On declining newborn "procedures"...

[wwisdomskr]

Food for thought...

This is from Midwifery Today, Issue 83. It's an interview with Nancy Wainer, birth activist, midwife and childbirth educator.

"In my childbirth classes, I talk about unnecessary newborn interventions: circumcision, vitamin K, erythromycin, immediate cord cutting, cord blood banking, the hepatitis B vaccine. It's important for women to think about what their babies want. They don't want to be born into bright lights that hurt their eyes. They don't want to be born drugged. They don't want to be taken from their mothers. I show a photo of a baby gorilla with its mother and ask students to think about what that mother would do if we tried to take her baby away. I show them the father gorilla and ask them what he would do if we tried to take the baby away from its mother. They would kill us. And yet parents let hospital staff take their babies away all the time for non-emergency reasons. Hospitals talk about being baby-friendly, but they can't be baby-friendly if they aren't mother-friendly."

[maisiedotes]

Thanks for posting that! I have not given much thought to which procedures we will have done... does anyone know if a resource that will tell us the benefits and risks of each one? The vitamin k drops are a concern for me...

[scheelimama]

At my birth center, they wait to cut the cord and don't bathe the baby at all. But they do the rest (except circumcision.) I will refuse the Hep. B for sure. I'm feeling pretty strongly that I'll also refuse the Vit. K shot unless pushing is extended or there is some sort of trauma at birth (really the only reasons it's needed), and I'll refuse the ethromyacin since that has more to do with STD's that I don't have. There's not much reason to do it. But at my last two births, I went in planning to refuse the Vit. K and the erthromyacin and they talked me into them both, both times. Ugh.

[Isaac'sMa]

I agree that almost all NB procedures are unnecessary and that the baby should never leave the mother, but I will be the lone dissenter here on the vit. K shot. We refused the vit. K after my son was born b/c we were not going to circumcise him. My FIL is a well-known, pediatric hematologist and he was *very* upset about the fact that we declined the shot. He actually presented several articles (written by him, of course, peer-reviewed etc) about babies who were born (one at home with a MW) and died later. The oldest was almost 6mo, I believe. All due to hemorragic disease of the newborn. The occurrence of HDN is not common here in the US, but based on what I've read it it much more common in areas where vit K is not given routinely. Certain hereditary diseases such as celiac and a few others can make babies more susceptible to HDN also. Based on what we read after declining the shot initially, we decided to go ahead with it. Although some sources say IM vit. K is more effective, it seems that the oral drops are also effective.

My FIL, BTW had very little to say about the fact that we are selectively vaxing our son and on a delayed schedule.

I am not trying to offend anyone by posting this (and certainly not trying to be argumentative), but just want people to make informed decisions.

[wwisdomskr]

Yeah...my intent in posting this was less about the specific interventions and more about the idea that we talk with anxiety about how/if we will decline certain things. I really liked the example of the gorillas. We all just need to remember that these are OUR babies...and we are hiring everyone in attendance at our birth for various reasons. Most procedures are not law...and even if they are, there are exemptions.

Of course some things are necessary sometimes. It's the blanket "procedures" that are not okay.

We all have to do our research and carefully consider what we do and do not want for ourselves and our babies.

And, if there's something you don't want...then simply don't allow it. It's your baby. Remember the gorillas...

[maclolo]

cord blood banking

I don't know how they go about doing this (how is it an intervention? is it harmful to the newborn somehow?)... We have been thinking about this one lately... Our MWs gave us some documents and a DVD to read about it but we haven't gotten around to them yet.

[yogachick79]

I'd love to know more too. We won't bank for ourselves (can't afford it plus it requires the cord to be cut before it stops pulsing) but she said that if we wanted to donate it that they would still let the cord finish pulsing before cutting and banking (something that is a must for me personally with the cord). I need to find out more info...

[bloomingmomma]

Our midwives gave us some great information so that we could make informed choices and we decided to do the three doses of oral plant-based (phytonadione) vitamin K at birth, one and two weeks, instead of the injection within the first 2 hours of birth. Babies at risk for HDN include premature babies and breastfed babies (breastmilk, unlike formula, is low in vit. K). We're not afraid of giving naturally sourced vitamins to our babies.

We're also choosing to do a newborn screening test at 3 days (and forgoing the 2nd test at 2 weeks).

We're not doing ANY other intervention.

We saw this beautiful video recently showing unassisted latching onto the breast. Unmedicated babies who were put directly on their mom's chests (no washing or other interventions) crawled up and found the nipple and latched on just right. It was so sad to see the medicated and separated babies just lie there, with this survival instinct apparently completely interrupted.

[GinaRae]

This has been weighing heavily on my mind now that I might face a hospital birth. Due to the type of info Laura posted, I have been thinking about going ahead with the Vit K. Hubby has Celiacs.

I don't want the rest and it's bothering me that as soon as my child is born, I am going to have to fight with everyone about my wishes.

Also, as far as cord blood banking, many women feel it robs the baby of essential blood THEY need by disrupting the last of the blood pulsing into the baby. But someone on the I'm Pregnant (or was it homebirth) forum here at MDC had a way to do it without disrupting the blood. I just cannot remember what it was!

[sorteep]

I just got told today that if we have to trans from birth ctr to hospital they absolutely, positively DO NOT let any parents into nursery and going to the nursery is MANDATORY ! I am NOT happy......... will discuss at next visit, must talk to DH about it first...

we are selecting natural oral vit K and NO other interventions, unless there is some weird medical emergency or something

I can't get on board with the additives/ preservatives in teh vit K injection.. I am comfortable with oral.. but it certainly is a personal decision on a case by case basis (jay had it, Evan did not)

LOVE the gorilla visual, very powerful!

[mittendrin]

Laura, have you researched that? It sounds horrible and illegal to me. Yep, we ARE in the Land Of The "Free".... :

[oskie]

Originally Posted by sorteep

I just got told today that if we have to trans from birth ctr to hospital they absolutely, positively DO NOT let any parents into nursery and going to the nursery is MANDATORY ! I am NOT happy......... will discuss at next visit, must talk to DH about it first...

Wait, what?? We were talking about this the first week of childbirth class and they told us that the mother or the partner is with the baby at all times in case of transfer. If it's an emergency with the mother, obviously she can't be with the baby, but the partner can and they reunite the whole family as soon as possible.

Maybe I misunderstood and they were talking about just the actual transfer part - once you get to the hospital everything is different? :

OTOH, I am happy if they have the oral Vit K. I didn't feel comfortable skipping it, but at the same time I wasn't comfortable with the injection either.

[YankeeMomInVA]

Originally Posted by sorteep

I just got told today that if we have to trans from birth ctr to hospital they absolutely, positively DO NOT let any parents into nursery and going to the nursery is MANDATORY ! I am NOT happy......... will discuss at next visit, must talk to DH about it first...

They do this at our hospital, too... where parents are absolutely forbidden from the nursery. (i had never heard of such a thing and surely didn't experience it where we had DS!)

We are declining the bath simply b/c of the fact that it would add another three hours to the time the baby will be away from us. (hearing test is mandatory and must be done in nursery)

[MandarijnOrange]

Thanks for posting that info Laura-Isaac'sMa. It makes me nervous to decline everything the hospital does just because it's medical. I have been trying to research all of the routine procedures individually to try and make up my mind about each of them.

I have been thinking of asking for the oral form of Vitamin K instead of the injection form. The oral form is standard in Europe.

As far as the eye ointment goes, I was opposed to it at first since I don't have any of the STDs responsible for the bacteria. However, I've read that babies can also get these bacteria from caregivers in the hospital. Although, I don't plan on letting the nurses handle my baby very much, if at all. It still makes me nervous to think that they are working with so many other women in Labor & Delivery that could potentially be carrying them. I think I will request the ointment be delayed until after the initial bonding time and the baby gets sleepy.

The Hep B vaccine is definitely getting refused though.

[Kontessa]

Go mama gorillas! I very much liked this image as I feel very strongly about keeping my baby on me. Thus the homebirth!

I wonder though if it bothers anyone to complair us to a gorilla? Just a random thought that popped into my head. Personally we joke all the time about how we are monkeys, I swear my banana crazy DS acts like it. Personally we believe in evolution and a higher power as well.

If nothing else, we are all mamals right? Is there a mamal that does well if you take thier newborns away? I remember my cat biting the vet.....

[Isaac'sMa]

Originally Posted by wwisdomskr

Yeah...my intent in posting this was less about the specific interventions and more about the idea that we talk with anxiety about how/if we will decline certain things. I really liked the example of the gorillas. We all just need to remember that these are OUR babies...and we are hiring everyone in attendance at our birth for various reasons. Most procedures are not law...and even if they are, there are exemptions.

Of course some things are necessary sometimes. It's the blanket "procedures" that are not okay.

We all have to do our research and carefully consider what we do and do not want for ourselves and our babies.

And, if there's something you don't want...then simply don't allow it. It's your baby. Remember the gorillas...

Yes, Jessica, I did really like the imagery of the gorillas. Very powerful. I got so carried away I forgot to say "thanks for sharing"!

ETA: But thanks everyone for not flaming me on my last post! lol. I know these interventions are a *really* hot topic here on MDC and I have seen pp get a little mean about them on other boards here. I really love you guys!

[sorteep]

for the record... "they" don't have the oral vit K,,YOU have to provide it and I would NOT tell them you are giving it,, they won't let you in most hospitals, so just refuse and smile and slip the baby the drops yourself,, soooo BE prepared before you go in and get it yourself ASAP so you ahev it.. also it is advised to dose mom 2 wks before EDD (or earlier if you think you might go early) I will post link in a min.

The MW was VERY clear that at Bryn MAwr hospital (where they trans to) absolutely, under no circumstances allows any parents in the nursery, no mater what, they cited HIPPA regs... we are still working on it

and, yes, the MW advised NO bath at hospital for the time in nursery factor...

I can see my DH getting arrested over this.. hopefully it will be a non-issue...

[sorteep]

dbl post

[sorteep]

link

http://www.birthwithlove.com/categor...s%2DOral+Vit+K


(sorry for perpetuating the post hijack.....) I know this was not the original intent.........

still digging the gorilla imagery (it does not offend me but might some..) I just appreciate teh powerful primal maternal instincts of animals,, I did not interpret it as being compared to a gorilla exactly...

[Isaac'sMa]

Laura, thanks for the link.
Jessica, again, sorry.