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I didn't know CIO was SO pervasive - Page 2

post #21 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama_lola View Post
It is very sad hearing about babies having to CIO.

I read on another message board about a mom whos 4 month old was "too clingy" and was making life just "too hard" so the mom set her on the floor, left the room, and let her "scream her head off" for an hour. : : : In the mom's words, the LO needed to "Learn not to be so cligy."

I really don't get it.
I read a book years ago (I think it was Milk, Money, and Madness but I'm not sure) where the authors said that in the earlier part of the 20th century, it was common for doctors to have "too clingy/fussy" babies admitted to the hospital for a few days, and denied all contact with their mothers.

I can't imagine thinking that was okay -- but apparently some mothers were willing to do it "on doctor's advice."

Some people have weird perspectives on what's healthy for babies. Once a friend of mine lost her children for 3 months to foster care. I was talking with a mutual friend about how sad it was that the younger children had to stay in separate homes from the older.

My friend said she was more concerned about the older children, since they had some understanding of what was going on, and were probably worried. She thought the 3yo and 17-month-old were "fine," since they had no idea what was going on, and were probably just having fun going to daycare and playing with new kids.

These children had never been away from family before -- but my friend thought foster care and daycare would be a "fun change" for them? I was just astounded that she'd see it like that.:
post #22 of 41
I'm suddenly so angry about the entire thing.

A pp mentioned that people seem to feel judged by virtue of you making a different parenting choice, and ITA. What I don't get is why people feel the need to judge you and say, "You are creating a monster," "She should be out of your bed," etc.?

I don't sit around telling my CIO friends how effed up I think what they are doing is. (And I'd like to, trust me, but I'm working on tact)

Someone I know IRL just tried to call me a lousy parent because DD doesn't sleep well at night - wakes up between 4-10 times depending on the night. She actually said I was being used as a pacifier and that my child only needs to eat three times a day and should really be sleeping in at least 4 hours blocks per night.

Or what? That's what I want to know.

(Dd is only 9 mos)
post #23 of 41
Since parents who inflict CIO on their babies, are suppressing their own instincts because of misguided advice that they HAVE to harden their hearts against their precious infants -- it stands to reason that they have to look for the holes in what we're doing.

Otherwise -- if our babes can really turn out okay even if they're nursed on cue and snuggled next to a warm body all night -- CIO parents would have to admit they're hardening their hearts for no real purpose.

In contrast, AP parents shouldn't feel as much need to "look for the holes" in what the CIO parents are doing -- because we're doing what feels right and what makes us and our babies happy.
post #24 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyboys View Post
I agree with you. I was saying that AP mothers and fathers who do not technically share sleeping space are still "cosleeping" because they tend to address their child's needs in the same manner that I do--when they need their issues addressed. I have zero issue with families who do not share a family bed.

I was talking about the schism in terminology--if it's either CIO or cosleeping, and in that case, parents who attend their children ARE cosleeping (even if that happens in another room).
That's not a choice of CIO vs cosleeping. That's a choice of responsive vs nonresponsive nighttime parenting.

I think it's kind of silly to say that parents who respond to their kids are cosleeping, even if the kids are sleeping in another room.
post #25 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by olliepop View Post
Hey Mummyc - love the name.

My family is Jamaican too and I slept with my parents a lot as a child, but when it comes to MY children, I find that a lot of my family, especially my mother, thinks that CIO IS the way to go. They think he needs to learn to fall asleep "on his own," and that any other route, including co-sleeping as an infant, is spoiling. Same goes for wearing him in a sling, nursing past 3 months, etc. :
Oh my fam are BIG on the whole "spoiling" theory : . I'm often told to put the baby down! She's 7 months next week, and I'm gettng quizzed on when she's gona get off the breastmilk and onto a bottle *sigh*... sleep is where my mother and I agree - that and not leaving a baby to cry for the heck of it.
post #26 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mummyc View Post
Oh my fam are BIG on the whole "spoiling" theory : . I'm often told to put the baby down! She's 7 months next week, and I'm gettng quizzed on when she's gona get off the breastmilk and onto a bottle *sigh*... sleep is where my mother and I agree - that and not leaving a baby to cry for the heck of it.
Heh. My dad was living with us for a while and said that dd was manipulative and spoiled. I couldn't believe it. (She was probably the same age as your dd now)

I told him that was a very mean thing to say and that I'm very sorry his mother talked to him that way.

He laughed it off, but has never said anything about her being spoiled since.
post #27 of 41
I just met with a meetup.com moms group in an attempt to find some other sahm's in my town. The mother of 18mo twins, after finding out that my dd (5 mo) doesn't sleep through the night (why should she?), said, "Oh, I Ferberized them." The other moms there agreed that, "Sometimes you have to," while giving me looks that implied that I just don't know what it's like yet. :

I said, "Oh, how sad for them." I'm glad that they are twins, and at least had each other while they were sobbing. DD and I won't be meeting with them anymore. I'd rather be isolated than preached to.
post #28 of 41
This has depressed me to no end. I read books that say CIO is no longer the thing to do, that things have changed, and I think to myself, "not where I live!" A friend even offered to come over and sleep train my baby FOR ME when I was having a rough time of things.

Recently I overheard a mom saying she turns her a/c on high to drown out the screams. It makes me feel physically ill. Another mom on a mainstream board wanted to read the Ferber book to deal with jet lag! How ignorant can you get?!?

Ugh. It IS really pervasive. I've had neighbors, friends, all kinds of random people just look at me like I'm crazy when I admit my babe doesn't sleep and I won't do CIO. BTDT moms look at me like I am so naive, i just have to get over myself. I've relaxed more now that I'm an old-timer (HAH HAH!) and feel pretty confident about saying "I don't believe in that" if/when people with slightly younger babes ask me about sleep. Some say things like "I didn't believe in it either, but it worked or wasn't so bad" and then there are others that look at me kind of wide-eyed, like "there's another option?"

Of course I don't have a champion sleeper, but I've just found a place of peace about it, and whatever happens on any given night, I'm ready for it, whether it's 5-6 wakings or just one. I can take it (my kiddo is almost one)! :-)
post #29 of 41
Yeah, despite it being "not the done thing" because of all the research about infant mental health etc, it is still pervasive here in Australia too - though I know plenty of mums who have persisted with gentle techniques too. A lot of mums start out gentling their babies, but start letting them cio because babies have reached some arbitrary age, or mum is pregnant again and can't deal with (perhaps a protracted) settling.

It doesn't help that many of our "parenting centres" (colloquially called "sleep schools") still practise controlled crying to get babies to settle by themselves and to sleep through the night. I watched (in sick fascination) on tv a program which showed a couple with a 10 month old staying for a week at one of these centres. They basically did controlled crying straight away, and the parenting expert, who was guiding the parents, told them "it's ok, she knows she's safe because you've been in there to reassure her."

Well, um, she was in a strange cot in a strange room, and daddy went in for about a minute to say "it's ok, go to sleep" every so often, without any eye contact or cuddling, and she was screaming.

Even if there was a lot of "behind the scenes" comforting and gentle bedtime routine etc etc, it was not shown on the screen - so folks at home with a "bad sleeper" could just assume that it's as easy as putting them in their cot and using the controlled crying methods. Ugghh.

I feel like a freak sometimes, because I am the only one I know who stays with their 1 1/2 yr old dc every bedtime until they are asleep (let alone nurses them to sleep). Apparently, everyone else's dc goes to sleep on their own, whether they have done cio or not.
post #30 of 41
DS cosleeps with us right now but that is mostly b/c he's nursing a lot at night still and right now he "shares" a rm with DD. He's bed is in there but he doesn't sleep in it b/c I don't want him waking her up at night. With DD she stayed in our rm in a bassinet for the 1st couple of months and then in the playpen by us until she was 6mo. After that I put her in her own crib in her rm. Although I'm not much for cosleeping really I've never let my babies CIO. I've always gone to DD and comforted her when she cried. I'd rock her or sing to her or something til she calmed down then lay her back down to sleep.

Now DH and I tuck her into her bed every night and I read her a story before bedtime. If she wakes up at night crying (rare) I go sit with her until she goes back to sleep. (sing, read another story, etc) Sometimes she'll climb in our bed in the middle of the night. I don't make her leave. She gets in bed with me in the mornings after DH goes to work a lot too. I don't think it has to be one way or the other. No I don't necessarily cosleep like a lot of moms here but I'm always there to comfort them and if they need to sleep by me to be comforted I let them. I've even slept in DD's rm before for a while at night b/c she wanted me to stay with her.
post #31 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Since parents who inflict CIO on their babies, are suppressing their own instincts because of misguided advice that they HAVE to harden their hearts against their precious infants -- it stands to reason that they have to look for the holes in what we're doing.

Otherwise -- if our babes can really turn out okay even if they're nursed on cue and snuggled next to a warm body all night -- CIO parents would have to admit they're hardening their hearts for no real purpose.

In contrast, AP parents shouldn't feel as much need to "look for the holes" in what the CIO parents are doing -- because we're doing what feels right and what makes us and our babies happy.

I really like your "hardening of heart" analogy. That's really spot-on.
post #32 of 41
Oh, and I also want to add, as an anecdote, that the woman who practices CIO has the LOUDEST SCREAMING toddler I've ever heard, and I've been around all my friends' toddlers at bedtime. Hers is by far the most hysterical. True that some it could be due to personality, but some of his hysteria could be due to his associating bedtime with fights and abandonment.
post #33 of 41
My heart breaks for all these poor little babies being abandoned. :
post #34 of 41
I would love to see some of the research on why CIO is bad, because I know it in my heart and would never do it, but I would like to have an arsenal for busybodies or interested moms.

I genuinely believe (and find to be the case) that children who are gentled and parented consensually are much more able to understand and work with a parent who needs to do something (get in the car seat, hold my hand in the street, time to leave) than children who are used to a constant battle of wills and "might makes right" relationship with their parents.
post #35 of 41
My mom is totally against the whole AP thing, including cosleeping, but she's learned to keep her mouth shut about it. One time I was visiting her when my DS was only about 4 months old and he started crying on the floor. I started going over to him and he stopped crying as soon as he saw I was getting up. My mom piped up, "See, he's manipulating you. He doesn't really need anything." I kept going, picked my son up, glared at her and said "He stopped because he knows I am going to fix whatever is wrong. He was fussing because that's how he communicates at this age. How else is he supposed to let me know?" A few more instances like this and she stopped with her snide comments.

We've known so many people who think DH and I are nuts for cosleeping. However, we also have those same people compliment us on how well-behaved and well-adjusted our kids are .... while their kids are screaming, pulling on their shirts to get their attention, etc. I know we can't change most of these people, but it does make me feel better that I am at least raising my kids to know better than to CIO.
post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by cotopaxi View Post
I know NO ONE in real life who doesn't CIO. . . .

So it's REALLY REALLY hard when I'm exhausted and sleep deprived to continually be asked "is she sleeping through the night yet?" and then when I say "noooo, waking up to feed 2-3 times still," hearing "she's supposed to be over that by this age, right?" No one gets why I would not want to leave her in a room to cry alone inconsolably in the dark. I think the lack of support is as tough as the lack of sleep.

(Bolding by me.) Those folks would be horrified that I'm still up 2-3 times with my 15mo. We've resorted to a "don't ask, don't tell" policy with certain people who "can't handle the truth" about our particular babe and her personal habits. Isn't it odd how people keep asking, though? Maybe their kiddos did sleep through the night at age 5mos, but ours didn't and doesn't and that's that!
post #37 of 41
I was very ignorant about options when I first became a mother - the only thing my own mother told me was that she never let us cry and she always rocked us to sleep. That felt very natural to me, so that is always how I've put ds to bed - rocking and singing lullabys.

Then I heard about - crap, I forget the guy's name - an infant guru-dude who advocates "gentling" babies to sleep by doing just that. I was like, duh! He's probably made millions putting that into a book when I would've given that insight out for free!

When babies can put so much energy into crying, desperate to have their needs met, then parents should be desperate to put at least that much energy into helping them sleep and rest well. IMO American culture is so selfish and me-oriented that it even seems okay to put one's own desires in front of one's children's needs. That's just effing warped.

My dh would be getting served divorce papers if he tried to keep me from consoling my crying child.
post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mean_jeannie View Post
I heard about - crap, I forget the guy's name - an infant guru-dude who advocates "gentling" babies to sleep by doing just that. I was like, duh! He's probably made millions putting that into a book when I would've given that insight out for free! .
Yeah, Harvey Karp! ha ha.
I'm glad he's popular, though, b/c at LEAST for the first 3 months, it seems like people are finally realizing that you can't spoil a baby, etc., partly due to his "fourth trimester" idea.

They're supposed to be independent at 4 months still, according to most of my acquaintances, but at least I don't hear much of people letting newborns CIO or anything anymore.
post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndakkitten View Post
My mom piped up, "See, he's manipulating you. He doesn't really need anything."
I think my response would be, "Uh, no, it means he needed to be held."
post #40 of 41
Or, if feeling snotty "Communicating in order to elicit a response is an accepted means of interaction in my culture."
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