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Not sure I can do this...  

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Long post...

DD was born almost 4 weeks ago at 35 weeks gestation. We did triple feeds and nursed with a nipple shield and got to where she was off of formula supplements completely within a week of coming home. In the week after that, I was having some success getting her to latch without the NS.

DD has been and continues to gain weight really well and is reaching all development milestones on time or early!

But - I have now been battling an extremely painful breast yeast infection along with what my doctors think is mastitis. Since the pain was so severe, we stopped working on getting her off the NS because I couldn't tolerate her trying to latch without it (never had a good latch). She is no longer attempting to latch well without it and I am terrified that we've lost that opportunity. She approaches the NS like a bottle, which she's still on after maybe half of her feedings because she'll nurse for over an hour and repeatedly falls asleep and then is hungry when we stop and she wakes up enough to realize she's hungry. It's like she sees the bottle as food and the breast as comfort with a snack. I repeatedly wake her up and prod her to keep eating, pull her off to burp her, etc. but she still falls asleep. She also has a VSD and I don't know if the falling asleep is because of the VSD, her being early and age, or what! She will DOWN a bottle in no time and will happily stay awake for long stretches when not nursing.

In spite of pumping (see below), my supply doesn't seem to be keeping up with her and she's back on formula at some feedings. She pretty much cleans me out nursing and the pumping gets less than an ounce each time.

Because of the mastitis, I am still pumping after almost every feeding, which makes each feeding well over an hour long for me and means I cannot care for her alone because she rarely falls asleep so I can pump. I can't bear to let her cry while I pump. I have pumped one at a time while trying to hold her, but it's not working as well with a 4 week old who gets bored sitting still as it was with a newborn. (Yes, she falls asleep nursing and then wakes up immediately after she's done.) Dh wants me to go back to feeding her 15 minutes on each breast and then pumping/bottle feeding at each feeding, but I sometimes can get her full if I just let her eat and I don't want to give her any more bottles than we absolutely have to.

I am feeling like the constant pumping and my inability to get her full without a bottle supplement (either ebm or formula) is beginning to genuinely affect my ability to care of her and bond with her. I love her with all of my heart, but other than doctor's appointments and ONE trip to the store, I haven't left my house in four weeks and I don't do ANYTHING that isn't nursing, pumping, or trying to do even the most basic stuff around the house. DH is incredibly supportive, but other than he and my mom, who both work, there's no one else to help. I feel like if I could just make her a bottle and feed her in 30 minutes and then be able to hold her and cuddle her instead of nursing and then handing her to someone else or putting her down to pump would be better for both of us. It would also allow me more than 1-2 hours of time in a stretch. I barely sleep, I don't eat right, I haven't bought even real nursing bras because I had her before I'd gone shopping for postpartum stuff. I don't even have any shoes because my feet are bigger after having her, so I only own flip flops that fit.

I am getting really depressed and am starting to feel downright inhuman. I'm at a loss as to how to function. What am I missing since so many of you seem to actually be able to do this?
post #2 of 24
I'm so sorry you are going through this!

I never had as many problems as you have stated, but we did go through the nipple shield issue. DS would NOT latch without the NS for at least a month or two after he was born. It was a very slow process to get him to latch without the NS. At first, it ended in both of us crying and being frustrated.

It took me a while, but I finally got to the point where I would only try for a few minutes to get him to latch without the NS. I always tried to stop before either one of us got frustrated. Slowly he did learn to latch without it, but it easily took a month. At first it was literally on once every two or three days that he latched without it.

I also spent the first 3 months of his life with him constantly eating or sleeping with the nipple still in his mouth.

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful. I think you probably need some help. Have you tried contacting a lactation consultant? Mine helped so much. Basically all she did was talk to me and let me know that everything I was going through was normal. For me the key was not being stressed and frustrated every time I tried to nurse. Once I got myself under control, nursing sorted itself out fairly quickly.

I really wish I had some great tip or technique that would help you out. I really hope you find something soon that works for both of you! Good luck.
post #3 of 24
I remember having the feelings you are having. You do deserve to feel rested and feel you are taking care of her.

Now that being said:

I chose to stick it out through a couple of those types of issues with my first child. What happened? Each time, just when I was at my wits' end... the problem corrected itself.

Now that I am talking about it, it makes me think of labor: just when we think "OMG! I cannot take one more second of this!"...it means the baby is about to be born. We push through our fatigue, our frustration, our anxiety.... and out comes that beautiful baby.

I believe it will be the same for you with this breastfeeding issue.

I would say "submit to the reality of being at home all. the. freaking. time." right now. Soon, you and baby will be out and about as often as you want... I promise that time will be here before you know it and you will be really glad you can just lift your shirt and "plug her in".

The bottom line for me, however, is always, "Go with your personal Mama instincts about your baby."

Hugs and best wishes,
Bean

PS I had three kids and have EBF'ed them all... I am really happy I did.
post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 
I have been working with a lactation consultant through the hospital. Not sure how good they are, but they have certainly been trying to encourage me to keep going.

How long should I be expecting to stay home all the time and JUST feed her?

I struggled with food allergies and a lot of childhood illnesses, which I suspect were because I wasn't breast fed, so I am really motivated. I just don't know if I can physically or emotionally handle the constant pumping and feeding.

I feel awful that she isn't getting full breast feeding. For the last several days she's needed more supplementing again and I'm not keeping up with her.

I try to remind myself that she's not even at her due date yet, and that will keep me going until next week when we get there at least. Hopefully it'll get better between now and then. If I could just cut back on supplementing and if she could just eat for less than an hour at a stretch I'd be in much better shape emotionally. Maybe we need to try the medication for the VSD, but I hate to put her on something when she doesn't have any clear symptoms.

Honestly, is it normal for newborns to eat for hours at a time all day? I know they do it here and there, but she does it all the time. If we were just breastfeeding she'd be nursing constantly or she'd always be hungry.

Still need support...
post #5 of 24
I couldn't read this and not respond...I'm so sorry you are having these problems.

For the first few weeks of my sons life, it seems like all I did was try to breastfeed, then pump, then use a medicine dropper to feed him EBM or occasionally formula. Over and over and over, all day and night. It's miserable.

I definitely agree about contacting a lactation consultant. Talking to an LC was what finally got all of our BFing problems worked out, she was great. I'm not sure about where you are, but the one I talked to worked for our state health department.

I hope you find your solution soon...

post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by veganone View Post

Honestly, is it normal for newborns to eat for hours at a time all day? I know they do it here and there, but she does it all the time. If we were just breastfeeding she'd be nursing constantly or she'd always be hungry.

Still need support...
yep, that is what newborns do. that is how your milk supply is built, supply and demand. can you nurse in a sling? have a friend teach you how so you can keep you baby on the boob all day.
post #7 of 24
Are you working with the LC on the phone or in person? I think in person would make a big difference.

I would like to encourage you to not supplement with formula as that really can be detrimental to your supply - it confuses your body's understanding of the demand, therefore the supply is affected. Count wet/dirty diapers instead of ounces. The pumping and constant feeding will increase your milk and you and your DD can learn together how to lose the shields altogether.

Eat. Drink water. Have your DH throw something together in a crockpot (I have a great lentil stew recipe that I think is easy to make vegan). Do you have any friends who can bring you a few meals and give you half an hour to shower?

It gets better. I don't know how long it will take, but you will get there. You are doing a wonderful thing for your baby. Preemies need that breastmilk so much and you are giving her the best medicine there is.
post #8 of 24
Oh, I have been there, and we made it through after a long and difficult struggle. Be stubborn and don't give up. You love your daughter very much to be going through all this for her.

My daughter was born about 3.5 weeks early and was teeny at 5 lbs, 4 oz. at birth, 5 lbs at discharge. We had to supplement the first week too otherwise they would have made her stay in the NICU. My DD didn't want to latch on, didn't really care about eating at all. It was rough. I pumped like a madwoman. Between trying to get her latched and pumping to keep up supply and have enough for the next feeding I got maybe an hour between feedings. It was very painful to have her latch on and I got mastitis at the end of week 2.

My number one recommendation is to seek a LC outside of the hospital. Contact your pediatrician for a referral. I worked with a LC very closely - sometimes 2 or 3 times a week and it was my saving grace. The hospital LC's/nurses were useless.

I totally understand how devastating, exhausting, and frustrating the first few weeks are. Remember that your daughter is not even 40 weeks old yet. Things WILL improve as she passes her due date. Give yourself another two weeks, then if need be, two more. Take it day by day if you can.

Yes, the first eight weeks and more like ten for you (and me) are really difficult. Then all of a sudden you're doing it, she's latching on, and everything is so great you can't believe it. It really does get better.

The way I juggled feeding and pumping was to put her on my knees and jiggle them as I pumped. I pumped both breasts at the same time whenever I could. You could try swaddling her after a feed to make sure she calms down a bit and lays still. Swaddling them at this age is extremely comforting and will settle her so you can finish pumping.

It took us six weeks to get my DD to BF exclusively. Until then I mostly pumped and supplied. I started putting her to the breast more. At first it was just once per day for a week. Then twice for a week. I pumped afterwards too. Eventually she got it and we were on our way to better days.

Please feel free to PM me for support or any questions. Lots of luck and sympathy to you. I think you are doing a wonderful thing for your daughter and a great job hanging in there.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by veganone View Post


Honestly, is it normal for newborns to eat for hours at a time all day?
YES!

Newborns eat all the time, especially breastfed ones. It is completely mind blowing, but they nurse when they need it...which can go through phases of being all the time!

Parenting and breastfeeding require a lot from us, but it does ease up.

I am nak right now as a matter of fact! ...to my 20 month old who tries to type with his toes while I am posting!

Hang in there. I will give you all the support I can! You sound like you are already a great mama!
post #10 of 24
Lots of great advice here, but I just wanted to chime in to keep at it mama! It will get better and the benefits to you and your daughter are so worth it. Four weeks may seem like a lifetime now, but it is still so early in your breastfeeding relationship. Try to relax and just rest and keep her at the breast as much as possible. I would also recommend trying to have a go at it without the supplementing and contacting a non-hospital lactation consultant and/or a La Leche League leader for home visits
post #11 of 24
I could've written your post two years ago. We got through it. Here are sone things to remember:

1. GET A GOOD LACTATION CONSULTANT!! I saw 2 "hospital consultants" and they didn't know diddly compared to the $40.00/hour one that got dd nursing

2. IT MIGHT TAKE 8 WEEKS FOR YOUR BABY TO LEARN TO LATCH. It took my dd 7 weeks. WhenI wasn't pumping, I was trying to teach her to nurse. Whe I wasn't doing that, I was crying.

3. It's worth it, but be prepared for constant pumping, feeding and attempted nursing.

4. YOU MIGHT CRY EVERYDAY MANY TIMES A DAY. This is okay. It doesn't last. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

5.Bring a mom is hard and not the fantasy I thought it would be. I thought I'd lose my baby weight and have a baby that I could take anywhere in a sling. Instead, I gained weigt after I had her and had a baby that absolutely wanted to be in bed at a certain time every night. no going to parties and pot lucks for me. It was a big change. But it's worth it.

5. While you're pumping, wear a special pumping bra that alows you to pump hands free so you can pick up your baby to sooth them if they scream while you pump. You can get them at good lactation consultants' offices. THIS SAVED MY LIFE! I couldn't stand hearing her scream while I pumped and being helpless.

GOOD LUCK!
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the support - if I weren't in so much pain I think I'd be handling this all better. I have noticed some improvement on the left breast, so I'm hopeful that means I'm really getting better. DD isn't showing any yeast-y signs, which makes me relieved too. The upside to everything is that SHE'S thriving. She's happy and is hitting all of the development milestones on time even though she's not even at her EDD yet - she makes a ton of eye contact and is responding to noises. She lifts her head and is getting stronger all the time. She can scream when she's upset, but is generally pretty happy.

I'm worried about her VSD and am wondering how to know if she needs meds for it. Maybe part of why she's SO sleepy when feeding is because of the VSD. I don't know how to tell if it's that or normal newborn sleepiness. She also does breathe hard sometimes for no apparent reason. I hate to put her on meds if she doesn't really need them.

My supply is NOT keeping up with her, even with the pumping and constant nursing, so we are giving her formula when she's really hungry and gets too frustrated. I'm trying not to, but I'd rather have her eating something than going hungry.

I've actually called our local La Leche League leader and she never called me back, so I got frustrated. Guess I'll try again to find someone who can come in and help out rather than relying on the hospital ones. We are still seeing them weekly at least, and they have a weekly clinic that we've been to twice.

I'd like to find a support group for preemies, too, but I'm not sure where to start. I'll make it a goal for tomorrow to call around and find some contacts for support.

It's like I can't even find time to give her a bath! There are so many dishes in the sink I can't get to it to bathe her and while DH tries to be helpful he's just not keeping up. Maybe we need to just switch to paper plates for a while!

Thanks - please keep it coming. I really need it and it is helping me realize that I need to keep trying...
post #13 of 24
Hugs! This is the best thing you can be doing for your baby AND family right now even though it seems like the easy way out is just bottle feeding, it is really NOT. You are doing great!

The only major concern is the way you are supplementing, you say that after she downs the bottle she is alert and happy but in the same sentence you say she she IS draining your breasts? It is just confusing since if you are mainly supplementing with BM then with her draining your breasts you should not need to supplement if your supply is antiquate? You see my confusion.

Also quoting Dr. Jack Newman( a well known and well respected Dr and LC from canada), "Babies only learn to BF by BFing, NOT by bottle feeding, cup feeding or finger feeding." also he says that baby that can BFed should be getting all supplementation AT the breast, no artifical feeding methods should be employed. (Also on a side note if you like is methodology you can email him from his website and he WILL email you back with in the next 48 hrs, just don't write a book to him, tell him you problem short and sweet, he gets TONS of mail and does his best to reply to everyone :-) )
Here is a great video (Dr Newman is the man speaking in the video) teaching the proper method to supplement at the breast, especially what signs you should be listening to from your baby telling you when to insert the tube. (a GOOD LC should suggest a method to supplement AT the breast that is similar, if not then I would think twice about calling her a GOOD LC. )
When you stop hearing swallowing sounds that would be the time to put the supplementer into your babes mouth, the increased flow of milk should also help to wake her and keep her feeding AT your breasts.

It does sound like you have nipple confusion, I have lived it first hand (it is the main reason why I am EPing, I could never get her back to the breasts after full blown nipple confusion set in.) So I just warn everyone if you can remove all artificial nipples and feed only at the breast with supplementer if required. That is the only way to "teach" a baby to BF properly. It will reduce your chance of sore nipps/infections and reduced supply due to an improper latch and inefficient milk removal.

Stick with it, YOU are an awesome mom for sacrificing for your babe, doing what you know is right no matter how hard or tiring. You will succeed and have a beautiful BFing relationship like so many of the other moms who posted success stories, these days will just feel like a bad dream a few months from now.:
post #14 of 24
mama- how's it going?
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
better! we are down to maybe 80% of the time nursing without the NS, which makes me so happy. she's getting far fewer supplements too. my infections are improving significantly finally too... i think we're going to make it. i just keep picturing being able to NIP easily and Ella being really efficient... we have a bit to go, but we'll get there. thank you so much for the encouragement.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by veganone View Post
better! we are down to maybe 80% of the time nursing without the NS, which makes me so happy. she's getting far fewer supplements too. my infections are improving significantly finally too... i think we're going to make it. i just keep picturing being able to NIP easily and Ella being really efficient... we have a bit to go, but we'll get there. thank you so much for the encouragement.
awesome mama! you are an inspiration to me. dd is just a few days old and my nipples are so sore. nothing compared to what you've been going thru. i gave up trying at 3 weeks with dd and ds and i desperately wanna stick it out this time! you are incredible! you must be so proud of yourself!
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
i keep thinking that it's worth it for me to stick it out because if i give up i know i'd feel guilty with every ear infection or cold that i think maybe she wouldn't have had if we'd kept bfing... i had food allergies and was sick a lot as a child and i wonder if i'd been bfed if it would have been different.

the nipple pain is still bad, but i can handle it. i just keep remembering that it'll get better.
post #18 of 24
Mama, you can definitely do it! Keep telling yourself that. Just keep going every day. It will get better and better gradually, and when you look back in a few weeks you'll wonder how it happened! It's great that you have made so much progress already.
post #19 of 24
Hey Mamma keep it up!
I know it is hard and it takes a lot out of you, but eventually it will get better!
I experienced a lot of the same issues (mastitis, yeast infections, etc) and ended up having to use a nipple shield for quite a while due to severely damaged nipples. My baby was severely tongue tied which wasn't caught by the mid wives at birth. She nursed non stop, which I later found out was due to being tongue tied and her not being able to get on the nipple properly. In the meantime my milk dried up because of it. I had to supplement with formula and pump and pump and pump. One thing that I found helpful was that when I was supplementing with formula a friend let me borrow this thing that you put the formula in and it had a teeny little straw attached to it, and once baby was latched on, I would slip the teeny straw into her cheek and slowly start dispensing the formula. It seemed to encourage her to nurse more. Also, when I was giving her formula in a bottle she got so she didn't want to nurse as much because she could get it so much faster out of the bottle, so I found that it was good for helping her want to nurse more.
It took us nearly four months of constant pumping and some supplementing to finally get things all worked out. But we were finally able to, and have happily been breastfeeding without any issues for the last seven months. Don't give up, you can do it!
Don't forget to take care of yourself too! You need to make sure that you're getting enough food and liquids so you don't get too worn down.
Another thing I found that made me feel a lot better when I was going through my nursing issues was to get out of the house, even if only for a few minutes every day. Even just a five minute walk to check the mail can give you a couple minutes to yourself and help you to remember you're still a real person too!
It'll get better, keep hanging in there!
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
A bit of a setback yesterday, as the nipple pain on the right was much worse. It's a little better today, thank God. I have a blister on that nipple, too now. I'm finally finished with the Clindamycin so hopefully that will help with the yeast. I'm on a bazillion supplements since I'm also seeing a DCM now. I'm going to let the supply issue work itself out - I'm still producing, just not quite enough. I'm nursing her every 2-3 hours all day and go one 4-5 hour stretch at night. She co-sleeps and I usually wake HER to eat after 4 1/2 hours - we're so lucky she sleeps! She's still gaining beautifully.

I took myself off of the bedrest the doctor's ordered because I was going nuts, so I am getting out a bit. The pumping was also just really draining me emotionally (I was getting genuinely depressed), so I've cut back on that quite a bit and am just nursing and pumping when I feel full or have to miss a feeding for a doctor's appt. I'm going to assume that my supply will increase as she gets more effective at nursing since I'm definitely still producing enough that she's only getting maybe 2 supplements a day. I'm very happy that she prefers nursing to the bottle even though it's more work.

Oh, the nipple pain is definitely from yeast. Her latch isn't perfect, but it's pretty good and is improving as we're getting used to not having the nipple shield - she went all day yesterday without needing it once!!! I actually feel better without it - having my nipple pulled up into that thing I think hurts more than just having her nurse.

We'll get there... I am so looking forward to just being able to nurse my little girl without pain and without having to worry about her being hungry or pumping!
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