IS Breastfeeding "Easier" than FF? - Page 8

[dubfam]

Originally Posted by lml41981

dubfam, Mothering.com is a natural family living website. MDCers are supportive of natural parenting and natural feeding methods. It is understood by the vast majority of people who post on MDC that formula is a good thing to have available for *true* necessity, but that *true* necessity is rare. It is a fact that most women could successfully breastfeed if they had better support and more knowledge about it. If that were not a fact, the human species would have died out long ago. The formula-feeding that is not supported here (and, in fact, I believe is prohibited from being promoted) is formula feeding by choice. That is to say that we're not allowed to pat moms on the back and say, "It's ok if you just don't want to breastfeed."

Furthermore, you posted a pro-formula schpiel in the breastfeeding section. What, exactly, did you expect? I'm not saying that to be insulting or rude, but come on... Of course the women who would post in a breastfeeding area of a message board would support breastfeeding. It is exactly the same as going into The Case Against Circumcision and saying, "Are Circumcised Penises "Easier" to Clean Than Intact?" You just have to know your audience.

Now...onto other things...in the spirit of trying to understand... You say that your son spit up your breastmilk, but not the goats' milk formula you gave him. Did you try any elimination diets or anything? I'm wondering if he was reacting to something you were eating that a goat would not be eating.

What did I post that was pro formula????!!!!!!!: :

Please...elaborate. Because I am not pro formula in any way.

I just thought that maybe everyone was adult enough to have a grown up conversation without getting rude. I think everyone reading this thread realises that breast milk is better, as I have stated REPEATEDLY, but people have still felt the need to remind me just how terrible I was to give my son formula. And just how terrible formula is etc

The only point that I was trying to make is that FF is much more convenient, easier etc for a lot of women and that is a reason for a lot of ppl switching to formula. I think that we need to be more honest and admit that there are struggles with BFing and that it isn't the "easiest" route. I think that if women are realistically prepared about what it is like to breast feed then they have a much better likelihood of sticking with it.



And if you read my posts on this thread you will see what I went through with my son. YES I tried elimination diets.



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[lml41981]

Here's a helpful summary of how some folks may have read your OP (and subsequent posts). "Formula feeding is awesome. It's eaiser and more convenient. Here are all the reasons why this is true. What do you think? Oh, you disagree? You're so judgmental and rude! How dare you!!!"

The bit about, "Of course breastfeeding is best" smacks of Enfamil, Good Start and Similac basically saying, "Breast is best, but our product is just as good." No, breast is not best...breast is normal. Anything else is a deviation from the norm and if at all possible, a solution should be sought so that the child can be fed normally. If that is just not possible, then it is a good thing we have formula available.

I am sorry if I missed your posts about what you did for elimination diets...there are quite a few posts in this thread and I tried to read them all, but I might have missed one or two.

[dubfam]

Originally Posted by lml41981

Here's a helpful summary of how some folks may have read your OP (and subsequent posts). "Formula feeding is awesome. It's eaiser and more convenient. Here are all the reasons why this is true. What do you think? Oh, you disagree? You're so judgmental and rude! How dare you!!!"

The bit about, "Of course breastfeeding is best" smacks of Enfamil, Good Start and Similac basically saying, "Breast is best, but our product is just as good." No, breast is not best...breast is normal. Anything else is a deviation from the norm and if at all possible, a solution should be sought so that the child can be fed normally. If that is just not possible, then it is a good thing we have formula available.

I am sorry if I missed your posts about what you did for elimination diets...there are quite a few posts in this thread and I tried to read them all, but I might have missed one or two.

No....the rudeness and judegment is in the posts that claim that
most women who switch to formula are uneducated...ie not as smart as you (general you)
Or that Formula is like kraft mac n cheese
Or that breast feeding is easy for almost every woman (I must be a freak of nature)

When that was so beside the point of this thread.

I do not see how it is pro formula to point out some of the reasons that FFIng is an epidemic in this country.

I get the impression that ppl here really believe that the only women who switch to formula are either stupid (uneducated) or lazy (as a pp said) or just think it is gross. There is a real denial about the amount of women who do have serious problems that prevent them from being able to breast feed. THere have always been women who have had problems, but when you are living in a tribe with other bfing women they feed the babies instead of the moms who have trouble with it. That is not the reality today, and most moms who cab't breast feed are left to try and find the most healthy alternative.

Don't ppl here realize that there are babies who would DIE if it weren't for formula???!!!

I think it is horribly overused in our country, but it does have it's very important place in a lot of situations.



.

[momuveight2B]

I have had to bottle feed two of my children, it has been pure hell. The first was born in 1980 with cleft lip and palate and we had to go to formula since there were no LC or pumps for home use like today. We spent a fortune and she was extremely ill with upper respiratory infections and ear infections during her first two years. It was more work than I ever want to remember and very expensive. I believed in breastfeeding before her birth and even more committed to breastfeeding and child led weaning after.

Now with baby #8 I am bottlefeeding breastmilk. Actually we are also tube feeding him. It is a ton of work, not the pumping or breastfeeding his sister but preparing the milk, fortifying with a special formula powder, washing and sterilizing eguipment eight to ten times a day and storing it all. Then when we have to go out to the doctor we have to bring enough and keep it cold and then warm. I warm it in my shirt. Yesterday we were at the doctor three hours longer than expected and I had to hand express into a bottle and into his mouth.

Breastfeeding can be hard to learn and establish in the beginning but once it is done you have a wonderful, carefree relationship for the next four to five years. Parenting is 100% easier once you are breastfeeding. Without breastfeeding I have to rely on a piece of plastic to meet the needs of my child and it is woefully inadequate.

Even though my two could not breastfeed they still are put to breast for comfort because there is something there that they are biologically programmed to respond to in a way that plastic can never meet.

I would never, ever volunteer for formula feeding or even bottle feeding of breastmilk. It is at least ten times the work and I am getting half the sleep.

[jenniepaige]

BF is hands down MUCH easier! Now, it would have been nice if DD2 would take a bottle before she was 9 months so I could get a breather sometimes but wow would I not trade that for the world. The fact that I WAS the only one that could feed her made it that much special. DD1 I only nursed for 2 months and hated bottles. So, I've done it both ways and def agree that BF is easier for countless reasons. Oh yea, and its free.

[Calidris]

Originally Posted by dubfam

Middle of the night feedings were the same thing....keep a little cooler bag right next to the bed with pre made bottles and a thermos of hot water to heat it. I took 2 minutes from the time Owen woke to the time he had his bottle, and I didn't even have to get out of bed.

I've never bottle fed, so I can't offer any comment on the comparison, but I just had to say that if my DD had to wait 2 minutes from stirring to getting her milk, I would have had a screaming, upset, wound up child on my hands. She never actually woke to nurse at night (and often neither did I).
Even in the day time 2 minutes would have meant a bunch of fussing and crying.

[CaraboosMama]

Originally Posted by dubfam

What did I post that was pro formula????!!!!!!!: :

Please...elaborate. Because I am not pro formula in any way.


The only point that I was trying to make is that FF is much more convenient, easier etc for a lot of women and that is a reason for a lot of ppl switching to formula. I think that we need to be more honest and admit that there are struggles with BFing and that it isn't the "easiest" route. I think that if women are realistically prepared about what it is like to breast feed then they have a much better likelihood of sticking with it.





.

I added the bolding. To me, this whole paragraph is "pro-formula feeding." Maybe something is getting lost in the online format that I would be picking up on conversationally. I am not bashing you for choosing formula, just curious as to why you are looking for people to "admit that bf is difficult and ff is easier" on a pro-bf forum: Most of us on this particular board found bf to be easier, a great fit, etc. and are sympathetic to those who were unable to bf for one reason or another.

My bf experiences have not been challenge-free (teething - ouch! ) but I don't feel it has been a difficult thing to do. I think once you get through the 1st few weeks - most bf moms I have met find it very easy (those with extensive or prohibitive difficulties past the 1st few weeks being more the exception than something common.)

[Mandynee22]

I've done both... my DD was FF from 2 months on and my son (a year old yesterday) has never had formula, or pumped milk for that matter.
I think that there are pros and cons (convenience ones, not health ones) to both.
Overall though, I would have to say that BFing is easier. I don't even have to be AWAKE for night feedings. How awesome is THAT??? Mom's diner has been self serve when I'm sleeping since he was about 2 months old.
BUT--- with FFing, someone else could feed baby if I was busy or in the shower or wanted to go out.
I hate doing dishes. I don't have a dishwasher. That's a biggy on the no FFing side LOL
I have a tendency to procrastinate, so running out of formula at the most inopportune times would be a definite drawback.
Not to mention the stains that formula makes and the pretreating and laundry work that they create.

[willowsmom]

Haven't read replies:

"Is Breastfeeding 'Easier' Than FF?"

YES!
I breastfeed my kid because I'm a lazy parent. Seriously. Let me explain. lol
Even though we had so many problems early on...I didn't want to get out of bed to make formula. I didn't want to sterilize and warm up and mix and clean, and get out of bed (did I already mention that?)

I wanted something that was readily available at the right temperature whenever my baby needed it. Breastfeeding does exactly that.

I never had to jack with powders or expiration dates or measuring...I'm a minimalist: "Baby Hungry. Baby Eat. Baby Happy." we're good.

So...yes. If you are able to Breastfeed...why not?

[willowsmom]

Originally Posted by CaraboosMama

I added the bolding. To me, this whole paragraph is "pro-formula feeding." Maybe something is getting lost in the online format that I would be picking up on conversationally. I am not bashing you for choosing formula, just curious as to why you are looking for people to "admit that bf is difficult and ff is easier" on a pro-bf forum: Most of us on this particular board found bf to be easier, a great fit, etc. and are sympathetic to those who were unable to bf for one reason or another.

My bf experiences have not been challenge-free (teething - ouch! ) but I don't feel it has been a difficult thing to do. I think once you get through the 1st few weeks - most bf moms I have met find it very easy (those with extensive or prohibitive difficulties past the 1st few weeks being more the exception than something common.)

I think she was just playing "Devil's Advocate" for the sake of dialogue.

[Mandynee22]

Originally Posted by dnw826

I have never (IRL, I don't know anyone on here, either) met anyone ever who switched to formula b/c it was easier. Because it wasn't "gross", yes, or because they wanted to be able to drink/whatever, yes, b/c of medical issues, yes.

I do. I know several people who never BFed at all because FFing is easier and because "the baby won't be attached to me all the time"

[Electra375]

Originally Posted by momuveight2B

Now with baby #8 I am bottlefeeding breastmilk. Actually we are also tube feeding him. It is a ton of work, not the pumping or breastfeeding his sister but preparing the milk, fortifying with a special formula powder, washing and sterilizing eguipment eight to ten times a day and storing it all. Then when we have to go out to the doctor we have to bring enough and keep it cold and then warm. I warm it in my shirt. Yesterday we were at the doctor three hours longer than expected and I had to hand express into a bottle and into his mouth.

...

I would never, ever volunteer for formula feeding or even bottle feeding of breastmilk. It is at least ten times the work and I am getting half the sleep.

Please tell me how you find the time w 8 children. I'm falling apart w 4 and I am about to give up on the pumping and bottle feeding EBM, we're fortifying w medical grade formula. I bring my breastpump when we go to the docs!!! It's a 2 hr trip there and 2 hr trip back. I plan more time so I can pump before we go in to our appt. Along w food for myself since I'm GF and DF.

And the warming part, well, that is a challenge. Actually bm warm is the only way the fortifier disolves. The Formula straight up Cold is the only way to go since it taste so bad.

Please start a new thread or PM me. I'm at my wits end and I'm tired, my children need me and my dh misses me and they would like clean floors to walk on and a dinner to eat. I live by the pump!!! And on DOM. And I don't want to do it anymore. But I simply can't let go... I've tried for months to convience myself that FF would be okay if he takes it and tolerates it. He finally will take it and tolerates 1 kind. I'm living in limbo of some bm and some formula -- I guess that is okay. I suppose it's a happy medium which I am just not happy with. He's happy.

Oh please tell me there is a way to do it all.

[Mandynee22]

Originally Posted by CaraboosMama

I added the bolding. To me, this whole paragraph is "pro-formula feeding." Maybe something is getting lost in the online format that I would be picking up on conversationally. I am not bashing you for choosing formula, just curious as to why you are looking for people to "admit that bf is difficult and ff is easier" on a pro-bf forum: Most of us on this particular board found bf to be easier, a great fit, etc. and are sympathetic to those who were unable to bf for one reason or another.

My bf experiences have not been challenge-free (teething - ouch! ) but I don't feel it has been a difficult thing to do. I think once you get through the 1st few weeks - most bf moms I have met find it very easy (those with extensive or prohibitive difficulties past the 1st few weeks being more the exception than something common.)

I don't think it was pro FFing at all. She was saying (IMO) that maybe we should better inform moms of some of the challenges that they may face so when/if it happens, they'll know it's NORMAL AND OK. If we all go around saying "BFing is so super easy" then what is a mom to think when her baby's been attached to her for 45 hours straight and still cries and she gets an infection and etc? I agree with her and I'm a hard core BFing advocate now... downright snobby. But I would never tell a new mom that it's super easy because sometimes it's just not. Then when a challenge hits, mom will think "Crap. I'm doing this all wrong. FFing it is because I'm obviously not capable"
It BECOMES easy sure, but it doesn't always start out that way.

[AlpineMama]

Originally Posted by Calidris

I've never bottle fed, so I can't offer any comment on the comparison, but I just had to say that if my DD had to wait 2 minutes from stirring to getting her milk, I would have had a screaming, upset, wound up child on my hands. She never actually woke to nurse at night (and often neither did I). Even in the day time 2 minutes would have meant a bunch of fussing and crying.

I've seemed to have developed an instinct for this. I wake up a few minutes before DS starts stirring. I get his bottle from his fridge, and by the time I walk back to the room, DS is usually starting to toss. He then gets the bottle and doesn't wake up. And in the days, it's true that he wants his bottle NOW. That's why you always can have a few bottles in the fridge ready to go.

As for the whole "is this supporting FF" - I see the OP's point. I don't think it's pro-FF. I think it *is* important to, let's say... "debunk" the myth that FF is very challenging or complicated. I think it would be BETTER to say what other people have stated... "For the first few weeks, it probably IS much easier to FF. But you know what? It's worth it, and it gets easier. Stay with it!" I think that would be more encouraging.

I know everyone says "oh yeah, well you have to work on it" but when you've just given birth and you're tired, and your life is upside down, and you might have PPD, and someone says, "It'd be easier to give yourself a break and FF" I think you have more a chance of sticking with it if you realize the harder path is better. It also gives more credit to the people who struggle with it. It's acknowledging that it can be a sacrifice.

[Electra375]

Oh, I wanted to add to the actual OT...

I have a df who chooses to FF. She has 5 kids. She bf 3 of them some, when I say some, I mean a few months to a few weeks. She believes FF is easier. She also decided to use the excuse she was on anti-depressants and the doc told her not too.

It irritated me, but for her, it was easier for some reason. She co-sleeps so I'm not sure why she thinks bottles are easier. During the day I can see that they are. Especially if you bottle prop which I know she does, or her other kids feed the baby.

She never stated she had difficulty nursing, so I don't truly understand her choosing FFing over BFing, but there are mothers out there that do. I gave her a good e-mail about lazy parenting bfing, but she just was not interested. I didn't push it after that 1 long e-mail.

There is only so much you can do to help another mother move toward bfing. In the end, that woman is going to do what she feels she needs to do. I wish FFing were only used in medical necessity, but that isn't the case. And it is a choice families make similar to other parenting choices and we are not all going to agree w one another.

BTW - I dont' agree w my df's choice. But she is still my df. She still loves her kids. She respects my bfing and I respect her ffing. We can all get along, we all just want to provide for our babies as we see fit to do so and as best we can. PPD does a lot to a mom and I know from experience that bfing issues w severe PPD resulted in FFing in addition to lack of support and knowledge.

The time to support a mother is in pregnancy, not after she's already been ffing and reverting back to bfing would be so that much more difficult.

[Mandynee22]

Originally Posted by OldFashionedGirl

Tap water: Maybe I'm a bad mom then (for using water straight out of the tap), but I don't think I'm alone. I am not going to buy special water to make up bottles, and I don't know of anyone else who does, either. I've always wondered what the "baby water" was for in the store; I guess now I know: the "good" moms use that to make up formula. (Well, clearly that's a mis-statement. The "good" moms are bfing. The bad moms are FFing. And the terrible moms are using tap water to make the formula.)

When DD was FF I used tap, too. Baby water has flouride- at least any of the ones I've seen including nursery water, and flouride is a no-no for babies under 12 months (I actually got into an argument about that the other day LOL)

http://www.ada.org/public/topics/flu...ntsformula.asp

[nummies]

I really think that it is misleading to tell women that FF is easier. Because what happens when they switch from the "difficult" BF to FF? They find out that it isn't easier for them and wish that they could go back. Everyone will experience different difficulties.

I would simply say to women that "Breastfeeding is a lot of work in the beginning, it takes dedication, and if you encounter problems (which may happen because it is a learning process) to seek help. But it is one of the most rewarding experiences a woman can have." And leave it at that.

OP: I really don't think that you meant to be pro-FF. But I can see how some people may see it that way. The last thing pro-BFers want to hear is that FF is so much easier. Sorry that your feelings were hurt. Try not to take it as a personal attack on your mothering skills.

[Changed]

Originally Posted by dubfam

most women who switch to formula are uneducated
Or that Formula is like kraft mac n cheese
Or that breast feeding is easy for almost every woman

It feels personal, I know but really, what in the above is NOT true? From what I've read, what i've seen everything you feel that people are being judgmental about IS true. It's just not something that give a FF mom warm fuzzies.

It is a FACT that poor breastfeeding education impacts the % of women who successfully breastfeed.

It is a FACT that formula is processed, sub standard artificial baby milk.

I would even wager to say that it is a fact that breastfeeding can be easy for most women (with the proper help and education)

Originally Posted by dubfam

Don't ppl here realize that there are babies who would DIE if it weren't for formula???!!!

I had one of those babies. I've never once said formula doesn't have it's place. I was glad to have it as sick as it made me to give it. I'm not about to pretend it was easy to make myself feel better about having to use it.

[momuveight2B]

Originally Posted by Electra375

Please tell me how you find the time w 8 children. I'm falling apart w 4 and I am about to give up on the pumping and bottle feeding EBM, we're fortifying w medical grade formula. ...
Oh please tell me there is a way to do it all.

Oh, I'm not doing it all. I am getting sleep about five hours a night, not in a row, since I have to get up to pump & feed him three times and that takes me nearly ninety minutes. It would be easier to have him admitted into the hospital but that is not good for him. I am a walking zombie.

I expect someone to show up at my door at any moment to either admit me to the psych hospital which would be a blessed relief or to take my baby because he is so sick and my house is a mess and the other kids are eating candy for all their meals. It is just nuts.

Maybe my best tip is get a crock pot. I try to throw something in it every morning. We live seventy miles from the doctors/hospital too.

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by CaraboosMama

I added the bolding. To me, this whole paragraph is "pro-formula feeding." Maybe something is getting lost in the online format that I would be picking up on conversationally. I am not bashing you for choosing formula, just curious as to why you are looking for people to "admit that bf is difficult and ff is easier" on a pro-bf forum: Most of us on this particular board found bf to be easier, a great fit, etc. and are sympathetic to those who were unable to bf for one reason or another.

My bf experiences have not been challenge-free (teething - ouch! ) but I don't feel it has been a difficult thing to do. I think once you get through the 1st few weeks - most bf moms I have met find it very easy (those with extensive or prohibitive difficulties past the 1st few weeks being more the exception than something common.)

Originally Posted by Jörð

It feels personal, I know but really, what in the above is NOT true? From what I've read, what i've seen everything you feel that people are being judgmental about IS true. It's just not something that give a FF mom warm fuzzies.

It is a FACT that poor breastfeeding education impacts the % of women who successfully breastfeed.

It is a FACT that formula is processed, sub standard artificial baby milk.

I would even wager to say that it is a fact that breastfeeding can be easy for most women (with the proper help and education)




I had one of those babies. I've never once said formula doesn't have it's place. I was glad to have it as sick as it made me to give it. I'm not about to pretend it was easy to make myself feel better about having to use it.

: To all of that.