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Leaving sleeping children in the car for under 3 minutes - Page 10

post #181 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by woobysma View Post
oooohh! there's a tree-abandonment thread, too! Where is it?
There is now.
post #182 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
There is now.
I'm so game, but I have to go pick up a carpet shampooer

Start it and I'll be back in a jiffy . Make sure you address the issue of being abandoned in fruit trees...... I say it's OK because there's food up there.

These would be ORGANIC fruit trees, if that makes any difference.
post #183 of 407
When I was about 7 (that is 31 yrs ago, different times...), my mom took me on a group camping trip at a campground one weekend. Sunday morning as we and about 50 other families are leaving the campground, my mom decides she has to pee and parks the car, running, in the middle of the little road in front of the bathhouse, and runs in to pee while I wait in the running car. It was a narrow little road so nobody else could get by. I'm sitting in the front seat with my seatbelt on, and an annoyed man I do not know gets in the car and starts driving it. He pulled up the road a little to where there was space on the side where he could park it. He got out and told me "tell your mom not to block the road next time !" and leaves.

She came out of the bathroom, looked for the car. Found it, gets in, and asked me if I moved the car. No, I was seven and it was a huge Vista Cruiser - I could not possibly have seen over the hood or reached the pedals ! I told her some man moved it and was mad that she blocked the road. Her only concern - she was annoyed that people were "so impatient these days ". No concern whatsoever that some strange man could have driven me off to who knows where.

Different times huh ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
So I am sitting in the car with it running at the pump while dh goes in to pay. I am not really paying attention to anything and all of a sudden some strange guy hops in the driver's seat and starts to drive. I FREAKED!
post #184 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by amandaleigh37 View Post
Personally I wouldn't do it...
I thought it was against the law?
It's only against the law to leave children under a certain age UNSUPERVISED in a car. If she could see the car from where she was they were NOT unsupervised.
post #185 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubfam View Post
But if it isn't illegal then there isn't anything to report.
It doesnt matter. I just read a thread on here about someone reporting a mother to CPS, and CPS responding because she is not in a "normal marriage" and CPS is investigating to see if she is a fit mother! And in some states it is against the law, or even if it isnt law enforcement can choose to do what they feel is right in certain situations:
http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/2006/0...-car.htmldwhat

http://www.kidsandcars.org/incidents...idsinCars.html

http://www.ci.aliso-viejo.ca.us/files/kaitlins_law.pdf

Those appear to be laws that would make it illegal to leave a child under the age of 6 from being left unattended in a car.

Even if it is not illegal I still would not chance it.
post #186 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
The thing is, a parental decision doesn't have to be illegal for CPS to stick their noses in. As an example, it's not illegal anywhere (and is even condoned by the AAP) to breastfeed a child for as long as both mother and child desire -- but that hasn't stopped CPS from getting involved in some cases of extended breastfeeding.

That's why it alarms me whenever anyone says they're quick to call CPS when they see parenting practices they don't agree with. Such a call can cause serious problems and stress for the family. I'm not saying it's that common for workers to come in and snatch the kids -- but stress comes with ALL forms of CPS intervention, even if it never comes down to the worst-case scenario.

Now, the police are another matter. As a pp mentioned, they're not as likely to get worked up or file a report on someone who hasn't clearly endangered their child.

I still wouldn't want a call made on ME, whether to the police or CPS. Which is why I started putting my toddler in shorts to play in the yard last summer, rather than letting her run naked like the summer before. I'd just started hearing too much about people being trigger-happy with their cell phones.

That is what I was getting at! All they need is 1 call, no matter if you are in the right or not, there are soooooo many people out there that are ready to call because if a mama is not doing what they feel is in the child's best interest then she is wrong and a horrible parent and should have her children taken away. People are so quick to pass judgement and to try to rescue a poor child, that all there needs to be is that one moment when a mama does go into the store and can still see her sleeping dc in the car, yet the stranger does not know that, they dont know how long she has been gone, they are ready to call. Then that poor mother has to deal with CPS watching her every move!

Also, I just want to say, I am not here to pass judgement on anyone! I am just here to post and learn more about mothering from other mothers, and to share expierences and get advice from other mamas. I never thought I would see so many nasty posts though, some of them are so demeaning!
post #187 of 407
FACT: (regarding those posting to this thread)

The mamas here who would never leave a child in the car love their children to the moon and back infinite times.

The mamas here who would and have left their a child in the car while in sight love their children to the moon and back infinite times.

What we think is best in a given situation is not always the same, but the love is.
post #188 of 407
I wouldn't leave my kids in the car.

But then, I wouldn't allow a stranger to drive my kids around or take them to the park either, so, I realise that I'm a little more uptight than most people when it comes to that stuff.

Given that admitted uptightness, I do think there are some things that can happen to children while left in the car unattended.

Stranger abduction is actually the LAST worry on my list. This is an event that is extremely rare and over-blown on our infotainment news media.

I would be worried about what the kids could do to themselves in the car.

The child could get out of the seat and stand on the power window button on the armrest, hurting a limb.... that tragically happened to a toddler a few months back. Though, I realize that IS quite rare.

The one thing that I would be MOST concerned about is the toddler getting out of the seat and climbing into the front of the car. They could easily pull the car out of gear or release the emergency brake.

I DID THIS when I was three years old. My Dad was working on his truck in the yard (we lived on a plateau in the woods) and he ran into the house for TWO MINUTES to grab a tool he needed. In those two minutes I climbed into the truck, and "played car."

I grabbed the signal-light switcher on the left hand side and the gear shift on the right. I moved them up and down, pulling the gear shift into neutral or drive.... the truck was parked on a slight decline, and it rolled forward.... through the fence, and then end-over-end down the cliff. It got hung up on an old tree stump grill-down, box-up. The stump kept the truck from plummeting down a sheer drop into a canyon.

This all happened in under two minutes. I was luckily bounced under the dashboard on the first flip, so I wasn't bashed around much. I survived with only nine stitches on my head and a concussion.

I remember it vividly.

I did a similar thing as an adult a few years ago.

I drove a company SUV over to my FIL's shop to visit DH. I stopped in front of the building and got out. It was a standard and I accidentally parked it in neutral with the Emergency brake on. The E-brake failed, and the vehicle rolled backwards OUT of the driveway and across the street. Thankfully, no cars were coming, no children were walking behind it and no children were strapped in the car.

This was a mistake.

But, mistakes happen, accidents happen, that's why they are called accidents.

I wouldn't have yelled at this woman. Yelling rarely accomplishes anything. But, I would have waited by the car until she returned and told her that I was worried about the children because they were alone.

This question comes up every few months on MDC, and my opinion is the same each time.

Stranger abduction is way out there on the possibility spectrum, but, accidents do happen when children are left alone in vehicles.

Trin.
post #189 of 407
I've done it before, and I would do it again.

I will leave Alivia alone in my car outside my house to run in and grab something (whether she is sleeping or not). We live in a very safe neighborhood, and if someone drives by my house, it is either someone who lives in my house, our neighbor, or someone who is lost.

I will also run in and pay for gas (I DO use pay-at-the-pump whenever I can) or something similar IF I can see her at all times.
post #190 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3boobykins View Post
FACT: (regarding those posting to this thread)

The mamas here who would never leave a child in the car love their children to the moon and back infinite times.

The mamas here who would and have left their a child in the car while in sight love their children to the moon and back infinite times.

What we think is best in a given situation is not always the same, but the love is.
Very true. And in response to the pp who said neither group is going to force the other to change its ways: I agree, and that never was my goal in any of my posts about this.

I'm a firm believer in respecting each child's parents as the parents of that child. Rather than trying to persuade any parent to change her parenting, my goal on this thread has been to persuade people to re-think their roles as concerned citizens.

It's scary to me that so many are itching to call and report others when they disagree with their parenting. I've heard some advise (not on this thread) that it's not even our job to decide if a particular concern is reportable: whatever it is, just call it in, and let CPS sort it out. Very scary. I hope it never happens to you (general you).

I'd just like to see more of a basic attitude of respect toward parents, and a lessening of the current societal impulse to make everyone comply with our standards.
post #191 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmel23 View Post
It doesn't matter how long it takes you to go into the store and back to the car--it doesn't matter what the weather, etc. If I had seen the kids in the car, you would have a broken window--I wouldn't have hesitated to break the window and get the kids out.
I can certainly understand this if it's hot and sunny and you're worried about the kids. But what earthly reason other than out and out meanness could you possibly have for breaking someone's window and traumatizing the kids when the weather is not posing an overheating danger, as in the OP's situation? If you're concerned, then call the police and/or stand there and watch the kids to be sure they're okay until someone comes back - that would be the nice thing to do. I've tried but I can only come up with one single reason for breaking someone's window if the kids aren't in danger, and that reason is pure meanness.
post #192 of 407
Our 4-yo DS and a 5-yo friend did this a month ago....in a new-model minivan in which it is supposedly not "possible" to get out of park without the keys in it.....but they did, and the van rolled back out of a driveway, across a street, and came to stop in the yard across the street.

Our 4-yo DS was playing at a friend's house while I made a quick trip to a store with our younger son . The friend's mom had assured me they would be playing in the basement and her DH would be keeping an eye on them. The DH said he let them go outside alone for "just a second" to get a toy that had been left in the van. Our DS says his friend "pulled the stick thing really hard with his strong muscles and made the van start driving". The boys went back into the house and didn't tell anyone what had happened. A few minutes later, a kid on a bike rang the doorbell and told the DH that their car was halfway in the street. The DH came running out, just as I drove around the corner on my way back there.

The friend's parents are up in arms that their van was able to be taken out of park by a 5-yo when there is supposed to be a safety feature that makes this "impossible". To me the larger issue is that the kids were allowed outside in an unfenced area unsupervised for ANY length of time, at a house on a busy corner, much less having access to an unlocked car. Obviously the DH wasn't paying much attention to what they were doing...they rolled a car across a street and he never noticed.

Needless to say, our DS is not allowed to play over there anymore unless DH or I stay because I don't believe they provide adequate supervision to keep him safe. When this friend wants to play now, I either invite him over here or take him to the park with us.

I also had a similar surprise ride in a car when I was about six. A friend who lived across the street and I were waiting in their car for her mom to come and and drive us to a swimming pool. My friend decided to take the car out of park. It rolled down their driveway, across the street, over our mailbox and stopped in our front bushes. Granted this was in the 70s before there were "safety features" meant to prevent this sort of thing. But I recently learned that those features aren't that trustworthy anyway.

Tragically, young children have actually died after closing electric windows around their necks by leaning on the window button while their heads were out the window. The new window buttons are supposed to be designed to prevent this from happening, but I would not be willing to trust my child's safety to this design change. Our kids LOVE to play with all the buttons in our van and I know it's possible for them to get hurt while doing this without supervision.

I don't believe it is safe to leave a young and mobile child alone with access to a car, running or not, even at home, trusting that the "safety features" will be enough to keep the child from being able to do anything dangerous. For me to feel they are safe, I don't want to be more than a few feet away and I want to be able to see everything they are doing and have most of my attention be on them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinitty View Post
The one thing that I would be MOST concerned about is the toddler getting out of the seat and climbing into the front of the car. They could easily pull the car out of gear or release the emergency brake.

I DID THIS when I was three years old.
post #193 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinitty View Post
Stranger abduction is actually the LAST worry on my list. This is an event that is extremely rare and over-blown on our infotainment news media.

I would be worried about what the kids could do to themselves in the car.
Thank you. Please don't assume that anyone here who wouldn't do this is thinking only about criminals.

BTW - (in contradiction to DaffyDaphne's list of states with laws on this) in Mass. there is a law against this for paid childcare providers. The law is cut and dry: "A caregiver must never leave a child unattended in a vehicle"
post #194 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainyday View Post
I can certainly understand this if it's hot and sunny and you're worried about the kids. But what earthly reason other than out and out meanness could you possibly have for breaking someone's window and traumatizing the kids when the weather is not posing an overheating danger, as in the OP's situation? If you're concerned, then call the police and/or stand there and watch the kids to be sure they're okay until someone comes back - that would be the nice thing to do. I've tried but I can only come up with one single reason for breaking someone's window if the kids aren't in danger, and that reason is pure meanness.
:

I got the car in reverse when I was about 7 and my mom was in the store. I don't think that my 2yo or my buckled in kids (now that you are supposed to wear a buckle!) would be able to do something like that in the minute it takes to jump out of the car with you in sight to do something quickly.
post #195 of 407
Okay, those stories might have me convinced. Those are reasonable, possible, actual dangers (not so much for an infant, so I'm still okay for awhile I guess )
They make sense, unlike some of the other reasons that have been offered.
post #196 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainyday View Post
I've tried but I can only come up with one single reason for breaking someone's window if the kids aren't in danger, and that reason is pure meanness.
Exactly! Also, what if the children get injured by the broken glass?
post #197 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by woobysma View Post
MAN, I miss living in Lynnwood

Kidding - FLEE SOUTH SWEET MAMA, FLEE SOUTH!
Aww, shucks. Hehe. How far South, exactly? I'd be more than happy to live within Seattle city limits if I could afford a house this nice there! We're in a 3bd 2ba rental, which is NOT something I can afford any further south. Unless you're talking Olympia, or something. But we gotta stay within reasonable driving distance of token major software company, so this is about the cheapest it gets within that span. And, y'know, besides all the weirdness I just described in our neighbourhood recently, and all of our antisocial suburban neighbours, and the fact that there's not much to do around here-- it's not all that bad!

Hi. Off topic rambles, wee!
post #198 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by prothyraia View Post
Okay, those stories might have me convinced. Those are reasonable, possible, actual dangers (not so much for an infant, so I'm still okay for awhile I guess )
They make sense, unlike some of the other reasons that have been offered.
I think it's interesting that people are going on and on about how neglectful it is to leave a child in a car for three minutes for "convenience", yet no one thinks about the hundreds/thousands of miles a child spends in a car each year (a far more potentially dangerous situation) for "convenience".

I do it. It's much easier to just put Katie in the car, go do the shopping/errands/playgroup/etc. than to find someone to watch her in our home every time I need to go someplace. I toss my daughter into a potentially life-threatening situation every time we go somewhere in the car. It's not necessity; short of a true medical emergency, I probably could find *someone* to watch her. But, convenience wins out. Yet, as long as she's buckled into her car seat, no one flips out about it.

I think people really need to think about what neglect and child abandonment is, and think about when the tossing about of that word is warranted. I think the fear-mongering and self-righteousness is sorely misplaced, and, unfortunately, some family is going to suffer the effects of it.
post #199 of 407
Electric windows don't work if the car is off and the keys aren't in it.
post #200 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by katheek77 View Post
I think it's interesting that people are going on and on about how neglectful it is to leave a child in a car for three minutes for "convenience", yet no one thinks about the hundreds/thousands of miles a child spends in a car each year (a far more potentially dangerous situation) for "convenience".
....
I think people really need to think about what neglect and child abandonment is, and think about when the tossing about of that word is warranted. I think the fear-mongering and self-righteousness is sorely misplaced, and, unfortunately, some family is going to suffer the effects of it.

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