. I also leave her in the garage in the car if I forget something. And she is just as precious to me as your children are to you. I think we are all adults and can probably assess risk just fine.
post #158 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3boobykins View Post
It's not against the law in the state where the OP lives, so that's incorrect. I"m sure the au pair won't be doing this again, and now understands this cultural difference. And she won't do it again for fear of being yelled at, not because there aren't situations where it is safe.

So you would fire this young woman, who was excellent with your children, make your chldren go through the trauma of losing an important person in their lives to whom they've grown accustomed and probably love and feel attached to, and send this woman off in a strange country with no hope for future work as an au pair? No second chances, no kind requests to not repeat this situation, no helpful suggestions to use a fast-food drive through? I understand you would be protectiong your children, but I just don't understand this absolute coldness and lack of forgiveness for an honest mistake (which would not be considered a mistake by everyone, btw) based on cultural differences, not negligence.
If she puts my child or children at risk by leaving them in a car unattended for anything except an unforeseeable emergency? Absolutely, I would fire her. And no, I am not particularly moved by the factor of being in a foreign country. Moving here, I presume, was her choice. If I am hiring a servant to be a paid substitute parent to my child, I expect that that person do so responsibly and exercise good judgment. That is why I am paying them. If she wishes to risk her own children's safety, that is her decision. If she risks my children's, I can no longer trust that her judgment is reliable and her decisions are responsible.
post #159 of 407
Oh, I should add that I wouldn't want an employee of mine making that decision regarding my children. I don't see it as a fireable offense to me, but i would talk to her about it and ask her that she not do it again. If you have the good relationship with her that the op apparently has, I think that would do it.
post #160 of 407
I should point out to the whiner mcwhinersons who are snarking, "oh, you'd have a bill for breaking a window and i'd press charges for kidnapping!"

What would actually happen if you took your eyes off your child long enough for a strange person to approach your car, look inside and see unattended children, see if they were awake/old enough to open the door, then hem and haw about what to do, then look around one last time to see if any adult was in the immediate area, then find something to smash in a window, then smash in said window, then remove children from unfamiliar carseats, is that the police would arrest you for child abandonment and would laugh at your attempted vandalism charges. As would any judge.
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