Educate me!

[Eple]

I live in Norway (Scandianvia) Circumcision is not common at all- I know of some few muslims that has done it, but not anybody else. I have some questions to you as I understand this is a big issue in the US. Here we dont talk about this at all.

Why? Only religious aruments?
Is it muslims and jews that does this or christians too?
Does it come with any risk? I think of infections
Do people know of the risk if any?

As you can see I dont know much about this. In my country we are more conserned about the girls that go on holiday to their parents country (like Somalia) and are beeing mulested there. I guess there is a name for it in englishs, but I dont know.

(hope my english is ok)

[nd_deadhead]

Eple, your English is fine - much better than my Norwegian (even though my grandmother was from Norway).

In the US, male circumcision is done by people of all backgrounds, even Christian. It has been used to prevent masturbation, cure all kinds of horrible diseases (including epilepsy), and because it is believed to be "cleaner".

Obviously many of the old medical reasons for doing it have been proven to be wrong, so new reasons have been invented, such as preventing UTIs and penile cancer. 30 years ago parents often weren't even given a chioce - it was just done to practically all boys in the hospital.

Meanwhile, the practice had become so common that people started to assume that it HAD to be done - a lot of people still believe this. They think that if it isn't done to babies, it will HAVE to be done later in life. Of course you and I know how wrong that is!

And people who were circumcised, and whose husbands and brothers were circumcised, didn't understand what the foreskin was all about, and experienced a bit of "fear of the unknown". One often hears men say "I was circumcised, and I turned out fine". If it was good enough for the Dad, it's good enough for the son - without even thinking about it.

The medical community is very little help. Infant circumcision is still covered by insurance for most people, though that is beginning to change. Doctors who have been doing circumcision for 30 years are often unwilling to admit that maybe they shouldn't have been doing them, so they continue on, and convince parents that it is better for the baby.

We are gradually making a difference, but it is an uphill climb. It is not easy to change a hundred years of tradition.

Thanks for your questions!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Why? Only religious aruments? Nope it is done here because people were brainwashed into thinking it is cleaner and there are so many myths about the foreskin. It will eventually get infected and need to be removed. It is a useless piece of skin. It will hurt more to do it as a adult(ignoring the fact adults can tell you it hurts and have pain relief when a infant dosnt have that luxury), the new studies that came out and claimed circed men are less likely to get AIDS(forgetting again that the USA has a very high circ rate along with a very high AIDS rate) There are so many other myths out there I cant think of them all right now.

Is it muslims and jews that does this or christians too? Some christians think that it is required even tho it definatly isnt(that is all I can say on the religous aspect since we cannot talk about religious circ here at all)

Does it come with any risk? Along with infections here is a list of possible complications some happen more than others:

• Infections;
• Botched circumcisions that have to be redone;
• To tight circumcisions that cause extreme pain with erection;
• Hair on the shaft;
• Loss of sensation in the glans (head), it becomes keratinized (hardened) without the foreskin; (this one always happens)
• Amputation of the part or all of the penis;
• Ruptured stomach, bladder, and or intestines from crying so hard;
• Skin bridges(very common)
• Adhesions(very common)
• Scaring on the penis shaft(very common)
• Meatal Stenosis http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/persad/ around 10-15% of circs result in this complication if not more.
• DEATH (I have read that as many as 5 infants die every year from circ complications)

Do people know of the risk if any? Most people here are blissfully unaware of what can go wrong until it does. Even then they dont say I wish I hadnt done it they blame it on the Dr not doing his job right or just see it as something very unusual when in fact it is very common. There have even been parents who's sons have died as a result of circ complications and say they will definatly have another boy circed anyway the brain washing goes that deep here in some cases.

[Eple]

Thank you for all the information!:

(Have to read again with my dictionary... a few words I diddent understand )

I must say- I diddent know any of this. Here this is not on any agenda, and if I told my famliy or others that we wanted to to this to our sons they would not belive it. Nobody I know has had their forskin removed.

Feel like quoting Franklin Roosevelt who once said "Look to Norway"
Even thoug it was in a totally different contex.

[Eple]

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead

Eple, your English is fine - much better than my Norwegian (even though my grandmother was from Norway).

!

Thanks! Do you know were she was born?

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I wish it wasnt a issue here either I sear I dont know how a country that is supposed to be so smart is so ignorent on this subject. It is enough to make me

Eple what words didnt you get maybe we could explain them better for you

[nd_deadhead]

Originally Posted by Eple

Thanks! Do you know were she was born?

Sadly, I don't. Next time I see one of her sisters I'll have to ask!

She was very young when she came to the US in about 1915. She said The Lord's Prayer in Norwegian, and a few swear words, but my grandpa didn't speak Norwegian, so it was strictly English in their home. My Dad didn't even speak any Norwegian, except for a few words.

We had an exchange student in 1982 who was from Trondheim. We lived in a little town in Minnesota with a lot of Norwegian immigrants, and the older people in our church loved talking to her. Later she would say "They all sound just like my grandmother!" For the people who moved here and continuted to speak their native language, and teach it to their children, the language didn't evolve. Our kids would laugh too if they talked to someone who spoke English the way they did 100 years ago.

[Eple]

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead

Sadly, I don't. Next time I see one of her sisters I'll have to ask!

She was very young when she came to the US in about 1915. She said The Lord's Prayer in Norwegian, and a few swear words, but my grandpa didn't speak Norwegian, so it was strictly English in their home. My Dad didn't even speak any Norwegian, except for a few words.

We had an exchange student in 1982 who was from Trondheim. We lived in a little town in Minnesota with a lot of Norwegian immigrants, and the older people in our church loved talking to her. Later she would say "They all sound just like my grandmother!" For the people who moved here and continuted to speak their native language, and teach it to their children, the language didn't evolve. Our kids would laugh too if they talked to someone who spoke English the way they did 100 years ago.

I have heard this before- and Norwegian TV made a program about this some time ago. They went to Minnesota to find people who could speak norwegian after so many years. It sounded so old fashion

[Eple]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

I wish it wasnt a issue here either I sear I dont know how a country that is supposed to be so smart is so ignorent on this subject. It is enough to make me

Eple what words didnt you get maybe we could explain them better for you

Yes- thats very strange:

Here are som of the things I diddent understand:

# Skin bridges(very common)
# Adhesions(very common)
# Meatal Stenosis

:

[calngavinsmom]

Originally Posted by Eple

Yes- thats very strange:

Here are som of the things I diddent understand:

# Skin bridges(very common)
# Adhesions(very common)
# Meatal Stenosis

:

The words above are all circumcision complications. If you click this link http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/complications.html , you will find pictures of them.

Take care,
Tara

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Ok I will link to a picture of it were I can. Be warned tho these pics are of the penis and graphic in nature.

Warning pictures of the penis(we put that there just in case someone is looking at work or has a child standing next to them)
Skin bridge: http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Botched1sb.html My dh has this If you go to the very bottom of this page you can click on other common complications as well. Gives you a good idea what can and does go wrong.

Adhesions are like skin bridges and are basicly the same thing but in a infant they tear them loose by hand often times but adults need local and they are cut. Most men leave them alone.

Meatal Stenosis is a narrowing of the urethral opening. The hole basicly closes up due to scar tissue. This is something that only happens to circed men and is a direct result of circ. Where the penis has tried to heal itself after.

[rabbitmum]

It's tragic and I don't understand how it can happen in a modern country.

Another concept I have seen mentioned sometime on this forum is that people should be informed of "care of the intact penis". That is not something we are informed of here in Norway, and I don't know what that would be? - you don't have to do anything in particular with your son's intact penis (I have two sons and never did anything with their penises).

I don't dare to look at the pictures in the link - not because I'm scared of seeing a penis (though I have never seen a circumcised one ) but because I don't want to see some horrible injury on a small child and get nightmares.

[AstridS]

Originally Posted by rabbitmum

It's tragic and I don't understand how it can happen in a modern country.

Another concept I have seen mentioned sometime on this forum is that people should be informed of "care of the intact penis". That is not something we are informed of here in Norway, and I don't know what that would be? - you don't have to do anything in particular with your son's intact penis (I have two sons and never did anything with their penises).

I don't dare to look at the pictures in the link - not because I'm scared of seeing a penis (though I have never seen a circumcised one ) but because I don't want to see some horrible injury on a small child and get nightmares.

I never understood "care of the intact penis". We are not informed of this here in Denmark. Why would a penis require any special care?
I'm not going to look at the pictures either. I have never seen a circumcised penis, and I have absolutely no need to see a picture of a babyboy who has had this injury inflicted on him.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

The pictures are all of grown men in the link I put up. The reason proper care of the intact penis comes up is because back in the old days parents and Dr were taught to retract from birth. Parents were told to scrub under it at every diaper change and as you can imagine this caused many boys to end up circed due to repeat infection and true phimosis from the scare tissue that formed afterward.

This myth is still going strong not only in the general population but in the medical field and well. So proper care is actually to do nothing other than wash it like the rest of the body on occasion and leave it alone the rest of the time.

[LavenderMae]

Eple!!

In the US it is very important that parents know how to care for their intact son/s, which we know is basically do nothing. Because even now many parents are instructed by doctors to retract their son and clean under their foreskin. Which of course can lead to problems , not to mention it hurts.

It is so nice to read the post from those of you from other countries/non-circ countries. Although it does make me sad too, I hate living in a country that has normalized such a brutal practice. :

[MaryJaneLouise]

I agree, it is WONDERFUL to hear from some shocked Europeans! I live in an area where 90% of boys are circumcised, and everyone is shocked to see them not circumcised. Thanks for making my family feel normal

[Eple]

Thank you for all your replies

After reading about it here I startet to look for anything on the subject from Norway. I found one blog- this norwegian who lived in Singapore asked "should I circumcise my son- he doesent want to" or somthing like that.

"newlyeducatedEple" was sad because the answers showed so much ignoranse. Many people had strong oppinions against it without any arguments why- its just normal "let the forskin be", and some said "they do i the US and I`ve heard you dont get aids if you remove it".

Thank you all for info and pictures! I have to let thing sink in before take a deep breath and start to stand up for what I belive is best for our boys and men!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

It is a lot to take in : I always knew I would never circ just because it was cutting on the genitals and if they were born with it how could it be bad. Then I got the net found here did my research and was horrified at the whole thing.