Pumping/Bottlefeeding Question

[Evie]

My 5.5 month old daughter has been in daycare for a little over a month now, and today her classroom teacher told me that she's still fussy after finishing a bottle and asked me to consider increasing the amount she gets at each feeding. (She has been taking 5 oz bottes every three hours or so, so I guess we would up it to 6 oz.)

The thing is, I'm not so certain that she needs more milk. For one thing, she has always been fussy when she finishes a bottle--I think because she comfort-sucks at end of a breastfeeding session, but can't do that with a bottle. Also, my pumping output per session has historically matched what she drinks in one bottlefeeding, and I'm still only pumping 4-5oz per session.

So I guess my questions are as follows:

1) Does anyone else's breastfed baby seem unsatisfied at the end of a bottlefeeding that is unreasonable considering the amount of milk consumed?

2) Is it normal for her to increase her milk intake per feeding at this stage?

3) At what point do solid foods become a meal replacement for breastmilk? I was planning on holding off on the solids until at least 6-7 months, but I might start them as soon as she hits six months if it helps satisfy her hunger. (Only if nutritionally sound, though.)

I'm planning on upping my oatmeal intake and getting some fenugreek supplments in case it is a low supply issue, but I wanted to get your reaction to these other thoughts.

[SwanMom]

My almost 8 month old can easily beat me when it comes to his drinking vs. my pumping. I am producing enough for him to eat directly from the tap on weekends, but I have to pump a ton during the day to keep up with his daycare consumption. This is because the pump isn't as efficient as my baby.

I don't know how much your daughter should drink. Maybe try a little more and see what happens. DS2 has just started daycare and solids in the last month, but he drinks 6 ounces for the first feeding, then 4, then I nurse him during my lunch hour, and then he often drinks 4 more. (total of 14 per day...I'm gone from him for about 8 hours...)

I pump at 7:40, 9:50, nurse him at 12:30, and pump again at 2:50. I get about 3-4 ounces per session, but I assume he drinks more than that at 12:30.

To keep up with him I pump 1-2 times when we are home in the evenings. This results in 14-16 ounces per day.

[CathMac]

Link to "sticky" at the top of this board

Cygnet09,
Have you seen this "sticky" at the top of this board?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=718189

Please see my posts on Supply Tips and Pumping Tips. Some or all of the links are likely to be inactive at this point but try "googling" the article titles or doing a search on a "meta" search engine like dog pile. You may need to dig a little but you should be able to find the article, look for the article's source (usually contained in the title I give it or the inactive address) to match.

Somewhere in there you should also find a link to a Kellymom article on Bottlefeeding the Breastfed baby. The tips in this article are probably more useful for conserving milk with newborns that are guzzling EBM due to "defensive swallowing" but it wouldn't hurt for DCP to try and slow the feedings down (using slow flow nipples and removing the nipple every couple of swallows or so to mimic BF'ing). That is of course assuming they are willing to try. It does take more effort.

The good news is that you are very close to being able to introduce solids, which may take some of the pressure off of pumping.

If you can't find particular links you are interested in please feel free to PM me.

Good luck.
~Cath

[alegna]

Hunger needs to be answered by breastmilk for the whole first year.

-Angela

[CathMac]

Originally Posted by alegna

Hunger needs to be answered by breastmilk for the whole first year.

-Angela

Angela,
I've never heard that before. Can you refer me to your source of information on this?

Assuming this info is correct that doesn't necessarily help the OP --or her DCP for that matter-- figure out whether her DD is in fact hungry. That's why I specifically referred her to the Kellymom article on Bottlefeeding the Breastfed baby, which discusses the importance of feeding a baby until they are sated and not trying to finish the bottle off.

Kellymom article
How to bottle-feed the breastfed baby
...tips for a breastfeeding supportive style of bottle feeding
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/bottle-feeding.html

I highly recommend that anyone interested in the plight of Working & Pumping moms read this article as well as some of the other articles in the BF'ing Challenges sticky I referred the OP to.


Evie,
Familiarizing a DCP with the more liberal storage guidelines for EBM (as opposed to formula) might remove some pressure to "finish the bottle off", since EBM can be left at room temp (72 degrees or under) for up to eight hours. My rule of thumb is that those 8 hours are reduced by whatever length of time the milk was left at room temp after pumping.

Storing the milk in smaller portion sizes might also adjust DCP's perception of how much DD really needs. DCP certainly has the option of giving her more if necessary but it changes the default from "large" to "medium". Of course I'm making some assumptions about how the milk is "packaged" for DCP.

I could go on and on here but I'd only be re-hashing a lot of what is contained in my two posts in the BF'ing Challenges "sticky" I referred you to.

But I will take the opportunity to emphasize something that has been a lifesaver to me as a two time Working & Pumping mom: co-sleeping. If it is consistent with your parenting philosophy and your own sleep needs it is a great way to maximize DD's intake at a time when your Prolactin levels are highest. I know some moms can't do this because they are really light sleepers or their baby is a really restless sleeper.

If it's not consistent with your parenting philosophy I would suggest you weigh that against taking the pressure off of pumping. If you have safety concerns check out the Kellymom article on the family bed.

I actually invested in a custom mattress to fit a "play yard" so I don't have to worry about DD climbing over me and so I can nurse her down and get up without having to move her to a crib (which would likely wake her up).

Good luck and please PM me if you need me to hunt down an inactive link, if you need additional info, or if you just need some moral support.
~Cath

[mariposa78glf]

First off--Congrats on making the decision the be a pumping mama! I pumped for 6 months for my son and I am so happy I made that choice--@ 20 months we still have a great nursing relationship! AJ's need for milk was up and down. At one point, around 6 months he was taking 20-25 oz a day. I also nursed in the morning and a lunch--wow! I would try boosting your supply and sending more milk and see if that helps with the fussiness. If not, your little one may have an allergy to something you are eating. AJ had a dairy and soy allergy until shortly after 1... like your little one, he would be fussy after eating (now I know he had a tummy ache). Once I figured it out, funssiness was not longer an issue.

If your little one still seems hungry after getting a bottle it may be because it didn't fill em up! babies go through crazy (sometimes unpredictable) growth spurts so that may be happening so you will want to increase your supply---pump more @ work, try More Mother's Milk supplement and Mother's Milk tea. Those things helped out a ton for me! There is also a YAHOO group called Pumping Moms--GREAT resource.

[seawind]

Originally Posted by alegna

Hunger needs to be answered by breastmilk for the whole first year.

-Angela

I believe the OP is looking for answers/suggestions to her questions. What you are doing is passing a comment. A vague one at that. As PP has asked, can you back up that comment?

[CathMac]

Originally Posted by mariposa78glf

...There is also a YAHOO group called Pumping Moms--GREAT resource.

mariposa78glf,
Can you clarify the group name? I found several BF support groups, but none with that exact name.
~Cath

[MaryJaneLouise]

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PumpMoms/

It's called PumpMoms

[Rev1053]

Originally Posted by MaryJaneLouise

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PumpMoms/

It's called PumpMoms

Thanks for the info! Looks like a good group.

VERY ACTIVE!

[milkmamma]

I've been pumping and working full time for almost 2 months, my ds is almost 6 months. I have a really great dcp that works with me on everything. I explained to them that ds will seem hungry after a bottle because he is breast fed an has high suck needs. They give him a bottle (4 ounces based off the calculator on www.kellymom.com) if he still seems hungry they give him his nuk but still hold him and rock him. If he still seems unsatisfied then they'll give him another 2 ounces.

Recently we tried some food because he was having 6 or 7 ounces consistently. He really disliked the food so we are just sending in extra milk. He does seem to have settled back down to his old routine so I think he was just having a growth spurt (6 months is the time for one)

Go with your instincts and don't be afraid to say no to the daycare. They most likely are used to formula fed babies so this is new to them.

[MeepyCat]

Hi Evie! I agree that it sounds like your DCP is possibly unused to feeding EBF babies. My (giant, healthy, full-time daycare) 7.5 month old still consumes about as much breastmilk per sitting as always. In our case, that is six ounces, but if he's still acting hungry after he finishes off a bottle, the daycare will warm up the next one and offer it to him.

I'd hesitate to assume that your pumped milk production will necessarily match the baby's demand. The baby is better at getting milk out than the pump, and there's some lag time between change in demand and change in production even when you're directly nursing the baby.

My feeling on breastmilk and storage is that if the milk is kept either warm or cold, it's adequately stored. If it's allowed to just *sit* and reach room temp, it needs to be pitched. So that makes it easier on the daycare (they can keep a bottle in the warmer for whenever it's needed) and for me (I don't have to pump to make up for spoilage).

My DS, like many others, sometimes attempts to use the bottle for comfort the same way he would use my breast, and to fuss when it's removed for that reason. This is a huge issue when he's teething, and I wonder if that's what's going on with your LO. Would it help to send in some teethy things for the DCP to offer after a nursing session, in case what she really wants is to *chew*?

[leila1213]

When my DD started taking 6 oz at a time around 5 months and I couldn't keep up, I followed the kellymom strategies (including the bottlefeeding tips) and switched to a Breastflow Bottle. Since then DD's consumption went down by almost 1/2 per feeding (sometimes she would take an extra feeding of 2-3 oz) but it never went back up, even as she grew bigger.

I also agree with extra night nursing. I think DD was nursing LESS at night BECAUSE she was getting TOO MUCH from the bottle during the day. Then with the new bottle, she went back to nursing more at night and I am very happy with that (it was not a nice feeling to have her prefer the bottle or paci over mommy).

Please read the kellymom site in detail, and if you aren't already using the Breastflow, please look into it (I would stick with the 5 oz bottles ): http://www.amazon.com/First-Years-Br.../dp/B000BK8RHM