What happened to full term?

[Banana731]

I only had dd 3 years ago, and I could swear that full term was 37 or 38 weeks. Is it 36 weeks now??? What did I miss? And didn't it used be this full term mark was the point at which you're in the clear in case you go into labor, not the time you are shooting for when it comes to delivery? What happened to 40 weeks? I went almost 42 last time! 36 weeks is over a month shorter than that. DD weighed 7 lbs and change, if I had given birth 6 weeks before that she would have weighed, like 5 lbs! I don't get it. :

[DoomaYula]

Here's my opinion

I'll try to be succinct: it's a product of our ligitious culture/CYA medicine. And also, modern science being the "miracle" that it is, having a preemie is like no big deal anymore. We see babies born at 22w who survive. So why not have a baby at 35w and get it over with?

Elective inductions are on the rise. Docs want to make women happy so they won't sue. Docs don't get sued for doing c-s. They get sued for NOT doing a c-s. Any medical issue = reason to sue if doc doesn't aggressively manage the situation. Most of the time, that agressive management is induction or c-s.

Providers want to make life easier for themselves, would rather do an induction at 10A on a Monday than have a woman come in at 4A on a Saturday. I know someone who induced prior to a nat'l holiday because "there won't be as much staff on duty if you go into labor on the holiday."

Also, nobody talks about a c-s as major abdominal surgery, with risks. You should hear the women at my playgroup -- they think their c-s were the best thing since the invention of electricity.

Women don't believe in their bodies. My mother never gave me any reason to believe in my body (or not believe in it, either, but belief in it is something I'm going to instill in my daughters). I know a woman who has been induced 4x. She will tell you, "My body doesn't know how to go into labor. My body doesn't know how to dialate. I can't have a baby without pitocin." It's sad to hear.

So, okay, I wasn't succinct.

[wildgarden]

For me 36-37 weeks marks a period of relief from worry about pre-term labor. It is when the midwives start feeling comfortable with a homebirth. I wouldn't mind going to 40 weeks +. I guess I may start to worry again if it went too long (although I don't know at what point I would start to worry).

Also, if I felt really uncomfortable, I might have been excited to get things moving early ("anytime after 36 weeks"), but that is not the case...I feel fine and I really would like more time. Ramble...ramble...ramble.

[Banana731]

so true...

did you see the post in the main pregnancy forum about the 4lbs c/s baby due to an OB using an u/s for weight determination? I would want some answers from that guy.

My sister is the same way about c/s. She's 8wks or so and told me she's scheduling her c/s(because she had one last time and of course things will be the exact same this time. I tried to tell her that it was a horrible idea and she tells me she thinks I'm the one who's nuts and "she'll be praying for me when I'm in labor." I wish I had thought to say, "you should pray for yourself, since you're much more likely to die having a c/s than I am having a VBAC!" But alas, I don't have the silver tongue you've been blessed with.

I can't wait to start sending her all the journal articles I can find on increased maternal mortality and the effects of anesthesia on BFing. There is a pretty new study on how infants born by primary c/s have a higher mortality rate than vaginally born infants, I wish they'd do more studies on repeat c/s and infant mortality, I'd bet findings would be similar!

[DoomaYula]

Meh, my feeling is not to waste your time on people who will never listen, ya know? Having a great birth and an easy fast recovery is a good revenge

I attended my sil's birth last year. She had PROM at 36.5w (no particular reason, but hey, there are people who spontaneously go into labor early, I guess) and had a fairly typical hospital birth: epidural, cath, IV, cord traction for the placenta, and then 3rd stage pit. Not my scene. Anyway, she keeps saying things like how CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAZY I am to want to give birth at home, and then in the next breath asking if I can call her when labor starts, so she can attend (3h away). Um, yeah, not so much. I'll take people who are supportive of homebirth and think birth is cool and normal, thanks.

[mittendrin]

To me full term is 40 weeks with anything between 38 and 42 weeks still being considered normal timeframe for delivery. I really don't care what the medical community says and what kinda wonders they can do, the baby is still cooking the same way as it always did and that is what I go by. I was wondering about all this myself, thanks for bringing it up.
I will not hope for this baby to come out before 40 wks, but then I don't have to worry about preterm labor too much, always been right on time.

[EviesMom]

I think as a marker for when it's safe to go into natural labor, it can be useful to know. I'm glad to know that I can have a midwife attended home birth now. It also gave me a date as to when I wanted to have things in place by, just in case, like the birthing tub delivered, etc. Even if it now sits here a month.

But just like some people expect to go over, there are some, like me, who expect to go under. I went into labor with dd at 37 weeks exactly. Maybe because she was breech, maybe because that's how long my body gestates babies for, maybe because I finished my office job that day and I let my body and mind relax, maybe there was something else going on. I'll never really know why she was born at 37 weeks and not 41. She was healthy though, 6 pounds 6 ounces, and had normal breathing. I think my body and hers were working pretty well together.

It does seem like 2nd and later birth timing is somewhat related to earlier births. I don't generally hear of people who are early with the first and late with the second unless there was a problem the first time, like true prematurity (30 weeks) or HELLP. So I'll be shocked if I go past my due date. I'll have been ready for nearly a month. That's okay with me. It's psychologically easier for me to expect him to be early and me to prepare for that than it would be for me to expect a delay (I did with dd b/c people always say first time moms go late) and have an early babe instead.

[naismama]

Dh and I were just wondering about this last night. Does the 38-42 week window figure in flexibility with LMP dating? Because, of course, not every woman has a 28 day cycle and ovulates on the same day of that cycle. With dd and this baby I am *certain* of conception dates. Had we gone by LMP, dd would have been born at "38w 6d." With this babe, were we going by LMP, he would have been due August 25: I was nursing, had one ppaf in between, blah, blah. Dh and I were wondering, would most OB's have understood the effects of breastfeeding on that LMP date? Would they have been trying to induce 6 weeks early if my baby seemed big enough? Hmmm... Just wondering...

[Jenlaana]

for me, normal is between 36 and 44 wks. I would not be comfortable birthing without a neonatal team before that, and would consent to induction after that. Thats just my personal timeline for things. That being said, because of the errors in dating it would take a VERY serious problem (like my health in true jeapordy or proven baby in distress) in order for me to agree to an induction prior to 40 wks. I figure that at 40 wks, it gives a month either way in which to be wrong and still have a healthy outcome.

I went to the OB tuesday and he started talking about inducing me on well I guess it would be today because i have high blood pressure (but its been high every other appointment prior to this as well and nobody freaked out until I had to see him instead of the midwives). It went very badly and he was yelling at me in the middle of the office (not in a patient room or any place private) and telling me I could have a siezure and stroke out and all these other things (including making the facial expressions of someone who is a stroke victim...) and I just walked out and left DH to end the conversation, and have no intention of ever going back or ever letting that man touch me in labor.

I dont understand how they can be so sure of dates when its obvious that they are not always right. Like the other post referenced here, it really is possible that they get the dates wrong, even though many OBs feel that they are god and are not capable of being wrong.

[naismama]

Originally Posted by Jenlaana

I went to the OB tuesday and he started talking about inducing me on well I guess it would be today because i have high blood pressure (but its been high every other appointment prior to this as well and nobody freaked out until I had to see him instead of the midwives). It went very badly and he was yelling at me in the middle of the office (not in a patient room or any place private) and telling me I could have a siezure and stroke out and all these other things (including making the facial expressions of someone who is a stroke victim...) and I just walked out and left DH to end the conversation, and have no intention of ever going back or ever letting that man touch me in labor.

WTF???? I mean, I know high blood pressure is a serious issue in pregnancy, but this sounds SO unprofessional and mean. I'm sorry this happened to you.

[jessitron]

My prenatal yoga teacher was remarking this week about how everybody seems to want babies out earlier and earlier these days.
37 weeks is still term most places. 41 weeks is panic mode any more for lots of care providers. Risk out of the birth center, omigosh, baby isn't early. What's up with that?
... and yeah, it seems like anytime after 37 weeks they're happy to strip your membranes for ya.

[bygones75]

Interesting. I agreed with many of the points made.

That said, both my children came early and naturally, without any help from the medical establishment. And both were big for their gestational ages. My doula thinks my gestation is "shorter" than other women's. *shrugs* Could be! (Thomas was 6 lb, 1 oz at 35 weeks, 6 days... James was 7 lbs, 3 oz at 37 weeks.)

Ok, a little off-topic. Anyway, yes, I believe too many inductions are being done for foolish reasons these days. Wish there was a little more trust in our bodies to do their jobs.

[jessitron]

That is insane!
High blood pressure is dangerous in pregnancy but "high" is relative to early in pregnancy, not some crazy OB's numbers on a generic chart. Ugh! Good for you, Jenlaana, for walking out.

[Devaya]

it does seem to be a worrying trend...i think a symptom of our society's general obsession with getting everything done quickly, faster, sooner... inductions seem to happen much too easily, and that people regard them as normal is worrying. there are several alternative/natural ways to bring on labour which could be tried before resorting to medical induction, but also does anyone consider the psychological side of unresolved issues in the mother's emotions etc, that may need to be addressed before she is ready to give birth? This really struck me when reading Ina May Gaskin's work.

[Jenlaana]

Originally Posted by jessitron

That is insane!
High blood pressure is dangerous in pregnancy but "high" is relative to early in pregnancy, not some crazy OB's numbers on a generic chart. Ugh! Good for you, Jenlaana, for walking out.

Thanks. There was really nothing else I could do because I was so upset I couldn't speak or think rationally anymore.

Its been 2 days since this happened and I am having so much trouble processing it. I've had a fairly uneventful and pleasant pregnancy up until this point, but ever since this happened I find myself crying over it all the time and just having trouble finding my "happy place". Its not even about the high blood pressure, just the way that he treated me (and how he humiliated me by doing it in front of atleast 8 or 9 people or more). And now I am without an OB because he told me that if I did not go along with him he would kick me out (although he backtracked on that later in speaking to DH on the phone once he realized what he said and how much hot water he would be in for kicking out someone this close to their due date)

Sorry to hijack the thread. I just cant stop thinking about it all, and cant seem to get over it. I understand that doctors and midwives need to have proceedures in place to cover themselves, but I don't understand what makes them think they have the right to treat women this way when they do not agree to them.

Oh and he also told DH "sometimes you have to scare a kid until he pees his pants to save him from harm, and sometimes you have to do that to adults too" (this was after I walked out)

[2bluefish]

My understanding is that before 36 weeks you are preterm. 36-39 is "near term". 40 weeks is full term. And past 42 weeks is "supposed to be" overdue. My grandma had 16 kids, and she said there is no such thing as a late baby just a wrong doctor. I had #2 at 37.5 and I did not consider his 6 lb 11 oz little self to be premature. I believe some women do cook their babies faster - some babies mature faster outside the womb, why wouldn't it stand to reason that some babies mature faster inside the womb? And by the same token, some babies take longer.

[mittendrin]

Originally Posted by 2bluefish

My understanding is that before 36 weeks you are preterm. 36-39 is "near term". 40 weeks is full term. And past 42 weeks is "supposed to be" overdue. My grandma had 16 kids, and she said there is no such thing as a late baby just a wrong doctor. I had #2 at 37.5 and I did not consider his 6 lb 11 oz little self to be premature. I believe some women do cook their babies faster - some babies mature faster outside the womb, why wouldn't it stand to reason that some babies mature faster inside the womb? And by the same token, some babies take longer.

:

[mamaveggie]

Originally Posted by Jenlaana

Oh and he also told DH "sometimes you have to scare a kid until he pees his pants to save him from harm, and sometimes you have to do that to adults too" (this was after I walked out)

WOW, what a jerk! I would be finding a new dr and reporting that.

[hammycakes]

Banana,
I was wondering the same thingafter taking a childbirth refresher course. When I had dd2 they told me 38 weeks was term. Now for this one, 37.
I had her 36 weeks and 6 days, but she weighed 7 lbs 8oz, and I kinda think the dates were wrong all along because the other two were at 39 weeks.
Good points made all over.. especially about people wanting to schedule things on their own terms, life moving faster and faster. Dh and I talked about how all the tv shows now are shot like little music videos, tiny clips of images strung together. It seems like everything is getting faster and people's attention spans are just getting shorter!

[Thandiwe]

"Term" is so subjective! When I had my son 2 years ago, I was told 37 weeks was term. With this baby, the midwife claims anything 4 weeks before to 4 weeks after is okay. Actually, though, when I was having signs of labor at 35 weeks and was measuring more like 39 weeks in growth (I know, I know, that means nothing in reality - just stating what she said), she was comfortable delivering from that point forward. I think dates can be screwy, too. For me, my LMP claims my due date to be 10-16, but I had a really stressful Jan and had actually marked (what a dork) on the calendar the time we had unprotected sex and ovulation, thus making my due date more accurately 10-10.