Unvaxed baby/pertussis risk

[LISSA~K]

I have a 2 month old that we are strongly considering not vaxing or delaying until after age 2. I also have two older kids that have been fully vaxed up until this point. My concern right now is that we live in a community with a fairly high number of unvaxed kids, and also a lot of pertussis cases. My older son who is vaxed brings home illnesses all the time (right now my baby is currently battling an ear infection from a cold ) My concern is that I know that vaxed kids can also get pertussis, and although I'm sure my 7 year old could survive it, I am really concerned about my small baby. Can someone give me advice or opinions on this? We breastfeed, and baby is home with me all day so likely the only risk would be through big brother...

[Spy]

Its possible. Regardless of the baby's vaccination it's possible. I wouldn't worry too much about a healthy baby though as you are likely to have been exposed recently and gave them some immunity in utero that will hopefully help for the first little while. Ear infections are no good so early. I'd look at vitamin C for you.

[alegna]

Pertussis is everywhere. The vax is highly reactive and not very effective AND only available in combo. I would not personally ever consider it.

-Angela

[runes]

-the pertussis vaccine (or, more accurately the dtap) is a highly reactive vaccine

-pertussis is basically endemic, so we ALL live in an area that has high rates of pertussis

-the vaccine does not prevent transmission

-as spy mentioned...get some vitamin c (in the form of sodium ascorbate)

[runes]

cross post, great minds think alike.

[crittersmom]

Here's the thing.The chances are high that your baby is going to get sick even with the shot.The shot is not a garantee that your baby won't get Pertussis.Its also a roll of the dice if it will even lessen the severity.Figure out your game plan for when your baby gets sick now so that you will be ready.

[Gitti]

keep her as healthy as you can by eating healthy yourself and avoiding all medicines especially abx and vaccines. keep her little ecosystem balanced.

it all depends on the milieu not the germ.

[lokidoki]

Even the vaccine maker has stated that the vaccine is most effective after 3 doses ~ which would not happen until your baby was 6 months old. Meaning your baby would not be fully protected (in terms of what the vaccine maker states) until 6 months. Your baby is at greatest risk (meaning pertussis is most dangerous in babies 6 months and under) when he/she cannot be fully vaxed anyway. As others have said ~ the vax is highly reactive and there is not really any evidence that it is all that effective. Seems that conveniently when the vax became available doctors stopped diagnosing pertussis...but people were still having WC ~ just got diagnosed differently ~ so it makes it look like WC rates went down when in actuality it was just being diagnosed differently.

Vit C does a lot to boost the immune system!

[nichole]

deleted...

[Spy]

Originally Posted by nichole

i'm curious how to give it to a newborn though. the baby wouldn't drink it in juice. the only way he would take it was in a spoonful of jelly.

There is no need to do that, vitamins are all going into breastmilk and the concentration depends on the mothers diet. If mum gets plenty the baby gets enough.

[MsGrizzle]

Originally Posted by Spy

There is no need to do that, vitamins are all going into breastmilk and the concentration depends on the mothers diet. If mum gets plenty the baby gets enough.

True when healthy, but if the baby is sick, wouldn't you want to go beyond to get to bowel tolerance? I actually just use the Hyland's Vitamin C tablets. They are sodium ascorbate in 25 mg and they dissolve on the tongue. There are some good threads in the archives about SA

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=714819

[luminesce]

What everyone says is true about effectiveness of the vaccine, the endemic nature of Pertussis and the reactive nature of the vaccine. However, it has been shown that vaccination DOES lessen severity of the disease and in a baby so young that could be important.

DS has not been vaccinated at six months but I don't think it is unreasonable to get the shot. Good luck with your decision. It is difficult!

[anewmama]

Can we clarify the use of Vit C or SA with a newborn/infant? Reading above, it seems folks are recommending giving it to a newborn to bowel intolerance. While this may not be intended, this is what I am picking up. I do not think that's wise and wonder what studies exist to give either one to a baby under 1 year. Are studies needed to make this call?

To what degree will Vit C actually pass through breastmilk provided the best approach is for the mother to take Vit C or SA and pass it on to her baby who is needing it. I am wondering how much actually passes through beyond a "regular" healthy level that is already being transmitted from the mother adhering to a regular healthy diet to make the expense worth the effort to supplement more in the hopes that more gets through to baby.

[alegna]

*Personally* I would not give SA to an infant on a day to day basis. If they HAD pertussis though, yes, I would give it directly AND take it myself.

-Angela

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by serenitii

However, it has been shown that vaccination DOES lessen severity of the disease and in a baby so young that could be important.

DS has not been vaccinated at six months but I don't think it is unreasonable to get the shot. Good luck with your decision. It is difficult!

The Pertussis component is (second to prevenar, I think) highly reactive.

Encephalitic Cry

[MsGrizzle]

I did not mean to imply giving it to a newborn daily...I just used it when my little one was sick. My personal choice. I did not give my now 15-month old any SA until he had a stuffy nose. (He's never had pertussis, as far as I know, and he is in daycare) I used the Hyland's tablets. He's only ever had 2 stuffy noses and both times it didn't last more than 1 day. I also used it heavily when he had chicken pox. Now that he is older, I'd like to start getting into more of a routine of using it, but my brain isn't there yet. :

I highly recommend reading the entire SA thread mentioned above as well as the Nutrition/Immunology 101 thread in the stickies (I'm still reading that one!)....

[luminesce]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II;

The Pertussis component is (second to prevenar, I think) highly reactive.

Encephalitic Cry

Yes, I acknowledged that. And it is largely why DS hasn't had the shot. BUT, pertussis can be ugly in a *tiny* baby and the evidence given by PPs was missing one aspect on the flip side of the coin - which is that the shot DOES reduce symptom severity. And I think someone making a choice should be given all the facts. If my babe was out and about more, in daycare or exposed to siblings who were, I may have chosen differently. I don't know.

[momto l&a]

A good book for the OP would be Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases,& Toxins by Thomas Levy MD, JD

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by serenitii

However, it has been shown that vaccination DOES lessen severity of the disease and in a baby so young that could be important.

what age are we talking about?

Originally Posted by soapdiva

Now that he is older, I'd like to start getting into more of a routine of using it, but my brain isn't there yet.
...

i would NOT use SA or most other supplements on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by serenitii

BUT, pertussis can be ugly in a *tiny* baby and the evidence given by PPs was missing one aspect on the flip side of the coin - which is that the shot DOES reduce symptom severity.

i think we all agree that wc can be bad for a tiny baby.

so what do you suggest?

even if the child would get vaccinated, he'd be no better off (if that's likely) until he's had 3 shots at which time he'd be 6 mo. and out of the woods anyway, so to speak.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by serenitii

Yes, I acknowledged that. And it is largely why DS hasn't had the shot. BUT, pertussis can be ugly in a *tiny* baby and the evidence given by PPs was missing one aspect on the flip side of the coin - which is that the shot DOES reduce symptom severity.

It does? Didn't for me and I was a fully vaxed adult; I'd like more details on that.

Even if it were true for infants I would not risk such a reactive vaccine.