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IS Breastfeeding "Easier" than FF? - Page 7

post #121 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by KellMcK View Post
Speaking as a mom who was able to breastfeed for a while but switched to formula (not going to go into my story here - that's not the point) - I feel that breastfeeding would have been much more convenient:
- can feed wherever, whenever, don't need to wonder if you packed all your feeding supplies in the diaper bag
- you don't have to worry about when you're going to run out, or where to buy on sale, who's got it on sale, and do I have a coupon somewhere?
- there are nipples to wash but it's no big deal since you're in the shower anyway
- no having to make bottles!

I really think that breastfeeding is way more convenient than formula feeding.
I second all of this.
post #122 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by ananas View Post
There is no good formula. There is no formula that is anywhere NEAR breastmilk in terms of quality.

Could there have been a reason he was puking up the breastmilk that you didn't look into? An allergy? Perhaps he was sensitive to dairy or wheat or any other food?
It's for another thread, however, I will state that sometimes despite the best effort of the mother, the baby is still reacting to bm. I learned something new, it wasn't what I was eating, it was what I was not eating or taking -- Enzymes and Probiotics and making my milk more acidic believe it or not to ease the reflux. However, he is still failure to thrive, despite my DF,GF diet. I've held off FF, against docs advice, I found a doc to support pumping and fortifying bm to give him more calories. Despite that, he is still FTT and not meeting milestones, something is terribly wrong. I'm still not convienced weaning him is the best solution, but he is running out of time and needs nourishment.

In addition to the above, I have come to realize there comes a point where a choice might need to be made for some mothers -- breastmilk or actually living a life. I have neglected my house, my other 3 children and my dh since the dx of FTT. Plus I lost my milk supply in this ordeal due to his not wanting to nurse and I didn't realize he was not nursing the way he should. So, I've been trying to re-establish my milk supply which was going well until I ran out of DOM, then my supply fell again and I have not been able to restore it.

This entire experience has given me a more accepting attitude of formula feeding. I never wanted to FF my first, I simply could not (long story, but I didn't get any help from the hospital LC and it was probably as easy as tongue tied - no engorgement ever happened, no milk came in, nothing, it's like I never even had the baby other than my c/s scar and terrible ordeal with that). So, from a stubborn will not let FF touch the lips of my children to accepting Formula as a medical necessity -- I've changed.

Until you walk in the other woman's shoes, you can not judge her PERIOD.
post #123 of 420
when i am going out for a few hours i dont take a bag unless i need to use it for the things i buy i dont think about taking a diaper or wipes nothing pick up baby get dd and gone no botles no nothing dont matter if i am late i dont worry about hunger food is always warm fresh and ready ohhh ya how i love cd's:

i ff my foster ds bf my 2 never change to ff ever with my dd was clw before she was ready i had to end up giving her bottles from 17.5m to 3.5y wish i knew about mdc then i would of known how to get her back bfing it was a royal pain to be getting up min.3X a night to make her a bottle cleaning them thiking ahead umm we are going out for X hours i will need X bottles and god forbid you are out past the last bottle and if you get stuck somewhere and cant make it home it is stressful the worst time was when we had no power for 2 days now with my ds power outages was a brease his food never spoiled never worried about the water cleaning nothing at all "just lift 2 feed" now lets get to cost no matter what form of ff you chose it still costs money to buy it then nipples, bottles and brushes the time to clean them always thinking ahead making sure you dont run out of anything
post #124 of 420
I personally think breastfeeding is easier for many reasons already stated. But I thought I'd mention another reson I think moms feel pressure (or the desire to )switch to formula in the US.

Our society prizes independence over attachment. Needing someone else is seen as a weakness. I believe on some level - maybe not even a conscious one - many women feel like there is something weak or unhealthy about encouraging their children to be physically & emotionally attached in the way that occurs with breastfeeding. Which is not only untrue (obviously to anyone @ MDC ) but is also very very sad

Please don't misunderstand - I am NOT saying that ff moms are never AP - I am saying that moms who instantly graviate towards bottles and formula rather than nursing may be falling into this sad part of the american mindset.
post #125 of 420
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ananas View Post
I actually had to check to see if I was still on MDC. :

There is no good formula. There is no formula that is anywhere NEAR breastmilk in terms of quality.

Could there have been a reason he was puking up the breastmilk that you didn't look into? An allergy? Perhaps he was sensitive to dairy or wheat or any other food?
Goats milk is actually VERY similar to human breast milk. I was Using Fresh Goats milk that was supplemented with flax seed oil and vitamins. No, not as good as breast milk, but a heck of a lot closer than any commercial formula you can buy.


Believe me, by the time we switched to formula I was eating about 5 foods. We were trying everything. Eventually I gave up when he had FTT and was down to his 4 week weight at 5 months of age. Trust me, we tried to figure it out.

I can't believe how rude some of the posts are getting about formula. There are a lot of people who don't have a choice. This thread was going along nicely, but I think it is starting to get ugly.

I think that some women can't even hear the word "formula" w/out flying into a rage.
post #126 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpybear View Post
Well, not necessarily because not everyone has a dishwasher. And it's very hard to use an argument that applies to all families because not all families are the same. Different lifestyles. AP families or not? Living in the United States? Which demographic? etc etc
I agree with you that the answer for this is not the same for every family -- some families have issues that make FF more difficult -- no dishwasher, no running water, no money (if you have to work OT to pay for the formula that's certainly not easy), etc . . .

Similarly, some families have issues that make BF particularly difficult -- work committments, multiple infants, babies with problems like tongue tie or dysphagia, mothers with issues like thrush, mastitis, oversupply, undersupply etc . . .

I am a big believer in BF, but I worry that when expectant/new mothers are told "BF because it's easier" they'll quit when it isn't easier -- and while BF may be easier for most mothers in the long run, it isn't always easy in the beginning when most moms are making the decision.

On the other hand, if a mom is told -- BF, it's healthier for your baby, that's almost guaranteed to be true (barring a few conditions like galactosemia), and it may give her the motivation to persevere through hard times.
post #127 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubfam View Post
I can't believe how rude some of the posts are getting about formula. There are a lot of people who don't have a choice. This thread was going along nicely, but I think it is starting to get ugly.
Disagreeing with you doesn't = getting ugly. As I said, I've FF and lived to regret it. It's just so old hearing people say things like "lots of people don't have a choice". Yes, lots of people DO. Very FEW people do not.
post #128 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemizflava View Post
when i am going out for a few hours i dont take a bag unless i need to use it for the things i buy i dont think about taking a diaper or wipes nothing pick up baby get dd and gone no botles no nothing dont matter if i am late i dont worry about hunger food is always warm fresh and ready ohhh ya how i love cd's:

i ff my foster ds bf my 2 never change to ff ever with my dd was clw before she was ready i had to end up giving her bottles from 17.5m to 3.5y wish i knew about mdc then i would of known how to get her back bfing it was a royal pain to be getting up min.3X a night to make her a bottle cleaning them thiking ahead umm we are going out for X hours i will need X bottles and god forbid you are out past the last bottle and if you get stuck somewhere and cant make it home it is stressful the worst time was when we had no power for 2 days now with my ds power outages was a brease his food never spoiled never worried about the water cleaning nothing at all "just lift 2 feed" now lets get to cost no matter what form of ff you chose it still costs money to buy it then nipples, bottles and brushes the time to clean them always thinking ahead making sure you dont run out of anything
It would be so helpful if you would use some punctuation. I had a really hard time trying to decipher your post but I wouldn't want to discount what you have to say because it's hard to read.
post #129 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by katheek77 View Post
Who are these people that religiously sterilize bottles and take 5 minutes to make up a new one?
I pump and supplement, and while pumping is a pain, the "bottle" part isn't very hard at all...

Holy cow. I think the only time I "sterlized" a bottle was when I first bought them, and that was just the ol' "sterlize before use". Otherwise, I toss the used ones in the sink and wash them when I do the rest of the dishes. Mixing up a bottle of formula (or getting a bottle of bm set)? Before bed I make one up and put it in the fridge...when DD wakes, we pop the bottle in her mouth...no warming, no stumbling around in the dark mixing random amounts of powder with water...

And, as for washing pump parts...I just put them in the fridge when I'm done and wash them every few days...if milk stays good for a week in the fridge, any pump part residue should be ok, I figure...haven't had any problems yet...

BF-ing is probably more convenient, but I don't think FF is any "harder" other than the foresight to make a bottle up if you're going somewhere.
I've NEVER met a FF mother who sterilizes her bottles. I just don't understand where all these people on here are coming from. I just can't imagine that the average FF mother/parent actually sterilizes the bottles.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Momily View Post
Also, some of the arguments people give about why FF is hard make no sense to me -- sterilizing the bottles -- um the dishwasher does that, you just rinse the stuff and stick it in, it's no more difficult than washing the glasses I use. Heating the formula -- my DS took it straight from the fridge by 4 weeks, but if your DC doesn't like it you can mix it with warm water. Getting up to go to the fridge -- I just kept it in a cooler with an ice pack. If your child likes it warm you just put the bottles with the powder by your bed and add some warm water from a thermos (also by your bed) It takes 15 seconds and doesn't require going anywhere.
Exactly what I do! My DS prefers his formula cold, as well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by laohaire View Post
Um, not everyone has a dishwasher? Is this some elitist thing? I don't mind the suggestion, but the sarcasm was a little unnecessary. Obviously if someone has a dishwasher (and in working order), it will probably occur to them to put the bottle in it. If you're reading posts by mamas who are washing by hand, did you really think that they had a dishwasher and just never thought about using it?
I do not have a dishwasher, and have no problem tossing the bottles in with the other dishes. Of course, I do dishes at least once, if not twice a day, so perhaps I'm in the minority in that way. But if washing the rest of my family's dishes in the sink is okay, then why wouldn't it be okay to wash the bottles in the same way?

Tap water: Maybe I'm a bad mom then (for using water straight out of the tap), but I don't think I'm alone. I am not going to buy special water to make up bottles, and I don't know of anyone else who does, either. I've always wondered what the "baby water" was for in the store; I guess now I know: the "good" moms use that to make up formula. (Well, clearly that's a mis-statement. The "good" moms are bfing. The bad moms are FFing. And the terrible moms are using tap water to make the formula.)
post #130 of 420
Maybe not mechanically easier (can't hand babe off to someone else to feed while checking out for awhile)..

But bf is way easier than going to the ped. every month for some funky virus, easier than having tubes put into their ears, easier than freaking out everytime someone sneezes in their direction at wal-mart, easier than sucking green slugs out of their noses everyday for the cold that doesn't go away, easier than worrying about if there's going to be a recall on the formula, easier than wondering if I've chosen the right formula that won't make my kid sterile, easier than running out of formula and going to wal-mart at midnight, easier than doing coupon swaps to make sure I got it cheap, easier than making sure my particular formula will be covered by wic, easier than wondering if the bottle has been sitting out for over an hour and needs to be thrown away, blah blah blah...

I had 4 lc's tell me not to feel bad for not being able to bf. They said I simply wouldn't be able to do it. Flat nipples, big breasts, lazy latch, blah blah blah. Never once did I fall prey to the negativity. We kept asking for lc's until one came in and said, "Sure you can do it. But you really have to want to."

So I did. Through bad latches, bloody nipples, growth spurts, and sleepless nights, we nursed. To me, all of those trials were easier than giving my precious baby something man-made and admittedly inferior. Even now, 3 years later- if latching on hurt everytime, you bet your sweet boobies I'd still think it was easier to breastfeed.
post #131 of 420
Regarding the issue of tap water, it really has nothing to do with a "bad" mom, and everything to do with government policy 30+ years ago allowing companies to dump chemicals from their plants wherever suited them. In the state that I live there have been recent stories reported of chemicals that were dumped 30+ years ago have leeched into the water and are in peoples tap water. Unfortunately, because we were really behind on the kind of policy that would keep our drinking water safe, we now have to deal with safety issues of tap water.

And please don't discount the issue of lead, especially if your house was built before the 70's and/or you have old plumbing. There are many children who deal with the effects of lead toxicity everyday so please don't dismiss it with a good mom/bad mom guilt trip. Again, it has nothing to do with moms and everything to do with the fact that the U.S. was 50 years behind the world on actually doing something about lead and we are still paying the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFashionedGirl View Post
I've always wondered what the "baby water" was for in the store; I guess now I know: the "good" moms use that to make up formula. (Well, clearly that's a mis-statement. The "good" moms are bfing. The bad moms are FFing. And the terrible moms are using tap water to make the formula.)
The baby water you are referring to is flouridated water and there are both moms who agree with using flouridated water and those who disagree and it again really has nothing to do with good moms/bad moms.

And reason so many people have issues with breastfeeding
and end up formula feeding after trying or even from the get go are because women have:
*inadequate education from the very beginning
*doctors and health practictioners are often misinformed or uneducated about the process of breastfeeding and the importance/difference between formula feeding and breastfeeding
*new moms have a huge lack of support from the hospital staff, to the ob's, familyetc.
*formula companies spend a tremendous amount of money influencing the public through media, giving kickbacks doctors and nurses, and marketing

and not because some moms are good moms or bad moms. It really has nothing to do with the women involved and everything to do with an industry that makes millions selling infant formula for babies and how they operate, both past and present.
post #132 of 420

I bottlefed my first two

and am 9 months into nursing my third.

Breastfeeding is by far easier. But maybe it depends on your lifestyle. I am a SAHM with no life (lol) outside my kids, so BF'ing is a breeze for us.
post #133 of 420
I have not read all the way through this thread so if I repeat someone else I am sorry.
To me BF is a lot easier. It is more time consuming, but to me I do not have anything better to do with my time then to hold my baby and feed him.
I did FF DS1 for a while because of some meds I was taking and I am not a great housecleaner so we had horrid smelling bottles sitting in the sink if we did not wash/rinse them well right after using them. I have never had this problem with my boobs, bath/shower every few days and I am good to go.
post #134 of 420
We have actually been specifically told by our GI to *NOT* use tap water due to high levels of things such as sulfites in our area (East Tennessee). She was very adament about it.

Baby water is basically purified water with flouride added.
post #135 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubfam View Post
Goats milk is actually VERY similar to human breast milk. I was Using Fresh Goats milk that was supplemented with flax seed oil and vitamins. No, not as good as breast milk, but a heck of a lot closer than any commercial formula you can buy.
Ah, no. You are wrong. Very wrong.

The basic constituents of food; fat, protein and carbohydrates are present in DIFFERENT proportions in goat/cow milk than in formula or human milk. Formaula is cow's milk processed to try and make it more like human milk. Goat milk is very similar to unprocessed cow's milk.

Specifically, there is too much protein and not enough carbohydrate in goats milk for human babies. It causes intestinal bleeding and anaemia.

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mi...ents.html#goat
post #136 of 420
well it looks like this thread went kinda OT at some point but yes BFing is waaaay easier than FF. My DS went through a prolonged nursing strike at about 7mo and because I was not as well informed back then I weaned him and went to formula. It was such a huge, amazing PITA to have to get up out of bed, warm up formula, assemble the bottle, 3 times a night. Make sure I had a bottle and coldpack for storage everywhere we went, find some place to warm it up. Finding gross forgotten thrown bottles underneath the seats in the car was a real treat. Those are just a few.
post #137 of 420
Frankly, I don't think anyone anywhere could put more effort into breastfeeding than I do. We feed every hour during the day so I can transfer little one and half ounce meals to babe and keep my dastardly boobs making milk (I have insufficient glandular tissue and make about 20 ounces a day on average IF I work at it) -- AND I still think what I am doing would be easier than formula feeding or supplementing of any kind. I hate having to supplement. I use donor milk but the concept is the same. Preparation, devices, cleaning... yuck.

(OT and I haven't read other posts so don't know if this has been brought up -- but I thought that Goat's milk didn't have the right balance of fats for a babe?)
post #138 of 420
DS was 3.5 weeks early and had a weak suck. At the hospital I saw at least 2 LCs who were trying to be helpful but just made me feel stupid. One nurse, at 3 AM showed me the football hold, was the only way I could get him to latch properly and stay awake enough. We went home. It was terrible. I was huge and engorged and sobbing, calling LLL people in my area, calling LCs (that never called back grrr), and talking to my LLL aunt long distance a LOT. When he got jaundice and had bili lights at home, DH said "if it's so hard, let's just give him some formula." I made a bottle of EBM and cried the whole time DH fed him, then the baby yakked the whole thing back up. It took us two weeks to get sort of ok bf'ing. I just nursed topless (in a fountain of leaking milk) for weeks. I football held for close to 3 months. If I hadn't made the commitment to DS to do the right thing for him, I would have quit in a minute and FF. But I knew I couldn't.

BF'ing was so hard those first weeks and months. I was blessed that I knew we couldn't afford to FF. And then it was a breeze one day. That's all there was to it. All of a sudden I slept the night through with my baby next to me.

When I went back to work I pumped in a bathroom, two other pumping moms and I went in turns. The next job I had I pumped in a coat closet. I hated my pump, wanted to throw it out the window, but I did it anyway because I could not stand the idea of my DS having formula.

My DD was 4 weeks early and it has been basically easy from day one. She refuses formula (MIL tries to give it to her while I'm at work 2 days a week), she just waits for me. I pumped for her in the beginning, stopped, but will probably start pumping again. I ADORE my nursing relationship, it is the most special time ever for me! It was worth every tear.

Yes, breastfeeding can be very difficult to establish. No one ever told me it wasn't easy. Two people are learning a new skill at the same time, there's a curve to it. Once it's established, it's just so much easier IME, which has only included FF other people's babies.

And as a PP said, I am too cheap and stubborn to pay for something that is substandard when I can make the premium gold standard on my very own for FREE! I like free.

I tell all my friends who are pregnant or new moms that it can be really hard but that I am there at any time of the day, they can call me and if I can't help I can listen and I can find someone who can help. I truly believe that honest education is the most important thing that we lack. Also, I love that article "Breast is NOT Best"... who has that link in their sig line?
post #139 of 420
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
Ah, no. You are wrong. Very wrong.

The basic constituents of food; fat, protein and carbohydrates are present in DIFFERENT proportions in goat/cow milk than in formula or human milk. Formaula is cow's milk processed to try and make it more like human milk. Goat milk is very similar to unprocessed cow's milk.

Specifically, there is too much protein and not enough carbohydrate in goats milk for human babies. It causes intestinal bleeding and anaemia.

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mi...ents.html#goat

Most of the articles I read that you linked to are saying that enfamil is better than Goats Milk.

That is not true, and my son did FANTASTIC on the goats milk formula. It seems that these articles are assuming that straight goats milk is being given?

I never said that it is as good as breast milk, but if you are in a situation where you HAVE to switch, the Goats Milk formula is better than commercial formula.

And my son is extremely healthy. Other than our issues with FTT, he has been to a doc one time when he was 2 for being sick with a flu.

No tubes in his ears, or green snot, he didn't have stinky poop or puke the Goats Milk up everywhere. He actually digested the Goats Milk BETTER than my breast milk. I know that because he spit up Way LESS on goats milk and he didn't have a horrible time going poop anymore once we switched.

I think it is really rude that so many self righteous women who were lucky enough to be able to breast feed their kids have to trash ffing so badly. There are a lot of people who have to switch for reasons beyond their control.

It really makes me feel like CRAP to read this stuff saying that FF kids are sickly, and that formula is the same as Mac N Cheese :


I really can't picture myself coming here for support if I have trouble with my next babe. And that is too bad, because that was my plan since I thought that this was a more supportive board. What a JOKE!

But at this point I am in tears. I never thought that people saying mean things on the internet could get to me. I guess that this is just to sensitive of an issue for me to be strong enough to take the insults. I spent a lot of time crying after I had to switch to formula. It was not what I wanted. I didn't realize that I would get trashed so bad for FFIng my child. I guess I should have just let him starve to death.


It is attitudes like this that just contribute to the problem.

Just be careful breastfeeding up on such a high horse. It is a long fall.

post #140 of 420
dubfam, Mothering.com is a natural family living website. MDCers are supportive of natural parenting and natural feeding methods. It is understood by the vast majority of people who post on MDC that formula is a good thing to have available for *true* necessity, but that *true* necessity is rare. It is a fact that most women could successfully breastfeed if they had better support and more knowledge about it. If that were not a fact, the human species would have died out long ago. The formula-feeding that is not supported here (and, in fact, I believe is prohibited from being promoted) is formula feeding by choice. That is to say that we're not allowed to pat moms on the back and say, "It's ok if you just don't want to breastfeed."

Furthermore, you posted a pro-formula schpiel in the breastfeeding section. What, exactly, did you expect? I'm not saying that to be insulting or rude, but come on... Of course the women who would post in a breastfeeding area of a message board would support breastfeeding. It is exactly the same as going into The Case Against Circumcision and saying, "Are Circumcised Penises "Easier" to Clean Than Intact?" You just have to know your audience.

Now...onto other things...in the spirit of trying to understand... You say that your son spit up your breastmilk, but not the goats' milk formula you gave him. Did you try any elimination diets or anything? I'm wondering if he was reacting to something you were eating that a goat would not be eating.
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