UCing? On the fence? Come and talk to me...

[flapjack]

OK, it seems that a lot of people are mentioning that they're either planning a UC, have already UCed or are sitting on the fence. I don't know. I really don't know. Money (using a m/w, not using a m/w) is not an issue for us and I'm booked for care with my local community midwives. They're the equivalent of your CNMs over there. I just keep secondguessing myself. Partly because Skye's birth was so fast- from the last stall, it was literally 3 contractions until she was out- and partly just because the whole UK midwifery system is bugging me, I keep thinking about UC.

BUT
Isaac was a military presentation (two shoulders coming through the pelvis at once) and I had a borderline haemorrhage afterwards. No transfer or transfusion needed, but I felt it.
Skye was born with a nuchal hand, and again, I needed help to get her out. I was also in a bloody silly position to give birth in- flat on my back on the bed- because I didn't believe this was actually labour. I ended up with PTSD because my head and body were so disjointed that day, it was so stressful.
Because of the way our lives are- we have carers in several times a day to help my FIL, and district nurses twice weekly- we're talking about a deliberate "whoops, that was fast" here. UP isn't an option, and getting birth certificates and stuff will be much easier if we remain in the system. And yes, we do need birth certificates, this new baby is worth an additional 1500 GBP in terms of tax credits and family allowance and stuff.

Thoughts?

[Jezzy]

I am with you. My first born was really hard. It took forceps to get him out. Maybe it was just the doc, I don't know. Although it went fast. (2 hours) It was hard.

My 2nd was a walk in the park and with a little help with a mw I pretty much did everything alone. It was a beautiful experience.

If I only knew what this one was going to be like...... I talked to my mw about it. She always wanted a homebirth but her dh was against it. So she delivered in the hospital and went right home. Her dh felt better that way.

I have a question about hb und uc. What happens if you tear? I tore a little with dd. Dh I had a double episiotomy. Ouch, I still feel the scars from that! After almost 15 years! The dr cut me up both sides to the bone..... He said that he needed to get ds out NOW!

[OldFashionedGirl]

I'm definately on the fence about HB/UC. Well, to put it more accurately, I'm not really, but there's no way I convince my fiance of it. I DID convince him that it would be best to labor at home for as long as possible, so I'm hoping for a "Whoops, dear! I didn't realize it was coming that fast!" and that after that goes well (well, hopefully) that next time, convincing him of HB/UC won't be so hard.

[LoveChild421]

I'm with you Helen! I did have some complications during ds's birth (his story is in my siggie) that having a midwife around really helped with. Dr.s and midwives have assured me I won't have those same complications this time (cervical scar tissue). So I just pray for a quicky, straightforward UC. I know dp and I can handle things like cord around the neck, but the hospital is only 10 minutes away max so I'm not too worried.

I am having care with CNMs at the local hospital. I feel better having a monitored pregnancy (although I decline many tests such as AFP, Gest. Diabetes, only have one ultrasound to check for severe abnormalities, etc) just to assure me that everything is normal. I feel better going into a UC knowing thinks seem 100% fine with both of us. I do plan on this being an "oops the baby came to fast" situation when I call and tell the midwives to cancel my appts.

This journey towards UC has been presenting me with profound questions that I have to really search my soul to answer. Do I believe that my body is strong and able to birth my child without medical assistance? Do I believe nature is superior to technology as far as birth is concerned (in general)? Do I accept responsibility for myself and my baby or do I want to pass it off to Drs and the hospital? Am I scared or am I fearless? Will I freak out during the birth because no one is there to help me or will I know that I can do this?

In my situation, a homebirth midwife is not an option. We don't have $2,500 and won't any time soon. I don't have a car that is reliable enough to make the 2 hour drive to my midwife's house every month, then later every 2 weeks, then every week. For me its either UC or hospital with a CNM. At this point I feel confident with my UC plans, knowing I can just go to the hospital if I feel anything is amiss.

[LoveChild421]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

I have a question about hb und uc. What happens if you tear? I tore a little with dd. Dh I had a double episiotomy. Ouch, I still feel the scars from that! After almost 15 years! The dr cut me up both sides to the bone..... He said that he needed to get ds out NOW!

I'm so sorry he did that to you.

I didn't tear and wasn't cut with ds so I didn't even think about what to do about tearing. I suppose that if I tore bad enough to need stitches (more than just a superficial skin tear) I would probably go to the hospital. The only problem is I wonder what they would think about a woman coming in after just giving birth asking to be sown up but not wanting to be admitted and not wanting her baby to be admitted?

I really think that the great thing about UC/HB is that no one is directing your pushing so you just go with your urges and women who push spontaneously/undirected often feel that they need to stop pushing and allow the skin to stretch. Then they just do little pushes/grunts to slowly work the baby out. Its amazing how different things are when you are just allowed to listen to your body and not some Dr. or nurse.

[applecore]

Here's how I see it: UCing is a great birth option if you REALLY trust the birth process and are able to tune in to your intuition. If you're the type of person who is always worried about possible negative outcomes, or second guesses a lot, then it might not be for you. I think much of the time the problems that occur in a hospital setting are happening because there is an expectation that they will. If you don't subscribe to the idea that energy plays a big part in the way things unfold, then I'm sure this sounds like a bunch of hooey. But for example, there are two hospitals in my town. One is known for excellent neo-natal intensive care, and women who go there end up with WAY more of the problems that they treat. And it has little to do with them going there for a perceived problem before the birth.

Are there choices as to the midwives you can use? There's such a difference with each one. The midwife I apprentice with is going to be at my birth, but I imagine it will pretty much be a UC. She's kinda coming just for fun, and to give my dh peace of mind. Maybe you could talk to other women and find out how the midwives in your area treat birth. Or ask them if they'd be comfortable staying in another room unless you asked for them. I know some midwives are happy to do that. I'm not trying to talk you out of a UC if you really want one- it just sounded like you had some reservations, and I do think that matters. Good luck with the process of deciding!

[Jezzy]

LoveChild421Would you share how you got the cervical scar tissue?? I am a little worried about that..... I had *cone* done years ago because I was bleeding all the time. Contact bleeding ect,

[applecore]

Oh, I also wanted to respond to the question about tearing. Usually any tears that we see at homebirths need nothing to heal perfectly. They're usually really tiny, or just abrasions. We just tell women to avoid stairs, and keep their legs together for a few days. If you wanted to use something to hold the tear together, you can use a piece of seaweed soaked in water. When it dries it's supposed to hold together well, although I've never seen anyone try it personally. The midwife I used for my second birth used some superglue on my tear (from a nuchal arm- elbow caused a tear), which can work, but I hated it. I would just do nothing if I tore again.

[nolonger]

I tore with Phoenix and it healed fine on it's own, even though I was not able to follow my midwife's advice to stay in bed and kep my legs crosed because was stupid enough to take her (midwife assisted homebirth, but this was 1988) to a hospital to get "checked out" and ran into problems that meant a lot of stress, fear, and many hours out in the cold waiting for public transportation and stabnding up in crowded buses.

I have superglue for tears this time around, and also comfrey to make into a strong infusion for my peri botle to help with healing. I don't expect to need them, since I didn't tear with either of my surviving children, but it makes me feel a bit "safer" and "more responsible" to have an overstocked "emergency kit" since I may well be doing a completely solo UC.

I don't have a dh, but I do have an ex who has somewhat brainwashed my ds. ds was making threats about calling an ambulance or CPS if I UC'ed when we talked about it during TTC, so I think I can relate a bit to the unsupportive partner fears, although sons are easier to deal with than partners. My daughter's boyfriend also lives with us and is pretty clueless. dd's bf knows and ds doesn't, although I can easily turn my half-truths into truths by just saying that the "unlicensed midwife who is very twitchy about extranneous people at the birth and doesn't want a lot of gossip about accepting older women as clients" is actually myself or my daughter.

Both boys will be out of my house during the birth, and I focus more on my own discomfort at having male energy around, probably nudity, and worrying about their discomfort at seeing pain and bodily fluids than I do about my fears that they will act inappropriately and sabotogue my UC.I intend to tell them that it's time for them to go get situated in the motel because it's almost time for me to call the midwife. This approach, or some adaptation of it, may or may not work with your dh.

A supportive partner, however, could easily learn how to give you the same help the midwives did with the dificult presentations and could make sure you took shepherd's purse or cayenne to halt the hemmorhage. I feel much more relaxed knowing that I have a dd on call or in the other room in case I need her.

The birth certificate shouldn't be a problem, but I would suggest posting on the UC board here or on Laura Shanley's site to find out the info, since it varies greatly by location.

This is my first UC, and as you know I am very excited about it and tend to forget that you have not been planning one all along so I want to be supportive and yet also be careful to let you make your own decision about what is right for you.

I can so see you doing this, though; from what I know of you, you have just the right head space for a UC to be a truly beautiful and empowering experience if this is the route you choose to go.

It's a very personal decision and, in my case, quite a journey to work through my fears and know that UP/UC is right for me. I'm still working through feelings about birthing solo vs demanding that my dd be there to hold my hand and pat me on the head because I DESERVE it if I want it, lol.

[Gunter]

well, dh and i are open to the idea of UC. one reason that we started thinking about it seriously is b/c we are sort of nomadic right now. we've been living in bali, indo for two months while i volunteer at a birth center. i have great pre-natal care here but would not give birth at a birth center. i had a fabulous homebirth and will plan to have another fab HB. just not sure who will attend me in that fab HB.

if we make it back to our town and our house, i will probably labor in the hot tub outside with the temp turned down lower. i want my best friend there (nurse at a birth center, doula and in frontier's mw program) and another friend who was at e's birth (she's a massage therapist and helped me through labor with her rubbing hands and prayers). i would like to have the same mw come that caught e and i think she would be as hands off as we wanted. otherwise, i am doing birth work internationally, so maybe i will have a mw or nurse co-worker attend. i have concerns about tearing, again and PPH. Otherwise, no worries. Lots of trust.

since talking about it a lot, dh is reading "heart and hands". we'll keep that as our plan until we need to change it. i ask the baby where it would like to be born and wait, trusting that i can know it's desire.

[AlpineMama]

Ooh, me, count me in for "on the fence." I'm rushing now but I'll be back to post a bit more later....

[Marlet]

flapjack you can always pm me to bounce ideas off of! DD1 was a failed UC (partial UP) and DD2 was an entire UP and UC waterbirth. DH was on the fence all the way until she was born!

[APMomOfKimmyN-Maya]

I am for sure having a UC unless my intuition tells me at the time that I need medical care. I will not go to a hospital for any other reason. I can't stand all of their "routine" procedures and I also can't stand being looked at like a fool when I don't go along with each and every one of them so those are really my main reasons for UCing. I want my baby to be born in her home and I want my children to be there. At the hospitals in my area (Bay Area, CA. ) they are strict about not wanting siblings in the labor room and that just isn't ok with me.

I can't really give you advice on your situation, the best thing I can come up with is trust your gut feelings!

[ScarletBegonias]

i am having a uc, BUT i have hooked up with a not-practicing-at-the-moment hb cnm, who will be available for the birth (strange presentations etc) and pp (tears etc) IF i need/want her.

that said, i tore up and down with dd (hb with cnm) and needed about 1/2 dozen stitches. there's a long story behind that so i'm sure i won't tear this time, given the circumstances.

but tearing ironically is my #1 fear and reason for wanting a mw available to call if i do need stitches.

as a side note: i've been having a weird feeling this babe will be born frank breech . i have no fears about uc'ing a breech baby though.

[flapjack]

Applecore, the only way I'm guaranteed to meet my midwife in advance is if I book an independent m/w= which is £3000 (or $6000 to you.) Not doing that. Aside from my ideological issues with private health care, we don't really have that kind of money. I have a 100% track record of birthing when my named midwife was on shift and available to catch though- it's handy having daytime births- but my new community midwife only started in the community two weeks ago and I haven't had an antenatal yet. She could be great, she might not be, but if she isn't then I have the right to ask for a replacement...

Basically, over here we have this thing called the maternity charter. I have an absolute right to be attended by a m/w in labour and to have a baby at home regardless of medical advice, whether there's enough midwives working that night, anything else. I have the right to decline internals, electronic foetal monitoring, any or all diagnostic tests during pregnancy, intervention during the third stage, and pretty much the one thing where the wording is vague is on the issue of whose hands actually receive the baby. The same things apply in hospital, btw, and it is all legally protected. Even with all this, though, it doesn't feel enough any more. Sandra was absolutely fantastic with my last birth, but I still want more privacy than we had. I want to do this one without the feeling of "if only".
Lacey, I'm carrying this really strong sense memory with me of reaching down and inside to touch a baby's head. I can understand the feelings of concern and relief being faced with a breech presentation in labour, because that really rules out all possibility of a holistic birth in this day and age. Once you get to the point of accepting that baby is breech and you trust your body to give birth naturally, then I think UC has GOT to be the safer option.
Gunter I've missed you, mama! I'm pretty sure that this baby is going to find his way into the world safe and sound and in exactly the right way, time and place for him. Or her. Let's not be sexist
OMM- bless, thank you
NOS- birthing without dh isn't an option for me. Our sexuality and our fertility are so closely entwined, I can't imagine birthing our child without him. It's like trying to imagine not breathing, y'know? My FIL is housebound- mostly by choice- so we know he's going to be around on the day of birth. Because of all the comings and goings, though, a planned UC is going to be incredibly stressful- also the big thing that holds me back is worry about what people might think. I know there's a chance that this baby has health problems (eczema, asthma, the full catastrophe) and I don't want anything else down on his medical records that immediately lets people know how truly weird we are

Oh, and to clarify: there are only two circumstances that would get me into hospital. One is birthing between 29 and 35 weeks- the other is the presence of blood. Everything else, I'll take a step at a time.

[BinahYeteirah]

bs"d

I'm planning my second UC for this baby.

It seems to me that the "oops" option will work well for you, especially with your history of short births. You can change your mind at any time. You are planning to continue prenatal care so it won't be a problem for you to call your midwife at any time should you want help, whether before the birth or afterwards.You could even time your call to be before the birth, but late enough that they would get there right after baby is born. That way you could have help in case you have fears about hemmorage or tears.

Also, if it is presented as an "oops" situation, I don't see that you have much to worry about regarding what people will think. It happens all the time, and even if your midwife decides she doesn't really believe you, many hcp chose to go along with these stories. Personally, I would hate to lie about these things, especially to a caregiver with whom I had developed a good relationship. Last time, I needed something from my GP, so I told him about it in a way that let him make his own assumptions without saying anything that was actually false. In a way, I feel this is better for them, too, because they are protected from knowledge that might create liability or reporting responsiblities for them. You can inform your friends and relatives or not as you wish. If you have a private part of the house away from your FIL, it is possible he won't have to know what is happening until it's all over, but that depends how loud you are, etc.

[LoveChild421]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

LoveChild421Would you share how you got the cervical scar tissue?? I am a little worried about that..... I had *cone* done years ago because I was bleeding all the time. Contact bleeding ect,

In my case, I had cryosurgery done on my cervix due to abnormal cells (I went against my intuition, because I was young and thought I had to, I've learned a lot since then). I was told that cryo wouldn't hurt, but honestly it was the most painful thing I've ever been through in my life. I think that the Dr. either did it for too long or somehow botched it. My midwife was very surprised to see that much scar tissue from a cryo. She did say that cone biopsies can cause scar tissue, but don't always. It's really about how your body reacts. I know that my body was severely traumatized on a physical and emotional level from that cryo, so I can see why my body would build up a ton of scar tissue in that area.

You can ask an OB/midwife to check and see if they feel/see scar tissue, they can tell more about it the further along you get, but in my case ds being born broke up all of the scar tissue. If you've had a baby vaginally since you had the cone, you probably don't need to worry about it.

You can read my son's birth story in my siggie if you want to see what a labor with scar tissue is like.