how offensive is this tee-shirt? - Page 4

[meisterfrau]

Originally Posted by ssolberg99

Well, the Bible answers that one...After the fall of man...Genesis 3:16 To the woman he [God] said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children."

Guess that clears that right up.

So, there's another reason not to get an epidural. If you do, you're trying to weasel your way out of God's punishment for the sins of Eve. I never thought of it that way before.

[jwpsgurl]

It is definitely offensive. Childbirth is an empowering experience, and epidural or not, it takes a strong woman to go through it and the nine months on pregnancy. Definitely not for "sissies". I had an unmedicated birth and while I was pregnant one of my biggest fears was that I was going to have to have an epidural. I would be scared to death having that huge needle stuck in my back!!! I'll take the pain before I will let them stick me.

[cottonwood]

Originally Posted by ssolberg99

Well, the Bible answers that one...After the fall of man...Genesis 3:16 To the woman he [God] said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children."

Yeah. Except that there are women who do conceive, are pregnant, and give birth joyously and with pleasure. Hm. How can that be, if the Bible is the literal word of God. Hm, hm, hm. Maybe God was wrong? No, no, can't be that. Maybe the translation was mucked up somewhere along the line, maybe all those great educated men who do the translations, who know SO much about birth, have missed some subtle differences in meaning? Or, maybe all those women who relish in their childbearing are just daughters of Satan. I dunno, you decide.

[Momma Aimee]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssolberg99
Well, the Bible answers that one...After the fall of man...Genesis 3:16 To the woman he [God] said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children."

Yeah. Except that there are women who do conceive, are pregnant, and give birth joyously and with pleasure. Hm. How can that be, if the Bible is the literal word of God. Hm, hm, hm. Maybe God was wrong? No, no, can't be that. Maybe the translation was mucked up somewhere along the line, maybe all those great educated men who do the translations, who know SO much about birth, have missed some subtle differences in meaning? Or, maybe all those women who relish in their childbearing are just daughters of Satan. I dunno, you decide.

actually if you look back at the orginal hewbrew -- the word should be, can be, tranlated as actually LABOR as in WORK or EFFORT -- the orgianl has no implication of PAIN other than a pain of work or tired... not a literal pain as in injury or punishment. Adam was cured to LABOR to bring forth food -- ie to WORK the land and the woman is cursed to LABOR for birth -- ie to work for it. God never promised PAIN in child birth ...THAT is later interperation and tranlastion done by...men (ir the gender men, not men as in Man as in Human race) ................



AImee

[georgia]

Hi, everyone! Let's remember that:

Our community is made up of many nationalities, religions, ages, colors, ethnicities, philosophies, affectional orientations, economic groups, lifestyles, and family structures.

Let's take any religious debate/discussion relating to birth to the Religious Studies forum so that we don't derail the original topic. Any questions or concerns, please PM me. Thanks

[mamajama]

Giving birth hurts because we have evolved to bipedal creatures. Our pelvises have adjusted so that we can do things with our hands and opposable thumbs.

[phreedom]

I´m in the ¨itś petty¨ camp. It just makes it seem like natural birth is some sort of unattainable thing that the average woman can´t do. I get the point of it and really can´t work up the energy to get that offended by a t-shirt. The most it might get from me is an eye roll, but most likely nothing.

[huggerwocky]

I think it's funny, but I wouldn't want to offend those women who got an epidural for a reason. I mean, maybe I would have gotten one if I hadn't been home?

[Boobiemama]

I'm not offended.. I had 4 natural births , 1 epidural. I wouldnt wear it, but if saw it, would think its cool.

[glendora]

Originally Posted by meisterfrau

Guess that clears that right up.

So, there's another reason not to get an epidural. If you do, you're trying to weasel your way out of God's punishment for the sins of Eve. I never thought of it that way before.

There are hospitals back in the day that refused meds to laboring women for just exactly that reason.

[mamajama]

I'm sorry, and this is not only OT but petty and immature, but I really can't get past the fact that the guy's name is Dr. Grantly Dick-Read. It's been cracking me up since I first read it on this thread.

[cchrissyy]

I see why pro-unmedicated-birth people want to stand up for it or even advocate their way on ther shrit.

but man, I'm sick of seeing women that tear down other women's choices.

[avent]

Wearing that shirt pretty much doubles your chances of getting an epidural. Quadruple if you have the nerve to don it as labor is starting.

I didn't have an epidural because the pain wasn't too bad but I can believe that people experience pain very differently. I can only imagine how someone would feel if they didn't want an epidural but ended up getting one and they were walking down the street and saw this. I had a lot of trouble with breastfeeding and certainly don't want to see a "Pumping is for sissies" t-shirt anytime soon.

[Cutie Patootie]

I don't believe in calling names, and "sissy" applies. You can catch more flies with honey... My view on epidurals, doesn't really matter.

[mamajama]

People who think it's 'funny' or 'cool' to mock another's birth practices on a t-shirt seem, on the outset, to be doing it from a place of being positive towards the sensitive and natural theme of birth. But I would love to pose this perspective to them:
Birth is as natural, universal, and 'mystical' as sex. It really is, in pretty much every aspect if one were to truly deconstruct the idea and the practice of both. In that light, I think it's repulsive to insult a woman for opting out of an unbearably painful excersize of either activity simply because she was either a) physically or emotionally unprepared or unable to carry it out or b) in an environment not conducive to a peaceful experience.
That's what sticks in my craw about this topic when it comes down to it. We can put witty lines about anything under the sun on a stupid tee-shirt but we really need to look at what those statements are saying in the bigger picture.

[wonderwahine]

Originally Posted by Inca

I had an epi for my first after 44 hours of labor - yes - there is a breaking point!

And yes - it is offending!

: I had mine after the pain from contractions caused by cytotec and breaking my waters, caused me to go into delerium and I was at the point of screaming and trying to stop every inch of my body from touching anything by arching my way off the bed. I was told by my doula, that the nurse rushed to get the meds to stop my contractions and get an epi because she thought she was going to witness a uterine rupture, she even said that to my doula. I have little to no memory of about 4 hrs of my labor because of that. I had educated myself, had doulas, and was toughing it out without the epi, I didnt even consent to the epi from what I know, they had me sign the paperwork once i was stable and able to sign something again.

There are reasons for epis and women who get them arn't "sissies".

[Britishmum]

I dunno. I've had an epidural (horrible experience) and I've had two natural childbirths. I'm not ashamed of the epidural (mad with the OB, yes, but no feelings of failure here.) And I"m not proud of the natural childbirths. It was just what I chose to do.

I wouldn't wear the shirt, but I also don't find it offensive. I have to say I find it funny. I can see from other responses here that I'm missing something, but sometimes I wonder if we don't need to lighten up a bit.

But as I say, I am missing the point. I"ve read all the responses, but can't seem to find it offensive, nor do I see it as tearing other women down. I just see it as a 'way out there' radical statement that maybe makes some people think. But then, I have a weird sense of humour sometimes. :

[mamajama]

Originally Posted by Britishmum

But then, I have a weird sense of humour sometimes.

I forgot about this perspective

[veggiemomma]

Originally Posted by mamajama

We can put witty lines about anything under the sun on a stupid tee-shirt but we really need to look at what those statements are saying in the bigger picture.

ITA -- EXCEPT this phrase isn't even witty. A four year old at preschool could come up with this one.

After laboring with my ds for 72 hours, plus the mental stress of knowing that he was going to be born at 32 weeks, and the need for an emergency c-section that saved both of our lives, I am very thankful for what bit of pain relief the epidural provided. I think the t-shirt is an open display of ignorance. I prefer to keep my ignorance hidden.

WonderWahine: I am so sorry that happened to you. I am sure you would have preferred an uncomplicated natural childbirth.

[clavicula]

I don't know. Maybe a bit offensive.