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New to TF diet - Healing child with PDD/Autism  

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Hi

I'm new to this forum. I found the Nourshing Traditions book through researching ways to help my son who has been diagnosed with PDD/Austism Spectrum and Dsypraxia.

My questions are the followng:
1) has anyone used the diet with success with their child?

2) has anyone done this without using the elmination diet? We have eliminated gluten and have him on raw milk. We noticed a big difference between raw milk and pasturized with him.

3) I have started also reading about the carbohydrate specific diet... does anyone think you need to follow this first and then gradually go to the carboydrate diet?

Any help with this or shared experiences would be so appericated. I've read so many things - take away gluten and casein, don't take away give raw and soak, you have to elminate first and then add back....
I think my head is spinning.: All I know is I want to help Jacob. Please, please, desperate mommma looking for advice.
post #2 of 15
You're my friend!

I'm doing this with my kids. Had them on dairy for a while--no good. We have no gluten, no diary, no refined sugars (and rare rapadura), and i think they have a reaction to soy, but they hardly ever have it. I did the specific carb diet, but because of its dairy, it doing do everything--tho i realized they had candida because of that. So i still do their nut bread. We have eliminated almost everything; not fun, and i think new sensitivities may be appearing as i have them almost completely whole foods without supplements. i think supplements end up being too harsh sometimes (besides a good clo, of course), and cooking tf, nutrient dense, makes me feel better about how many nutrients they're getting, especially since i won't be making much milk til february. i hope they still nurse then, for the nutrients and the colostrum it'll have. (i'm obsessed with their nutrition).

It's a lot of work!

The most effective thing by far has been a really intense round of homeopathy; that was the quickest. But i feel the diet is really building in them the strength i wish they'd had from the start. we've been gfcf since last nov, when i got to stay out in public with my children for more than 30 minutes without a breakdown for the first time in our lives! it amazes me what an effect food has on these girls.

I'm still waiting to add back. I think it may be years still. But this will get them there faster.

Good luck (and thanks for writing about this--I want to hear from others!)!
post #3 of 15
DS2 is on the spectrum. He also has ADHD and SPD. The SPD makes food an interesting (in the torture sort of way) proposition, so he does not eat an entirely TF diet.

DS1 has Celiac disease, so a GF/CF diet was not difficult to implement for DS2 ... we were already there. And I wouldn't change that at all. The few times he's challenged, it has been AWFUL!

Unlike the PP, we supplement A LOT. DS2 has so many food aversions and then so many foods he cannot eat that, combined, I don't feel that there is any way for him to get the kind of nutrition he needs through his diet. After much research, we decided on Brainchild Nutritionals for vitamin and mineral supplements for DS -- no isolated (synthetic) vitamin A, D3 instead of D2, no iron. Also free of eggs, wheat, gluten, dairy, soy, corn, yeast, refined sugars, artificial sweeteners, colors, and flavors. Basically all of the stuff DS can't have (or I don't want him to have) anyway! CLO and butter oil are also at the top of our supplementation list! He also takes elderberry syrup daily, and a lot of additional vitamin c (acerola powder or SA).

Concentrace liquid mineral supplement is a fairly inexpensive way you can start adding minerals to your child's diet. Available many places, including vitacost.com. (Read the Nutrition and Immunology stickin in the Vax forum for A LOT of information about nutrition and supplementation.)

Another thing that has greatly helped DS2 has been the addition of digestive enzymes to his diet. www.enzymestuff.com Excellent resource, written by the mother of autistic children. We've seen more positive results with this than any other single thing.

Probiotics! TF is great for this as you can learn to make your own power-packed probiotic foods at home, including kefir, yogurt, sauerkraut, etc. A good OTC brand is Culturelle. The thing to remember with the spectrum, in my experience, is the gut-brain connection. We're doing what we can to help DS2's body right itself!

Bone broths, a very TF thing, have been wonderful for DS2. I use bone broth to cook pasta, rice, add it to chili or soups or spaghetti sauce in place of water, anywhere I can sneak in extra nutrition. Smoothies with coconut oil/milk, raw (organic, pastured) egg yolks , greens powder (Vitamineral Green), etc. have been another great nutrition boost for DS2 -- he actually prefers frozen smoothie pops, but however I can get it into him is good with me!

I do anything I can to make our food more nutritious and the nutrients more bio-available. TF is ALL about that! Soaking grains to disable the inhibitors so that your body can more easily work with the nutrients there, adding fermented foods full of good nutrition AND good bacteria, coconut products, etc.

If you want to talk more about this, or want some reading suggestions, or website links, feel free to PM me.
post #4 of 15
Kdmama33 - What enzyme do you use with your ds? I am looking into having ds#1 and ds#2 on enzymes at meal times, but don't know what to use. I highly, highly suspect wheat/gluten allergy in them both; I know I have a wheat/gluten issue too. Actually ds#2 and I both failed muscle testing for wheat (as did ds#3). We are GF, but I know they'd more than likely benefit with digestive enzyme support too.
post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thank you both for taking to the time to share with me. I had a rough night with Jacob and my 1 year old so I was not able to properly write back. I will try tonight after the kids go down to bed. I do have more questions and I appericate the offer to share more with me. I really feel the big question mark on which way to go.... I found a great raw milk source with grass fed cows and I've read about the healing properties of raw milk. I'm feeding it to Jacob now hoping this will help heal. I'm seeing I might need to eliminate this now which is hard. He is a picky eater and I'm always worried about him nutrionally.

I'm going to start another post without the PPD/Autism title and see if more people respond to the next quesiton... which is has anyone followed the Health Recovery Plan from the Weston Price recommendations with their children and seen results.

I apppericate the amazing info you all shared with me and I will be PM'ing both of you if you don't mind. I have a lot of questions... and I think I just need some support too. This hasn't been any easy trail and I have to say most people think I'm crazy when I start talking about diet.

Thank you mommas! I hope there are more out there who share... I think it's very useful to share the things that have helped our children. I will definitely be looking into the enzymes and homeopathy. We just moved into the Atlanta area from Connecticut and I'm still looking for a reputable Natropath who works with these conditions hollistically. I put a post up in the Georgia forums and no one answered. I might have to find one without referral.
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
nicolena, You are my friend too! I saw your post and I was so happy! I was afraid no one would respond.

What type of homepathy did you use? I would love to hear about it.

Also you mentioned, you eliminated most things, however new sensitivies are cropping up... what are you feeding them and are you planning to change the diets again?

I agree that supplement can be harsh but I found some great vitamins and magnesium supplementations that are not harsh for the kids. Jacob is chronically constipated without magnesium and probiotics. I just switched him to raw milk and was hoping to start seeing a difference. I'm not quite sure what to do now.

Sweet potatoes are a staple in this gluten free house, so I'm not sure how that elimination would go either. The Carbohydrate Specific diet is very very limiting from what I can see. Can you pm or post some typical meals or daily staples... I'm trying to figure out how to get started.
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
kdmama33 -

Did you go through traditional medical testing for Celiac's disease? What tipped you off to look out for it? Jacob is three and has been sufferering from chronic constipatation for quite some time. I really have to supplement him with magnesium and probiotics. If he ever misses a dose (and that happened in our move)... he backs right up. If the gluten and other bad things go into diet... backs right up.

We did find our raw milk source only a week and a half ago, so it's too soon to see what will happen. He is tantruming less than he did on pastuerized goats milk. We had been on raw mik in Connecticut where it was easily accessible but it took some time to find it here in Georgia.

When you say no dairy does that not include Kefir> Where to you get your source of High butter Vitamin A and is that like ghee (casein free)>?

I might have more questions later. The boys are done playing independently. Thank you for helping!
post #8 of 15
post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders View Post
Kdmama33 - What enzyme do you use with your ds? I am looking into having ds#1 and ds#2 on enzymes at meal times, but don't know what to use. I highly, highly suspect wheat/gluten allergy in them both; I know I have a wheat/gluten issue too. Actually ds#2 and I both failed muscle testing for wheat (as did ds#3). We are GF, but I know they'd more than likely benefit with digestive enzyme support too.
We started with a good broad-spectrum enzyme. For us, that was Zyme Pryme by Houston ... I started with that one because it's powdered, so I don't have to worry about getting DS to swallow pills, I can just sprinkle it on food. Then we added in Peptizyde, also by Houston, between meals. (Again, powdered ... yay!) Digest Gold by Enzymedica is another good broad-spectrum enzyme.

For kids on the spectrum or with gluten-issues, it's the Peptizyde that really makes a difference. I have read several accounts of people actually being able to add gluten and casein back into their diets after being on the Peptizyde, though I know that's not true for everyone. Like I said, when DS2 challenges, it's ugly. But we'll try again further down the road.

I also give DS2 Candidase by Enzymedica. We are battling yeast with him, and the enzymes (between meals) in addition to LOTS of probiotics and oregano oil is making a HUGE difference.

You mention all three of your sons having issues ... and both of my sons do, too. But my daughter does not. Not at all. No gluten sensitivities, no behavioral issues, no ADHD. She's the third child, too, so you'd think she'd have had less in the way of resources in-utero, kwim? It's really interesting to me that boys seem to be having so many more issues with gut-related problems.
post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by happymamaof3 View Post
kdmama33 -

Did you go through traditional medical testing for Celiac's disease? What tipped you off to look out for it? Jacob is three and has been sufferering from chronic constipatation for quite some time. I really have to supplement him with magnesium and probiotics. If he ever misses a dose (and that happened in our move)... he backs right up. If the gluten and other bad things go into diet... backs right up.

We did find our raw milk source only a week and a half ago, so it's too soon to see what will happen. He is tantruming less than he did on pastuerized goats milk. We had been on raw mik in Connecticut where it was easily accessible but it took some time to find it here in Georgia.

When you say no dairy does that not include Kefir> Where to you get your source of High butter Vitamin A and is that like ghee (casein free)>?

I might have more questions later. The boys are done playing independently. Thank you for helping!
Yes, we had traditional medical testing for the Celiac. Not the biopsy, though, which is the gold standard for true diagnosis. I didn't want to put DS through that, especially when it was SO obviously the issue and the removal of gluten was going to be the solution either way.

What tipped me off? That's a good question ... DS was very, very ill over a four month period (12 distinct illnesses), and my pediatrician just kept blowing me off and saying that kids get sick a lot, it was no big deal, etc. But the kid had NEVER been ill up to that point. And then he was losing weight, and having terrible diarrhea, and then eczema cropped up. I just knew something was. not. right. So I started researching, and I kept a food journal for DS, and I eventually demanded that the ped. test for Celiac and a few other things, as well.

Yep, no dairy means no milk kefir. We do coconut water kefir, though. And I make coconut milk yogurt, which tastes like dairy yogurt when it's finished.

The high vitamin butter oil is from www.greenpastures.org or www.radiantlifecatalog.com . Yes, it is casein-free! No, it's not like ghee. It's a supplement, not for cooking.

Some kids can tolerate raw milk when they couldn't tolerate pastuerized. I know, however, that most DAN! doctors won't even see a child who isn't on a GF/CF diet. Not all kids respond to the GF/CF diet, but it's a common starting place. It was very disappointing for me, too, when we removed the raw dairy from DS's diet, especially as it was one of the few ways in which he would eat protein. But, for us, it's made a world of difference. I think you just have to see what works for you!
post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdmama33 View Post
We started with a good broad-spectrum enzyme. For us, that was Zyme Pryme by Houston ... I started with that one because it's powdered, so I don't have to worry about getting DS to swallow pills, I can just sprinkle it on food. Then we added in Peptizyde, also by Houston, between meals. (Again, powdered ... yay!) Digest Gold by Enzymedica is another good broad-spectrum enzyme.

For kids on the spectrum or with gluten-issues, it's the Peptizyde that really makes a difference. I have read several accounts of people actually being able to add gluten and casein back into their diets after being on the Peptizyde, though I know that's not true for everyone. Like I said, when DS2 challenges, it's ugly. But we'll try again further down the road.

I also give DS2 Candidase by Enzymedica. We are battling yeast with him, and the enzymes (between meals) in addition to LOTS of probiotics and oregano oil is making a HUGE difference.

You mention all three of your sons having issues ... and both of my sons do, too. But my daughter does not. Not at all. No gluten sensitivities, no behavioral issues, no ADHD. She's the third child, too, so you'd think she'd have had less in the way of resources in-utero, kwim? It's really interesting to me that boys seem to be having so many more issues with gut-related problems.
Thank you so much for the info! I ordered both today - I got them in chewable tablets (so I ended up with the AFP-Peptizyde, which from what I could gather is a gentler form of the original) so I can send them with them when they visit grandparents. When ds#2 gets ahold of gluten or food coloring, it's not fun around here for about a week. I have also noticed that being GF this summer has allowed him great leaps in terms of his verbal apraxia and his sensory issues. We find it super easy to keep GF at home; we also limit our going out to Mexican food or In-&-Out burgers protein style. : It's the grandparents that are hard ... they are finally getting the "no bread" thing, but then they'll go give the boys some yucky piece of candy.

I've very, very excited to try the enzymes. I think I'll be trying them too (at least the Peptizyde between meals - though I might get myself the No-Fenol to deal with yeast depending on how I do with the Peptizyde). I have a couple good broad-spectrum ones for me that are horse pills. Having a chewable for the boys is awesome!!!
post #12 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdmama33 View Post
You mention all three of your sons having issues ... and both of my sons do, too. But my daughter does not. Not at all. No gluten sensitivities, no behavioral issues, no ADHD. She's the third child, too, so you'd think she'd have had less in the way of resources in-utero, kwim? It's really interesting to me that boys seem to be having so many more issues with gut-related problems.
I have a friend who's an occupational therapist and deals with special needs preschoolers (ds2 goes to her school to help with his speech delay). She's told me there are always way, way more boys with issues than girls. I can't remember exactly but she might have even said it's a 10:1 ratio. I also have 2 sons. the first has struggled with gut issues since he mostly weaned around 2, and the second didn't say a word until he was 3 years old. HE has since caught up a great deal. We had all of our children allergy tested (ELISA) and interstingly my daughter (the youngest) is the only one with no allergies. The boys both have a bunch - and big ones too like eggs/dairy/wheat. The only other thing I can consider is that my youngest is not vaccinated, whereas the older two are.
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders View Post
Thank you so much for the info! I ordered both today - I got them in chewable tablets (so I ended up with the AFP-Peptizyde, which from what I could gather is a gentler form of the original) so I can send them with them when they visit grandparents. When ds#2 gets ahold of gluten or food coloring, it's not fun around here for about a week. I have also noticed that being GF this summer has allowed him great leaps in terms of his verbal apraxia and his sensory issues. We find it super easy to keep GF at home; we also limit our going out to Mexican food or In-&-Out burgers protein style. : It's the grandparents that are hard ... they are finally getting the "no bread" thing, but then they'll go give the boys some yucky piece of candy.

I've very, very excited to try the enzymes. I think I'll be trying them too (at least the Peptizyde between meals - though I might get myself the No-Fenol to deal with yeast depending on how I do with the Peptizyde). I have a couple good broad-spectrum ones for me that are horse pills. Having a chewable for the boys is awesome!!!
Just FYI, you'll want to start with the broad spectrum at meals first, and then build up to a good dose of that before adding the Peptizyde between meals. And again, you'll want to build up gradually with that one, too.
post #14 of 15
honestly, i did raw milk for a while. they didn't drink it as i was nursing. and i think it had some healing qualities, but overall they improved markedly without it.

and i realized that i did do a lot of supplements for a while. just before the homeopathy, they had their first normal stools for about a week while on zinc, mag, selenium supplements, but then they got a stomach bug and never got it back til homeopathy. even now, it comes and goes, but it's rarely diarrhea anymore (tho i just gave them those rhino echineacea lollipops and...less than ideal stools. sigh). i left the ND who prescribed the homeopathy after receiving them but before giving them, so after reading a LOT about homeopathy (including The Impossible Cure and the materia medica, plus my stepmom's a lay homeopath, tho she would not see their symptoms as ASD), i gave them 200K of Thuya and Silicea on alternating days, with Sunday reserved for a constitutional remedy--which wasn't right at the time, but did help later. It was so intense! One daughter kept freaking out, but when I recognized that she sounded exactly like she did at 4 months with her "late onset colic" (according to the pediatrician--which later i realized started a few weeks after they received 4 vaccines at once). It was 2 or 3 really intense weeks, with night wakings (more than usual), sleep walking, and very unpredictable behavior. But ddb had solid stools after about 4 days, and dda did after about 9 days, and, since they were already 2.25, that was such an inspiration. Their arm flapping really decreased. I just realized it had been completely stopped for at least a month...but the lollipops or something started it again. Sigh. But it's not intense and will be gone soon, I hope. Oh, they could also wake up without crying, and get out bed without an hour to 1.5 hours of reading. Such a change. I have the remedies and would be happy to talk to you on the phone if you want to try them. It's not illegal or anything, since it's just sugar pills infused with energy. But i would definitely read the impossible cure before trying it.

Enzymes never worked for us, but they were in diapers then, and their poo "ate" at them. Maybe i could try again (i still have them), but I'm scared.

We tried the brainchild vitamins (pricey!), and they did all right with the sample, but no good when i tried for more than a week. Probiotics never worked (made their poo frothy) except in "natural" form,--kombucha or water kefir. I know their gut still needs healing, so I try gentle foods and lots of bone broth. For a while they couldn't even tolerate rice, but now they're fine with non-gluten grains; we eat rice cereal for breakfast (with berries and tons of coconut oil) most mornings.

I know what you mean about sweet potatoes; I would probably hold off on the Specific Carb Diet unless there's a candida crisis. Because it has yogurt, and I would really try soon to see what effect getting off dairy has for your son. The complement to TF that SCD has is that both focus on nutrient dense whole foods. TF just seems "wiser," somehow...tho I really wish we could add grains or dairy.

And for a brief while we could--the girls seemed fine, even thriving on goat's milk yogurt. But then ddb got diarrhea. I thought it was a bug for the longest time. Then they because more sensitive to sugar (evap cane juice) and rapadura, even too much honey. And now soy is off limits too (I used to let them have Mi-del ginger snaps and the occasional gfcf AMy's pizza). Now they get a little rash. Even ghee seemed no good (tho I only tried it with one batch of cookies--so maybe it was something else). But when I gave them the casein free hivitamin butter oil, they had a major reaction to that--hyper and arms flapping. There's so much I don't understand.

diet snapshot--So, we eat rice cereal for breakfast, or eggs and bacon, or pancakes from SCD (mainly cashews and eggs; I soaked the cashews and dry ala NT). i buy coconut oil by the gallon. We have a lot of carrots and red peppers and celery and apples with peanut butter for snacks. Grapes. (I don't know what I'll do this winter when it's all out of season--apples I guess.) We also have sweet potato with cinnamon and co a lot, and squash with maple syrup. Lunch is often hot dogs (applegate farms grassfed beef), rice or quinoa salad, or pnj on cashew "bread." Dinner is meat/chicken or fish with two vegggies. Tonight we had chicken stir fry from Eat Fat to Lose Fat (by Fallon)--actually it called for pork, but i use chicken thighs and the girls love it. i serve it over rice or with brown rice noodles. i add extra stock to everything i can. i try to have soup at least once a week, but they don't always go for it. right when they were learning to eat lunch (at a year) we were on SCD, and the poor babes had to eat chicken broth with cooked carrots every day for about a month. Becase every time I added a new veggie, I drenched it in butter and they had a reaction. So all the food now seems like a luxury. We use a lot of coconut milk too--smoothies with berries and egg yolk, and I make coconut milk ice cream.

I know what you mean about the grandparents--my mom just saw jenny mccarthy on oprah, and finally said, "oh mehera, you're saving them." i'm happy that she finally sees it, but i'm sad it took a comedian to show her.

ps--you're all my friends! is there a tribe on h&h or somewhere that i missed when i looked a few months ago?

and kdmama--i asked this recently on another thread--how do you do coconut milk yogurt? where do you get the starter? i would be soo sooo soooo happy with some yogurt!

sorry i'm so rambly. but just fwiw, my girls never really had verbal issues; they fir the other two criteria. no pretend play, no social interaction (no affection or interest toward grandparents, sometimes not even daddy, they couldn't stand people looking at them in the grocery), repetitive behaviors, headbanging, aggression (in one dd), armflapping, and really severe physical sensory issues--baths were impossible, carseats.... they just wanted to nurse and read book ALL DAY. it is just so interesting to me how this "disease" manifests in such unique ways with such gut similarities (and of course, differences there too). my time is up!
post #15 of 15
Quote:
The only other thing I can consider is that my youngest is not vaccinated, whereas the older two are.
there's your answer, imo.
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