how offensive is this tee-shirt? - Page 2

[mamajama]

I hate it. I don't find it funny at all. I find it to be totally insensitive and misogynistic. I didn't have an epidural with either of my births but I have supported women who I love through their births and two of them had epis. I would call them amazing strong beautiful goddess-women and nothing less. I hate that often 'advocacy' translates as one-upmanship, condescention and also often neglects to take into account the infinite variety of experiences and situations in which people find themselves.

And I feel the same as Annette regarding doctor so-and-so.

[CaraNicole]

I'm not so much offended as I am just The only reply I can come up with is 'How petty'


There are so many variables for an epidural that the t-shirt is just a blanket statement for me.... I can see the third grade humor that comes into play, but if I saw someone wearing the shirt....I would laugh at them not with them :

[Joyce in the mts.]

I guess it's all in what you (general "you") choose to project into the world.

We are all women and we all are in this together-- and we all deserve to choose what best fits our lives, our level of comfort, and our sensibilities about our own bodies, our own babies and our own values.

I do believe there will be unity amongst us all someday when we honor everyone's needs regardless.

But heck... that's just me.

J.

[Momma Aimee]

I DO see the humor

however.............

I would be slightly offended but I get the point...

I wanted to have a natural birth but after 30+ hours of labor (total labor was 41 hours) I needed some medical intervention...sometimes there isn't a lot of choice...

I was in labor 33 ACTIVE hours and got no farther than a 3 ........ we can debate all night about WHY and what could have been different .... but that was the situation........ then after pushing 3 hours, unmedicated, i had the Epdural again for the forcepts.

so

i DO see the humor, and to a limited extent even agree -- but uhhhhh I'd not go there.

there are so many better ones

AImee

[angelcat]

Originally Posted by vloky

About the same here, it took 26 hours (at hospital a bit longer at home)to get to 4cm and at that point I took the epidural and within half an hour I was at 10. I guess my family on my dads side has stubborn cervixes, my cousin even with the epidural never made it past I think 3. (after nearly 40 hours they did a c-section..)

Yeah, I never got past 4, and then I had a c-section. Never had an epi cause my hopsital doesn't do them, or at least rarely. I will always wonder if it might have worked. Oh yeah, I'm still ticked I didn't get one.

I still laughed at the t-shirt, though. I wouldn't wear it.

oh, and getting that spinal for the c-section was not for sissies either.

[marisa]

All I can say is yuck.

[Celina2]

I think that it is way too simplistic. I know of a few moms who had very late losses who preferred not having to feel labor because their babies were gone. And many of these women were very positive on having med-free births and had them with all their other children.

I have to admit, though, my first reaction was, "Gee, I guess I really should have toughed it out when my epidural failed in the middle of my c/s."

Celina

[thismama]

I think it's mean and self righteous. I wouldn't think much of the wearer, kwim?

[PPK]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I read the works of Dr. Grantly Dick-Read and think that his works were a load of misogynistic hooey. I've had four births, all different, but all involved some degree of pain or another, with no major complications. It didn't seem prudent to listen to a man tell me how birth "should" be, seeing how he has never gone through it. Personally, I don't think telling women birth shouldn't be painful if they do it right is the path to more natural childbirths. This is probably for another thread though.

[PPK]

Oh, and I find the t-shirt to be petty and insensitive, very discouraging and belittles women's birth experience (which was quite possibly one of the most incredible moments of their lives)..not cool.

[cottonwood]

It's offensive. First, like someone else said, it implies that natural birth is about proving something. I personally have no need to make childbirth about a challenge; I'd be perfectly happy to have it be smooth and easy from beginning to end. Wouldn't make it any less edifying for me. Doesn't make me any less of a woman.

Second, women get epidurals because they're necessary to allow them to relax, or because they're not educated and don't understand the risks, or because they don't have support for a natural birth and are psychologically undermined every step of the way (something that is very hard to deal with in the midst of labor,) or because the pain truly is torturous. Even if the goal is to prove something, none of the above is about being a "wimp". And until you've been through excruciating pain that made you feel like you were being drawn-and-quartered, you are not in a position to judge. If you have, you'll get it: people who think the only women who get epidurals are princesses who can't bear to break a nail in labor, just weren't pushed far enough to their breaking point. Trust me, there is one.

And yeah, Grantly Dick-Read. Well, fear and stress *are* complicating factors in birth for most women in our society. But that doesn't mean that when fear and stress are absent childbirth will be painless, because there are so many other complicating factors, and sometimes they can't all be avoided.

[georgia]

I'm not into namecalling pretending to be advocacy.

[mama_at_home]

I don't see the point of a shirt like that. It is rude and does nothing to educate people.

[anudi01]

I'm divided on this...

I like the fact that its trying to make a statement in a time where I believe Epis are so routinely given and taken w/o the risks being explained properly or taken seriously. I would like it better if it said something like,

"Epidurals are riskly and that's why I didn't have one! Inform yourself!"

I don't know it is a touchy subject, but I just think too many women see their pregnancy as something that someone else gets to/has to manage. It is a woman's responsibility and obligation to bring their children into the world as safely as possible. IMO that is at home and not in a hospital with a staff that often times doesn't have your babies best interest as their priority.

[ZanZansMommy]

Originally Posted by kathteach

I think it's kind of mean, and I didn't even have an epidural or any pain meds.

:

[50ftQueenie]

I'm too chicken of the giant needle to get an epidural. Where's my t-shirt?

[veggiemomma]

**sigh**

[luckymamato2]

I have that in a fridge magnet and I actually leave it on my fridge. I don't think I would wear the shirt for fear of being assaulted.

Why can't I be proud of my accomplishment?

I have and wear a shirt that reads "I make milk. What's your super power?"

[jmwmommysings]

I find that T-shirt offensive. Though I do get the humor of it and I laughed, I don't find insulting others to be the way to encourage change. Plus, if I'm honest, the reason it appealed to me is because there is a part of me that is tempted to think I'm better than some women because I haven't had an epi... and I'm not proud of that. I believe in encouraging and empowering other women in birth, not belittling them and if I feel stronger about myself by poking fun at other women then I need to grow up. I am proud of my births but not because I did something other women didn't/couldn't do but because I did the right thing for me and my baby and THAT was my choice. Besides, I don't know if I would reach a point that would have me needing an epi too, I feel I know myself but I'm one one of those women that has experienced painless childbirth and so I don't really know if there would come a point where I needed the relief. I don't judge others for making a choice that is best for them.

Advocacy and arrogance need to be separated if we truly want to make a difference.

Jessica
Baby girl #4 due New Year's Day '08!

[meisterfrau]

Originally Posted by luckymamato2

Why can't I be proud of my accomplishment?

Certainly you can be proud. But that's no reason to couch it in terms that make people who did not give birth without an epidural sound like failures. Not that I'm saying YOU are, but wearing a t-shirt like that would.