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question about Catholic and birth control - Page 5

post #81 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
Also, I guess I am confused as to why the Catholic church should have a FIRM idea exactly what happens to unbaptized babies or non-Catholics or ANYONE for that matter and how this can be compared to birth control? By the grace of G-d yes, but I think it would be rather presumptious to declare to know EXACTLY what happens and be able to give someone a step by step outline.
I think it falls back into people thinking that Catholics think the Church is supernatural and knows everything about everything, if that makes sense.
post #82 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyL View Post
No form of birth control is licit in the Catholic Church; this includes hormonal, chemical (spermicide), or barrier methods.

There would be no need for "safe" sex, because the only circumstance under which one should be having sex is within the Sacrament of marriage.
Interesting thread.

I'm wondering what they would say about a spouse who has an STD, especially something like HIV. Would they allow a condom or just say total abstenence? Just curious. Because there can be couples who are married, even married virgins and one gets HIV from someting else, transfusion, drug use (sharing needles) or whatever.
post #83 of 107
oops, I skipped a couple posts and just noticed some others asked a similar question.
post #84 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovebug View Post
not in my book. when sperm+egg= baby anything to remove that in my book is abortion.

the second they meet a baby is made! i dont need a heart beat or implantation to take place to tell me otherwise!


ETA: i dont use BC because of my thought of BC causing miscarriage or "in my book" a form of abortion. and yes i am Catholic
post #85 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb View Post
I think it falls back into people thinking that Catholics think the Church is supernatural and knows everything about everything, if that makes sense.
Yes... yes it does...
post #86 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb View Post
Let me know if you find it!
I couldn't find it. I did find one reference on ewtn but it wasn't even worth quoting as a source. Here are some links you can use to draw your own conclusions.

This reaffirms that life begins at conception.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...n-life_en.html
"The human being is to be respected and treated as a person from the moment of conception; and therefore from that same moment his rights as a person must be recognized, among which in the first place is the inviolable right of every innocent human being to life."

This explains the doctrine of double effects.

http://www.asa3.org/asa/PSCF/2004/PSCF9-04Mannoia.pdf
"First, the fundamental action by itself, independent of its consequences, must not be morally evil. Second, evil consequences resulting from a morally good action must not be the means to achieve a further good effect. Third, all evil consequences must be genuinely unintended, and merely tolerated if they happen. And fourth, the good consequences of the original action
must outweigh any evil consequences. To be permissible under Roman Catholic natural law, an action must conform to these four standards."

It's pretty obvious, to me anyway, that any benefit gained from having intercourse while on the pill does not outweigh the evil of abortion.

It's too bad I can't find it stated outright anywhere online. I know I read it on the web once upon a time.
post #87 of 107
Thank you, Cloak! I was just curious because I have issue with abnormal bleeding during my period, and of course they're pushing HBC (then I got pregnant right after we started talking about it, so it's irrelevant at the moment!) Of course if I went that route I'd make sure to discuss it with my priest and get all the details worked out, but it's always helpful to go in knowing as much as I can I'm hoping my period will stay away for a couple years after the baby comes so I don't have to worry about it for awhile! But I don't want to ignore it compeltely because my mom had the same problem and ended up with a hysterectomy
post #88 of 107
Katie, I go to an NFP-only gyn (he doesn't prescribe BCP to anyone for any reason), and I remember him once saying that for any health problem that doctors use BCP to treat, there is an alternative medication that works just as well or in some cases better. It's just that since most doctors prescribe BCP so frequently, they don't bother looking into the alternatives. Maybe when the time comes to address your bleeding issues you can discuss aternative medications or find a doctor who doesn't prescribe BCP at all.
post #89 of 107
I believe there is a directory on this website to find a NFP only doctor in your area. http://omsoul.com/
post #90 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by starry_mama View Post
I believe there is a directory on this website to find a NFP only doctor in your area. http://omsoul.com/
Great resource! Thanks Starry!!
post #91 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jest View Post
The article that Nova posted a link to sums it up pretty well. I wanted to add that many forms of birth control, including "the pill", are abortificients. I don't think I need to tell you that abortion goes against Catholic teaching.
ACTRULLY there is no minsion of abortion in the bible, and the thy shalt not murder does not apply because the bible doesnt consider it a life untell it is born and breaths a breath of life.
post #92 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike View Post
ACTRULLY there is no minsion of abortion in the bible, and the thy shalt not murder does not apply because the bible doesnt consider it a life untell it is born and breaths a breath of life.
Luckily for Catholics, we do not live our lives by the literal words of the bible.
post #93 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by starry_mama View Post
Luckily for Catholics, we do not live our lives by the literal words of the bible.
I beleave abortion is wrong but i dont need to read a book to find out what is right and wrong. I was merly stating that someone was saying its aginst cristion beleafs when it realy isnt a cristion beleafe its just a beleaf
post #94 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike View Post
I beleave abortion is wrong but i dont need to read a book to find out what is right and wrong. I was merly stating that someone was saying its aginst cristion beleafs when it realy isnt a cristion beleafe its just a beleaf
It's against Catholic belief... which is what this thread asked about originally... though we may have gotten off topic a few times.....
post #95 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike View Post
I beleave abortion is wrong but i dont need to read a book to find out what is right and wrong. I was merly stating that someone was saying its aginst cristion beleafs when it realy isnt a cristion beleafe its just a beleaf
Things can be Christian which are not mentioned in the Bible. Which writings belong in the Bible and which do not, just for starters.
post #96 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike View Post
I beleave abortion is wrong but i dont need to read a book to find out what is right and wrong. I was merly stating that someone was saying its aginst cristion beleafs when it realy isnt a cristion beleafe its just a beleaf

This is a thread about Catholic Christians and abortion most certainly is against Catholic beliefs.
post #97 of 107
Oh and thank you jest and starry_mama! Looks like the only doctors listed on there are hours away, but still a nice link to have. I'll definitely explore all other avenues before I'd use HBC to treat it
post #98 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb View Post
Thank you, Cloak! I was just curious because I have issue with abnormal bleeding during my period, and of course they're pushing HBC (then I got pregnant right after we started talking about it, so it's irrelevant at the moment!) Of course if I went that route I'd make sure to discuss it with my priest and get all the details worked out, but it's always helpful to go in knowing as much as I can I'm hoping my period will stay away for a couple years after the baby comes so I don't have to worry about it for awhile! But I don't want to ignore it compeltely because my mom had the same problem and ended up with a hysterectomy
Leaving the religious part of the equation aside for a moment, I would be very leery of taking HBC for any "perceived" medical benefit. A good book on the topic of HBC is "Unavoidably Dangerous" by Dr. Mayer Eisenstein. You would definitely not considering taking HBC after reading that book. It will scare the crap out of you.
post #99 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyL View Post
Leaving the religious part of the equation aside for a moment, I would be very leery of taking HBC for any "perceived" medical benefit. A good book on the topic of HBC is "Unavoidably Dangerous" by Dr. Mayer Eisenstein. You would definitely not considering taking HBC after reading that book. It will scare the crap out of you.
Well, gee, hormonal birth control helped me to conceive my son. I was infertile without it. Maybe I should tell him he shouldn't exist because hormonal birth control is supposed to have no medical benefits?
post #100 of 107
I love when Ard posts... cos we are both going through RCIA and asking the same questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb View Post
Very true. You can disagree with something but you still have to abide by it.

Anyway, Catholics are also prohibited from using IVF and any thing else that severs either the procreative or unitive aspects of sex.

That's like saying you don't understand how you can be prohibited from committing murder but are free to like or dislike spanking. Murder is a crime, spanking isn't. Some things are Dogma, some things aren't. And you're free to disagree intellectually with the Church on ABC or female ordination, but you still must abide. Likewise you could think laws against murder are wrong, but that doesn't absolve you if you get caught doing it, and it certainly doesn't make it morally acceptable. Imperfect comparisons, I know, but I'm tired and I have a headache, so take what you can get.

And I'm tired of being accused (by non-Catholics and liberal Catholics) of "blindly following" just because I happen to agree with the Church on something. Because it's just not possible to think for yourself and still agree, right? :

If I thought the Church was so dead wrong about everything she said, I'd run away screaming.
agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nova22 View Post
Yes, married couples who are infertile or elderly can still have sex. In fact, this was asked recently on the Catholic Answers forums, so I can link you to more information and everything.

Is sex a mortal sin if you can't produce offspring?


Is non-genital intercourse sinful when conception is not possible?

What does the Church teach regarding sex for older couples?
good to know... I am preg, and I was wondering if I was supposed to be shacking up with DH, and I am glad we were in teh clear


Quote:
Originally Posted by JElaineB View Post
Well, gee, hormonal birth control helped me to conceive my son. I was infertile without it. Maybe I should tell him he shouldn't exist because hormonal birth control is supposed to have no medical benefits?
I dont think she was saying birth control has no medical benefits. but I agree with her on the fact that many of them are dangeruos.
just as many prescriptions are these days.
I have spoken with m any doctors about options on BC in the past, and many agree that HBC is a dangerous thing that is overly prescribed.
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