WWYD attempted shoplifting

[ejbamommy]

i was absolutely horrified. We went to walmart and i was looking for index cards. i turned around and saw my 4 and almost 7yr old with their backs to me whispering and doing something. I asked what was happening. My 4yr old turned around and was tugging his shirt back down. i asked what it was. my almost 7yr old daughter was having him hide an eraser set that she wanted in his pants under his shirt. I couldn't believe that my children would even think to attempt something like this. i have no idea where she learned such a thing or what to do. my husbands first response is that i should ground both of them. i'm totally against that, but feeling like there should be some sort of something, but i don't know what.
ideas?

[chfriend]

At 6 and 4, I wouldn't call it shoplifting yet....this sounded like it happened on an impulse.

I'd explain that we can't take things without paying for them, discuss strategies for getting the eraser set on the up and up and tell them if I hadn't seen it we'd be open to being in pretty big trouble.

And I'd ask them to stay closer to me in the stores.

[GuildJenn]

I think a lot of kids experiment with this. I wouldn't assume that it's going to make them thieves for life.

I'd actually see if I could set something up with a local store though - one with a security guard, if possible. I'd take the kids in to talk to the store owner/manager to talk about stealing and talk to the security guard about it too. I think that would be a more productive use of time than grounding.

I'd also ask them after that what they think our family approach should be.

And of course as with all moral issues I think modelling is really important - some of my extended family seriously crows if the clerk accidentally misses something or it's a lower (wrong) price or their change is wrong. I think that sends a very powerful message that it's okay to cheat corporations.

[ejbamommy]

i thought about taking them into the store and chatting with a manager and having the manager explain some about shoplifting and such but I wasn't sure if this is something a store would be willing to do. I may call and see.

[violet]

I can't remember the exact ages and stages of development from those child psych classes, but I remember learning that in the stages of moral development, first kids learn parental authority, then peer/community, then absract moral philosophies. So they were probably being secretive because they knew YOU wouldn't like it, with no real concept that anyone else would care or without a real understanding of abstractions like ownership and shoplifting. After all, the things you want to take home the clerk puts in a bag for you and thanks you for shopping. It's like the kid who picks his nose when he knows mom isn't looking, because mom gets all in a twitch about it, but the kid doesn't care that the rest of the entire world sees him -- he hasn't figured out that there are moral/social codes that we all follow.

I'd take it as a cue to teach more about those concepts of ownership and shopping rules. Just because we can see the bigger picture and we know the big trouble shoplifting means, doesn't mean the child is aware of the gravity of the situation. If you think speaking with a manager or security guard might be too much for her (it would overwhelm my DD) then even pointing out the security and the sensors at the door, the cameras, etc. and discussing all the things at the store that she's probably not aware of.

good luck

[oceanbaby]

FWIW, I shoplifted a few times as a kid. I was a very "good" kid, but I think I was just kind of experimenting with it. My parents would return the stuff if they found it, but they did not make me do it. I think it's because they knew that I knew it was wrong, and that there no need to make me embarass myself. They just told the clerk that I took it by mistake.

I am a very honest person, and would never steal. I never did as an older child or as a teenager either. You know your kids - does it really seem like they don't know right from wrong, or is it more likely that they are just experimenting with life?

I would probably just tell them that they could get into a lot of trouble, and maybe a brief talk about how it affects the store owner.

[Crunchier]

Originally Posted by chfriend

At 6 and 4, I wouldn't call it shoplifting yet....this sounded like it happened on an impulse.

I'd explain that we can't take things without paying for them, discuss strategies for getting the eraser set on the up and up and tell them if I hadn't seen it we'd be open to being in pretty big trouble.

And I'd ask them to stay closer to me in the stores.

This is exactly what I would do. I think they are too young for grounding. I think a good long talk about the rules and why we have them is in order.

I'd also be concerned that hte older child was using the younger to do her bidding. If Ben were to use Jeff that way, I'd have a talk with him, privately, about respecting and protecting his little brother.

[attachedmamaof3]

IMO, this is something kids often "experiment" with and is totally normal at that age.

I would simply say "We have to pay for things we want from a store. Would YOU like to pay for this when we get up to the register?" (My kids like to pay for stuff and look all grown up.) Other than that, I'd ignore it. They're too little and I'd be hesitant about making it into a guilt/shame/bad/wrong thing, 'cause it's really not about that. It's about paying for things that aren't ours/respecting others' property. That's the lesson you want them to learn.

[ejbamommy]

thank you! these have all been great ideas!
I also didn't think about the concern of Emily using Jace to do it for her. now that i think about it i'e noticed that happening in other situations as well. might be time for her and I to go on a walk and talk.
thanks everyone!

[Roar]

I'd tread cautiously about involving the store. You may find they say things far more scary than you'd like your kids to hear.

This isn't unusual behavior. I'd treat the first time as an informational problem. I'd talk about the feelings of wanting something you don't have and ways to cope with them. And, I'd give information about how it is stealing and how that can be punished. I wouldn't hit them too hard with it though because I'm sure they didn't really understand the implications of their actions.

[mamaduck]

I think a family talk is probably the only action warrented. You intercepted, rightly, and protected them from making a wrong choice. A serious conversation now, about WHY we don't take things that aren't ours, is probably all that is warrented. Now if this becomes a pattern, then I would handle it differently. But they really just need to be told whats what, at this point.

[mamazee]

Yeah, 6 and 4 are too young to completely internalize the whole economic system at work with customers/stores. They want it, they know you won't get it, so they try to figure out a way to get it without you.

I'd help them understand how stores work and how the store is effected when people take things without paying. Just talking about it might help. We give our daughter a small allowance so she is able to buy stuff, or she can save up for things, but she really seems to understand, finally after a few months of the allowance thing, that she actually has to have money to get something.

[Isaac'sMa]

When I was four I remember taking a little toy from a store in my fist. At the time I knew (sort of) that it was wrong, but not really and when my mom and I got to the car and she realized what had happened, she marched me back into the store. I had to give it back and apologize. Boy, was I embarassed. My mom explained why it was wrong etc. but in the end I turned out okay, I think.

I think I would have a family talk about why their behavior was wrong. If it happens again and you catch them in the act I would take them to the store manager and make them explain what they did and then apologize.

I'd bet your four y.o. kinda knew it was wrong, but maybe not. I'd think that the seven y.o. had/has a little better idea about why it's wrong and that's probably why she was trying to get her brother to take the eraser set. A one-size-fits-all approach might not fit here since the intellectual/emotional maturity is pretty different bet. 4 and 7 yrs. old.

Have you considered an allowance where your dd gets to do household chores to earn a dollar or two spending money every week? Maybe she tried to takr the eraser b/c she thought you wouldn't buy it for her even if she asked?