WWYD - Running away when you've said "Stop"

[sofiabugmom]

DD is 5, and has always been spirited and feisty. In fact, most of the time we're fine with that. But I'm about to lose it regarding her running away when I've told her to stop.

The latest incident was today. We were in the enclosed playground/garden of our apartment complex. She decided to climb up a rock garden, and I told her she needed to come down, since (1) I didn't know if it was okay to climb up there and (2) it was pretty steep and precarious with several thorny plants and sharp rocks. I went over to her to give her my hand and help her down when she swung out and hit me. Since we have a no hitting rule, I told her that playground time was over and it was time to go in. She started yelling "NOOOOOOO!", climbed down and took off running. I started walking after her, telling her to stop the whole time, but then I had to run to catch up with her. The only reason I did catch up to her was that she ended up in a corner of the fencing. Then she had the physical "meltdown" (where she goes "boneless" and lets herself fall to the ground), so I helped her up to walk back and get her tricycle to go home. She wriggled out of my grasp, yelled NOO again and took off. Once again I had to run after her. Part of the time she's upset, part of the time she's giggling. I'd catch her, grab her arm, she'd "melt" again, complain about falling, get up and run away again. Meanwhile I'm trying to keep my cool and not scream at her (there was another mom and kid in the garden, so I didn't want to make any more of a scene then there was). Finally I caught her, picked her up, got our stuff (I'd had to abandon the tricycle to catch her) and we went up to the apartment. The whole walk back I was steaming. I told her she was NOT to run away from me when I yell stop to her, but she didn't seem to even care.

I just don't know what to do. Everything had been fine before this. I'd had to stop her from sticking her feet in the garden pool, no resistance. I'd asked her not to pick fruit off of the garden tree, she found one on the ground instead, no big deal. Then this. :

I can deal with tantrums, not my favorite thing to deal with but it's doable. But the running away has got to stop. What if this hadn't been an enclosed garden? What if I'd been in the grocery store parking lot with her?

Any ideas? And belated thanks for listening to the saga.

JA

[dubfam]

I try not to chase Owen when he runs off. It isn't as much fun to run away if no one is chasing you

Of course there are times that you have to chase them if it is dangerous.

But I have been struggling with this for about a year and I have finally discovered that if I just don't chase him, he stops running. He isn't doing it as much anymore.


I am sorry you are going through this. I know how frustrating it can be, and it can get dangerous.


Hopefully you will get some good advice

[ann_of_loxley]

wwid.... I wouldnt run after! lol
I am not comparing children to dogs ...but its the best example I can think of!...When you run from a dog, it keeps running after you! If you stop, it will stop. I use this basic principal with my son.... If he decides to go somewhere other than my directions, I stop and wait...he will eventually stop and continue to follow me instead (say we are going for a walk are leaving somewhere etc)... My friend said it would never work with her daughter because she doesnt care...and perhpas that is a point (as my son doesnt like it when I leave the room, let alone stand up to leaving him behind if he doesnt come with me in the direction we must go! lol), but its the only advice I can offer! hehe My dh on the other hand runs after him and of course he keeps running then! lol -at least my dh needs the exercise hehe
Just make sure she is safe and try not to panic too much! hehe

[sofiabugmom]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I see your points on why running after her just encourages her to run more. And I'll try to remember that in the future, as long as we're in a safe environment.

But my first reaction in this particular case is: The reason she was running was to avoid going inside as the consequence for hitting me. Should I still just let her run from me? And it also happens when we're out running errands and I need her to stay near me while I'm standing in line or going into a place of business. Any ideas on how to handle it in those situations?

Thanks again.

[ann_of_loxley]

this is sort of tough and I am afraid I dont know what to suggest hun!
Its easy for me - my son is only 2 - so I make it simple, you can walk 'near' me (not to run off) or go in your buggy! I would explain to him why (safety reasons you need to stay near mummy etc) and he eventually got it that if he wanted the freedom, to stay near me and not run off (or pull everything off the shelves hehe)...cant really use a buggy for a 5 year old though can you? lol Id like to think weve nipped this in the bud now hes younger so we wont have this issue when he is older...but I guess you never know!...I will pay attnetion to others replies hehe

[gaialice]

Originally Posted by sofiabugmom

The reason she was running was to avoid going inside as the consequence for hitting me.

Thing is, while when they're little and/or the car is near, going away is a reasonable consequence to hitting and in general not behaving while at a playground or playdate. However, in the context you describe, it is going to be really difficult to impose that particular consequence. I am not big into consequences, so : Maybe you can think of a different consequence?

As for leaving the park - in general - (so not as a consequence) I think being playful is what works best, for example recently I will say, "Need to go now. I walk very slowly - but I know your legs are rrreally fast. I bet you can reach me before I am even out of the park."

As for not running away from you when you are running errand, etc, the only advice I have is to go through the scenario beforehand, let her know exactly what will happen, give her tasks, keep her busy, keep talking to her about stuff.. .

[mistymama]

My son went through a running away phase, but he was more like 3. After a terrifying incident at Target where I could not catch up with him and he ran out into the parking lot, nearly got hit by a car and a kind man caught him for me .. I knew something HAD TO BE DONE.

We started the rule that he would be allowed to walk freely on his own as long as he stayed right with me. The second he strayed away, he went right into the shopping cart. It sounds harsh .. but I wasn't about to ever risk his safety again!!! He learned very quickly because he wanted to walk on his own.

[sofiabugmom]

Originally Posted by gaialice

Thing is, while when they're little and/or the car is near, going away is a reasonable consequence to hitting and in general not behaving while at a playground or playdate. However, in the context you describe, it is going to be really difficult to impose that particular consequence. I am not big into consequences, so : Maybe you can think of a different consequence?

Gaialice, I'm not usually into consequences either. But being physically assaulted by DD when she doesn't get her way is a major no-no ... we do not spank or slap in our house, so it's not like she's following an example. She's just mad and lashing out physically, which we've always told her was a bad way to handle anger.

As far as the context, what exactly do you mean by difficult to impose? Not trying to be snarky, I promise. Do you mean in terms of distance? To take her back to the apartment just means going out of the gate, into the building and up the elevator three floors. It's the equivalent of going to the parking lot from the middle of a public park. Or do you mean in terms of hitting me and then having me take her home, instead of hitting another person and me taking her away from that person so as not to harm him/her? I think it's the latter, but just want to make sure.

*sigh* I think I need to start another post asking "how to help a child learn to not hit". I'll start drafting that shortly ...

[chfriend]

In that situation, when she was on the rock wall I would have said something like: "I feeling really uncomfortable because that doesn't look safe to me. What's your safety assessment?" She would have told me what she thought about it and whether she thought it was safe. If I was still uncomfortable I would have either told her that I'd be more comfortable if I "spotted" her or asked her if she would be willing to come down 'cause I was still feeling kinda freaked out about it.

If she knocked my hand away when I put it out to help her, I would say, "Hey, you just need to let me know you don't need it. I'll back off."

HTH

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by sofiabugmom

As far as the context, what exactly do you mean by difficult to impose?

Difficult to impose as in you have to run around and catch her. Your description of taking her home did not sound exactly easy

My ds has never been one to stop on command (or do anything on command). He will, however, be careful if I yell something more productive, like "watch for cars!" At a playground situation where there was no danger, he would have run. If he is trying to hit me, I move away so he can't. In the rock climbing situation, I probably would have just pointed out the thorns and expressed my concerns but let him decide to come down on his own. I'm sure he would lash out, too, if he thought I was going to pick him up and take him away. I avoid putting him in situations where he might lash out because I figure the less he does it, the less of a habit it will become. Worse case scenario in the rock climbing situation is that he would have gotten a bit scraped up. I don't consider that a safety issue that requires my forcing him to comply. I would stand close and spot him if it seemed prudent.

[hippymomma69]

I have SO been there....and I don't always deal even as calmly as you.

But, just in reading your post, it occured to me that there might have been something else going on rather than just not wanting to take the consequence. It sounds like maybe there had been several other "nos" before the rock wall and maybe DD was feeling hemmed in and didn't know how to deal with her frustration. So she took it out on you by hitting. Then she was trying to "reconnect" with you by playing chase (you mentioned that she was laughing sometimes). I know it sounds crazy but when my DD starts the chase game, that's just what it is to her....a way to burn off energy and connect with me in a non-contact way.

Sometimes I think kids just assume we think like we do...if this were another kid coming after her, you DD might assume it was an invitation to play, right?

Anyway, sometimes, when DD is in "chase mode" I indulge her and chase her around, making a big deal out of it (growling, acting like I almost get her, etc) and then when she is sure of our connection, she is ready to comply with my demand. It's worth a shot the next time your DD is running away....

hth
peace,
robyn

[sofiabugmom]

Thank you all for the replies.

I think I may have given a few too many "no's" to DD at the playground. We just moved here a month ago and I'm still learning the rules of the place (and the language, since we moved to Bulgaria), so she probably let her frustration build up and then lashed out when the last straw hit the camel's back.

Anyway, I like the idea of focusing on safety and "spotting" her on the rock fountain. I normally don't stop her from climbing, but again, new place and really sharp rocks.

Oddly enough, the backing away when she tries to hit me is what I usually do, followed by an even keeled yet stern, "We do not hit, hitting hurts" or the like. I don't know why it affected me so strongly today. Maybe the stress of living seven time zones and one ocean away is starting to bug me more than I anticipated.

I'm noting all of these -- keep 'em coming!

[newmommy]

Does she always run away from you? Or was this an isolated incident?

DS ALWAYS runs away from me. And he's 4. He's so bad about it, I hold on (discreetly) to his shirt when we are out in Public.

So, I do like a PP suggested. Give him a rule, if you don't stay by my side or you run off from me (which I can promise you he will first chance he gets), into the shopping cart you go. I get all sorts of weird looks from people because they see this Big Kid in the shopping cart.

But then I see Kids in the big part of the shopping cart. I'm talking Age 8+ but I don't judge.

Okay, off my soapbox, OP

But I know if that was DS as described in that situation, I would have been seen carrying a kicking and screaming child home. My DS is strong willed like that.

[loraxc]

It sounds like maybe there had been several other "nos" before the rock wall and maybe DD was feeling hemmed in and didn't know how to deal with her frustration. So she took it out on you by hitting. Then she was trying to "reconnect" with you by playing chase (you mentioned that she was laughing sometimes). I know it sounds crazy but when my DD starts the chase game, that's just what it is to her....a way to burn off energy and connect with me in a non-contact way.

Yeah, I was thinking along these lines too, because I think that's how I would interpret an incident like this, esp. with the laughing--and we do have incidents JUST like this.

I also do time-outs for hitting only. Weirdly, DD has never hit me in public. (: What's that about, I wonder? Never realized it till just now.) I think, once I'd "caught" the runaway kid in this sitch, I'd insist that we sit down together and talk about how it really scares me when she runs away, and give examples as to why. I don't know what I'd do about following through or not on TO.

[Fuamami]

I would second (third? fourth?) the not chasing a five year old. Sometimes my dd runs off when we try to leave the park. I just say "We're going!" and go. I go slowly enough that she can catch up, but I've always got two other ones in tow, so chasing isn't an option anyway.

[rainbowmoon]

: my 3.5 yo is a runner (and at the worst moments ever too!) looking for advice too!

[gaialice]

Originally Posted by sofiabugmom

Gaialice, I'm not usually into consequences either. But being physically assaulted by DD when she doesn't get her way is a major no-no ... we do not spank or slap in our house, so it's not like she's following an example. She's just mad and lashing out physically, which we've always told her was a bad way to handle anger. As far as the context, what exactly do you mean by difficult to impose?

Hitting IS a major no-no. Of course. And it should be met with - as you rightly say - a stern response. That's enough of a consequence. Taking her home is a consequence that is difficult to impose, because it is likely that the 5 yo will run away and try to avoid the parent-imposed consequence.

The situation you describe really doesn't come across as a "teachable moment". There were too many factors symultaneouly in play: safety, different appreciations of the degree of safety, etc. I am not saying you should let her hit you and put up a happy face. But then, there are moments in which kids will just not learn (adults too, in fact)...

[*clementine*]

Originally Posted by chfriend

In that situation, when she was on the rock wall I would have said something like: "I feeling really uncomfortable because that doesn't look safe to me. What's your safety assessment?" She would have told me what she thought about it and whether she thought it was safe. If I was still uncomfortable I would have either told her that I'd be more comfortable if I "spotted" her or asked her if she would be willing to come down 'cause I was still feeling kinda freaked out about it.

If she knocked my hand away when I put it out to help her, I would say, "Hey, you just need to let me know you don't need it. I'll back off."

HTH

Oh. I want to be you.........
Responding like this works so well for us, and I always forget to do it if my life has become stressful in other departments.
Thanks for the reminder.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by sofiabugmom

We just moved here a month ago and I'm still learning the rules of the place (and the language, since we moved to Bulgaria), so she probably let her frustration build up and then lashed out when the last straw hit the camel's back.

I know that when children are confronted with stressors, they often regress. Both you and your DD are currently experiencing a great deal of stress (even if its positive - even if its fun to learn about a new place and explore everything). Running away from mama is pretty typical behavior for a younger child - maybe she is just feeling the need to be younger for a little while.

I like the ideas in this thread, especially Chfriend's responses.

I think I hear you are worried about her acting like this all the time - in the grocery store, at the park, etc. Hopefully as she feels more secure in this new place her behavior will be less challenging. In the meantime you might consider responding to her like she was 2-3 years old by lowering your expectations and increasing how close you have to stay to her when out in less safe places. Not to "baby" her or insult her in any way but just to support her where she is right now, and the insecurity she might be feeling about major life changes.

[mamaduck]

You already have a lot of great responses, but I also want to throw in another thought -- its usually best to wait until you are in a stable situation to articulate a consequence.

She hit you, and you decided to take her inside -- which is fine -- but I would have waited until she was down from the wall to tell her that. Probably, I'd have held her on my lap (nicely) or held her hands or something while I told her -- anticipating a fit.

I don't know that I'd have used the consequence of going inside -- I might have just said, "Hey - don't hit me! If you don't want help, you can just say so!" But I think its entirely reasonable to go inside, and This is how I would have articulated it, on the ground: "A few minutes ago you hit me, and thats not okay with me. I feel ready to be done at the park now, because hitting is not fun for me. Its time to go in."

Its helpful to remember that you don't always have to respond immediately. You can take a breath, count to ten, wait until you are in a stable situation, and then address what happened.

As far as the runnning thing -- yeah, don't chase her anymore! At five she knows its not safe to run into the street (I hope!) I would have turned around, picked up the trike, and started walking. She could run and hide or whatever floats her boat, but after a few minutes she would see that I'm not playing that game. If I got to a distance where it was no longer safe (if she was literally being left alone) then I would sit down and wait. But I would not give any attention to the running thing. I hate that game!