Support outside of the "surviving abuse" forum - Page 4

[Mama_2_Boy]

Great post Angel. I know what you mean about the meditation. There are moments throughout some days that I take for reflection and to try and ground myself. I thinks it great way to lift ourselves.

I just about had another bad episode last night when trying to get DS down for bed. If he is overtired, it's almost impossible to get him to lay still. He hops all over the bed laughing hysterically and refuses to settle down. When I am very tired and just ready to have a nervous break down, this is when my triggers happen. He started flailing his arms around and smaked me on the head. Then he was trying to grab onto my ear (something he does for comfort when trying to fall asleep) and he grabbed real hard and then yanked away pulling most of my hair out of my head with him. I yelled...OUCH!....he immediatly stopped moving and said "mama ? " as if to say "what's going on?" he settled down after that and I also realized that the frustration and anger that was welling up inside of my was immediatly released with that yell. I dont' know if this is a good idea though. I dont' know if he takes the yelling directed at him or not. He didn't appear to be upset by it, just mainly a little shocked by the volumn I think. He knows what ouch means though because he uses this word as well.

[transformed]

I was abused, as was my dh. It was the kind of abuse that some call "normal parenting" though. I am not sure that CPS would have been in either of our situations. But to me, that doesn't make it any less "abuse."

I knew it growing up, I would often threaten to call protective services on my mom. In fact, I think I even did call an abuse hotline one time and they laughed at me. I was very trapped. Most of my abuse was mental but my mom was a violent yeller and also did alot of uncontrolled spanking.

My dh was hit with a belt over and over and over. His parents were very mentally abusive as well. He does not see it as abuse, he sees it as "He was a bad kid and his parents did what they had to do."

Unfortunatly, we are at risk of repeating the pattern and I am commited to not doing that. I never had time to heal though, I had my ds at 21.

Captin Crunchy, I dont know how you had the courage to sit with your mom like that.

I have NO love for my parents in my heart and I have no desire to talk with them about it. Mostly because they do not see it as abuse. They think they were/are good parents.

Are there other ways to handle it?

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by transformed

I have NO love for my parents in my heart and I have no desire to talk with them about it. Mostly because they do not see it as abuse. They think they were/are good parents.

Ditto, ditto, and ditto. My mom is a "tough-love" teacher and always maintains that everyone loves and respects her because she acts that way. :

I'll be interested to see how to handle it too. I have to at some point tell my parents we're expecting, and I know that's when the sh1+ will hit the fan.

[transformed]

I still have a daily relationship with my mom. I have been avoiding their house for about a month because they got a new puppy and its totally annoying. Since then, I have been feeling better. I wonder if I need to not have very much contact with her? (But its hard because we are getting ready to have a baby and they are kind of free childcare)

I thought about writing her a letter that I do not plan on giving to her. Just a "get it all out" thing

I feel like I am "getting it all out" all the time when I loose my temper all the time. Thats no good.

[CherryBomb]

Thanks for starting this thread.

I grew up being mentally, physcially, and sexually abused. I have a very hard time parenting my children. I have spanked before (and always regretted it immediately) but I haven't in a long time. But it's taken A LOT of willpower on my part. I still yell and get frustrated easily and that bothers me. I am going to see about getting back in with my therapist soon and see if that helps.

[Diane B]

Originally Posted by WuWei

He has a new book called "ANGER". I only just started it. And it too is powerful and comforting to increasing my awareness, understanding and caretaking (compassion toward mySelf) of my emotional angst at myself for not being as calm (internally) as I wish I were and strive to be. http://www.amazon.com/Anger-Thich-Nh...336562-8587237 He talks about embracing your anger as messages about your values and priorities, and "taking care of your needs like a crying baby". That anger is a message of unmet needs. And recognizing and honoring those values as important in my life. Taking care of those needs, like we care for the needs of the young, is important. I highly recommend both.
Pat

I also cannot recommend this book enough. I re-read it recently when I felt my anger was increasing again. My years of mindfulness practice have really helped me with these struggles, although I still fall down from time to time with my daughter. One thing that TNH talks about a lot as well is the process of reconciling with the presence of your parents in yourself, and coming to a place of forgiveness and acceptance, rather than hatred towards them. They are a part of us.

I shudder to think at the parent I might have been without a lot of therapy, and these wise and helpful teachings. Even now, I have absolutely no internal model for how to be a peaceful, patient, connected mom. I'm making it up every day! I would really encourage all of us who had difficult childhoods, for the sake of our precious children, to devote ourselves to healing the pain in ourselves so that we don't pass it on to our kids. Whatever this looks like for you - counseling, body work, journaling, support groups, spiritual practice - take the leap and get some help.

By the way, to the OP: I think this is a great thread, and the perfect forum. I found that the other forum you mentioned didn't actually focus much on how previous abuse affects present-day parenting challenges.

[transformed]

Bedtime Battle

Our Bedtime battles came to a head last night and last night turned out really really ugly.
My ds didnt have a nap yesterday due to preK and basically, I cant get him a nap anymore at all because of this preK schedule. (He is starting to get comfortable with the kids in his class and I am conflicted about moving him to another center, plus this one is so close we can walk together and we ALL need excercise really bad.)

So I put him to bed before Daddy got home at around 7:30, because bedtime is sooooo much easier with only one parent. The kids tend to listen alot better and dont get out of bed so much.

I think he slept for a few and then woke up at 9 and started playing his usual bedtime game. "I WONT GO TO BED WITHOUT ________________." (food, drink, you, glow stick, you name it...) This is his statment EVERY NIGHT for the last MONTH.

It makes my blood boil when he talks too me like that but I try to be patient. I ushered him back into his room and explained that he needed to stay on his bed. He could choose not to sleep, or to sleep, or to read or play quietly. This is not working latley. I am not going to lay down with him because I only have like an hour to spend with dh and thats where my priority is. (My ds just talks to me and doesnt stop)

We tried placing him in our bed, and telling him we would be in in a few minutes....kept getting up.

Anyways, eventually after 50 billion times of gently taking him back to bed, I ended up threatening him with a spanking. (I do this all the time, hoping he wont get out of bed, but then when he does, I feellike i have to be accountable to what I said I would do_ so I spanked him lightly on the butt and told him to stay in bed.

Then he started throwing a fit when I would take him back into bed and was hysterical and he woke up his little sister.

My dh ended up spanking him like 6 times (each time for a seperate time of him getting out of bed) before I said "Its not working, he's not going to stop.)

So both the 22 month old and the 4 year old are throwing fits and my head is just spinning. Why doesnt GD work for me? Why dont they just go to bed? They are sooooo tired, neither of them really napped, why dont they just SLEEP?

It was the worst night ever. And alot of it was my fault because I could not keep my cool.

I hate bedtime. I cannot find a way to make it runsmoothly. We have a routine that has been in effect for years and it doesnt work!!!!!

I just dont want to be a mom after 9:00 PM and thats not a good attitude to have. But I dont get any other breaks than that so I allow myself to be a *little* selfish, I should be allowed to have some me time, right? (Obviously, not at the expense of the kids like that though) I guess I am not going to be able to do the self care I so desperatly need because I have to lie down with my kids at night and that makes me mad. I do not want to. It makes me feel resentful.

I feel so bad about these feelings. Like I shouldnt be having them.

Thanks for letting me vent.

PS-The more ashamed I feel about events that unfold unpleasently, the more they happen! How to break that cycle?!?!?! Its like a merry-go-round!

[todavia]

wecome to all the new people...

Originally Posted by Momma_Camille

My DD is only almost 23 months but I always apologize if I yell & it upsets her. I have to use simpler terms than you do but I think it would have made an enormous difference in my childhood if my mother had ever come to me & said "I'm sorry I lost my cool with you. I shouldn't act like that." Because really she just always acted like I deserved it no matter what the "provocation" was. And my dad always acted like the most important part of my life was protecting my mother from all harm. : Not a child's job!

i think you're right and i'm gonna have to find a way to come to terms with saying "i'm sorry". that's a tough one for me...

what you said about your dad also really hits home for me because a few years ago my dad actually told me "when your mom and i split up, i knew i should have tried for full custody because she was not capable of being a good mom but i felt so guilty about leaving and i worried that if i took you away too that she might kill herself": thanks, dad.

Originally Posted by mamabear&babybear

J likes to hear the rundown of what happened when we argue also. I think it really helps them process the whole thing. What I struggle with is that she likes to hear it over and over again. I struggle so much with this because it makes me feel like she is blaming/shaming me like my parents used to. It's sounds so ridiculous, and I didn't even realize that I feel that way until just now. Wow!!

Hmmm, is there a point at which I should ask her to stop rehashing it or do you all think it is important to discuss it as much as she wants or maybe needs to? I'm at a loss now.

i can totally relate to what you're saying here. "oh you want me to tell you AGAIN about how much of a b*%ch i was this morning? okay honey". i would probably draw the line after 3 times and then try to move on to something else. kids are all about repitition though so maybe it's just like anything else and they need to hear the same thing 50,000 times before it sinks in.

Originally Posted by natensarah

Violetisadora, I always recap things with my two year old. He wants to hear the story of conflicts over and over, I think it helps him process it. Actually, I do this even more consciously since reading "Parenting From the Inside Out" because the author talks a lot about how hearing stories activates both sides of the brain and helps develop mindfulness. So I think it sounds like a great idea for you to rehash things! Maybe since your son is older, you could even draw cartoons or write stories together of what happened.

thanks for the suggestion! i'l have to try to look for that book as well.

Originally Posted by Devaskyla

I'm trying to be more sympathetic when he gets upset, even though what he's getting upset about generally seems completely trivial and he usually has multiple things every day. My biggest triggers are when I'm tired and when I'm angry about other things going on.

me too. also trying to get out of the house is always a tough one...

Originally Posted by swampangel

I was going to chime in today and share that I had a pretty good one. I've been really struggling with old stuff since my oldest started school this year. It brought up so many memories for me in such a visceral way. Essentially, I've been having flashbacks which I've never had before...well, at least I didn't realize it before if I did have them. Thank god for therapy to help me work all of this out! (It's amazing...I've been in and out of therapy for about 18 years and I'm getting so much out of it at this point in my life! It's been great throughout the years, but this has been the time in my life of huge healing and growth...amazing what kids can do! )

Anyway, I went to therapy today and it was so healing. Lots of tears and really sitting in the old, nasty feelings with no defenses in between me and the trauma. Really raw stuff...it's so hard to be there, but when I got home I felt so relieved and like a burden was lifted. I know it isn't the end...the journey continues and the trauma will resurface, but it helps to know that with each encounter with the pain, the pain does lessen. I learn new ways to cope and take care of myself and I process the pain further.

A lot of my recent stuff was triggered when my mom went off of her meds for the millionth time. This is nothing new, but the way I am responding is different each time as I do more work on healing. (btw, I'm essentially my mother's guardian now so this is stuff that I deal with closely and it gets very tricky). Anyway, I was able to actually call her tonight after not speaking to her since she went off the meds. I shared with her that when she goes off of them, I have to stay away because of her psychosis and I just can't be there for her when she's that unhealthy. It felt really liberating to just tell her how I felt but not expecting any change from her. She actually took it well...by that I mean she didn't freak out, she listened but I'm sure it won't change anything. But it was a big step to just honestly tell her why I've been out of touch for the last couple of weeks.

Anyway, sorry to ramble about it. It was a big day of healing and for that I am so grateful. I'm hoping to be more present with my boys...that's always my goal. And less reactive and more clear about what's really going on with me. I loved one of the pp's suggestions about imaging the worst that can possibly happen. I did that today and I think it helped.

thank you for sharing this. it is amazing how having kids can really bring up so many unresolved childhood stuff of our own. that's great that you were able to express your feelings to your mother. my therapist said an interesting thing about my anger towards my mother and my extreme impatience and frustration in dealing with her. she said "in an unpleasant or unhealthy situation/relationship there are 4 things you can do - 1)leave it 2) try to change it/the other person 3) try to change the way you experience/percieve it or 4)do nothing". of course, #3 is the only one that actually has the potential to heal the situation and i try to keep this in mind when dealing with both my mom and my son. i can't change them or what they're doing that's driving me crazy. i can only control my reactions/responses to their behavior. : whether or not i can remember these things in the heat of the moment is another story...

Originally Posted by Mama_2_Boy

I just about had another bad episode last night when trying to get DS down for bed. If he is overtired, it's almost impossible to get him to lay still. He hops all over the bed laughing hysterically and refuses to settle down. When I am very tired and just ready to have a nervous break down, this is when my triggers happen. He started flailing his arms around and smaked me on the head. Then he was trying to grab onto my ear (something he does for comfort when trying to fall asleep) and he grabbed real hard and then yanked away pulling most of my hair out of my head with him. I yelled...OUCH!....he immediatly stopped moving and said "mama ? " as if to say "what's going on?" he settled down after that and I also realized that the frustration and anger that was welling up inside of my was immediatly released with that yell. I dont' know if this is a good idea though. I dont' know if he takes the yelling directed at him or not. He didn't appear to be upset by it, just mainly a little shocked by the volumn I think. He knows what ouch means though because he uses this word as well.

i think saying OUCH! in response to having your hair ripped out is totally understandable. being tired always makes things more diffuclt for me as well.

transformed - that sounds like a really difficult situation. i would be at the end of my rope too. i feel horrible saying this but there are plenty of days when i'm watching the clock, desperately waiting for DS' bedtime. those child-free nighttime hours are precious and very necessary for me to relax and recharge for the next day. luckily, ds is very easy to put to sleep - 2 stories on the couch and and a kiss and a hug and that's it - but if he struggled and resisted i don't know what i would do.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by swampangel

A lot of my recent stuff was triggered when my mom went off of her meds for the millionth time. This is nothing new, but the way I am responding is different each time as I do more work on healing. (btw, I'm essentially my mother's guardian now so this is stuff that I deal with closely and it gets very tricky). Anyway, I was able to actually call her tonight after not speaking to her since she went off the meds. I shared with her that when she goes off of them, I have to stay away because of her psychosis and I just can't be there for her when she's that unhealthy. It felt really liberating to just tell her how I felt but not expecting any change from her. She actually took it well...by that I mean she didn't freak out, she listened but I'm sure it won't change anything. But it was a big step to just honestly tell her why I've been out of touch for the last couple of weeks.

This is awesome. I recently read "The Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner (great read, BTW), and have been working towards exchanges like you had with your mom. So kudos to you, I'm in awe that you were able to tell her how you felt, stay calm and inoffensive, and genuinely do it without an ulterior motive. Yay!

Originally Posted by transformed

Unfortunatly, we are at risk of repeating the pattern and I am commited to not doing that. I never had time to heal though, I had my ds at 21.

Captin Crunchy, I dont know how you had the courage to sit with your mom like that.

I have NO love for my parents in my heart and I have no desire to talk with them about it. Mostly because they do not see it as abuse. They think they were/are good parents.

Are there other ways to handle it?

I think it is SO important to come to terms with what went on in your family of origin. I can totally see what you mean about it still being raw and not having had time to deal with those issues, but one thing about having kids is that it gives you a new perspective on your parents' lives. It's much easier to relate to the stress that they went through when you're going through it yourself, KWIM? Maybe you could just start there, by thinking about your mom as a young mother?

Originally Posted by transformed

Our Bedtime battles came to a head last night and last night turned out really really ugly.
My ds didnt have a nap yesterday due to preK and basically, I cant get him a nap anymore at all because of this preK schedule. (He is starting to get comfortable with the kids in his class and I am conflicted about moving him to another center, plus this one is so close we can walk together and we ALL need excercise really bad.)

So I put him to bed before Daddy got home at around 7:30, because bedtime is sooooo much easier with only one parent. The kids tend to listen alot better and dont get out of bed so much.

I think he slept for a few and then woke up at 9 and started playing his usual bedtime game. "I WONT GO TO BED WITHOUT ________________." (food, drink, you, glow stick, you name it...) This is his statment EVERY NIGHT for the last MONTH.

It makes my blood boil when he talks too me like that but I try to be patient. I ushered him back into his room and explained that he needed to stay on his bed. He could choose not to sleep, or to sleep, or to read or play quietly. This is not working latley. I am not going to lay down with him because I only have like an hour to spend with dh and thats where my priority is. (My ds just talks to me and doesnt stop)

We tried placing him in our bed, and telling him we would be in in a few minutes....kept getting up.

Anyways, eventually after 50 billion times of gently taking him back to bed, I ended up threatening him with a spanking. (I do this all the time, hoping he wont get out of bed, but then when he does, I feellike i have to be accountable to what I said I would do_ so I spanked him lightly on the butt and told him to stay in bed.

Then he started throwing a fit when I would take him back into bed and was hysterical and he woke up his little sister.

My dh ended up spanking him like 6 times (each time for a seperate time of him getting out of bed) before I said "Its not working, he's not going to stop.)

So both the 22 month old and the 4 year old are throwing fits and my head is just spinning. Why doesnt GD work for me? Why dont they just go to bed? They are sooooo tired, neither of them really napped, why dont they just SLEEP?

It was the worst night ever. And alot of it was my fault because I could not keep my cool.

I hate bedtime. I cannot find a way to make it runsmoothly. We have a routine that has been in effect for years and it doesnt work!!!!!

I just dont want to be a mom after 9:00 PM and thats not a good attitude to have. But I dont get any other breaks than that so I allow myself to be a *little* selfish, I should be allowed to have some me time, right? (Obviously, not at the expense of the kids like that though) I guess I am not going to be able to do the self care I so desperatly need because I have to lie down with my kids at night and that makes me mad. I do not want to. It makes me feel resentful.

I feel so bad about these feelings. Like I shouldnt be having them.

Thanks for letting me vent.

PS-The more ashamed I feel about events that unfold unpleasently, the more they happen! How to break that cycle?!?!?! Its like a merry-go-round!

Have you read "Sleepless in America"? There are some really great ideas in there about bedtime battles, and how to avoid them.

Also, I've found that when I feel bad about having feelings, that's the surest way to continue having them! Isn't that ridiculous? I think my subconscious just won't let it go, it's like the little devil on my shoulder saying indignantly, "You deserve to be resentful! Your kids have been at you all day! When's your break, huh? When do YOU get a rest? Those little brats don't appreciate you at all!"

Anyway, when I can just take a deep breath and think, "I feel so frustrated and resentful of my children right now, and that's totally normal. It's not their fault. This is just one night of their entire lives, it's not the end of the world," I feel like I can move on more gracefully.

[transformed]

A question:

How do I talk to ds about what happened? I feel like when I try to talk to him about negative interactions, he isnt really interested in a "heart to heart" (I think he is too young!)

Earlier today I aplogized to him and tried to talk to him about it and he was just like "Mom, look at this lunchbox." (Totally not listening. )

???

[mamabear&babybear]

Welcome to the new folks!

Sounds like a tough night last night, Jenny. I totally understand not wanting to lay down. I used to resent having to do it. I'll tell you what we do and maybe it will spark a few ideas that might work for you. We start our routine so that both girls are in bed by 8 (we cosleep but I still think there might be some things that might work for you). I nurse K down and then snuggle with J. In the book Easy to Love, Difficult to discpline it talks about a bed time routine where you say goodnight to your child one body part at a time while lightly touching them. "Goodnight hair, goodnight eyes, .... goodnight feet, goodnight toes, goodnight J". She absolutely loves this part. Then I lay with her for however long I have the patience for and then I let her know I will be getting up to have some quiet time just for me. I get up but "check" on her every 5-10 minutes. When I first started doing this she had no idea what "checking on her" meant, so I told her I would be back in 5-10 minutes to hug and kiss her. After awhile she started falling asleep before I was ready to get up most of the time.

As for your question about how to talk about arguments, I usually start with a statement like "You had a hard time going to sleep last night". Then if she doesn't respond I'll keep going, "I was frustrated because I needed some time to relax". Eventually J starts talking about it , too. If not I suppose I would just keep going, because it makes me feel better to say it out loud.

Originally Posted by violetisadora

"oh you want me to tell you AGAIN about how much of a b*%ch i was this morning? okay honey"

Exactly!!

[transformed]

Originally Posted by mamabear&babybear

Welcome to the new folks!

Sounds like a tough night last night, Jenny. I totally understand not wanting to lay down. I used to resent having to do it. I'll tell you what we do and maybe it will spark a few ideas that might work for you. We start our routine so that both girls are in bed by 8 (we cosleep but I still think there might be some things that might work for you). I nurse K down and then snuggle with J. In the book Easy to Love, Difficult to discpline it talks about a bed time routine where you say goodnight to your child one body part at a time while lightly touching them. "Goodnight hair, goodnight eyes, .... goodnight feet, goodnight toes, goodnight J". She absolutely loves this part. Then I lay with her for however long I have the patience for and then I let her know I will be getting up to have some quiet time just for me. I get up but "check" on her every 5-10 minutes. When I first started doing this she had no idea what "checking on her" meant, so I told her I would be back in 5-10 minutes to hug and kiss her. After awhile she started falling asleep before I was ready to get up most of the time.

As for your question about how to talk about arguments, I usually start with a statement like "You had a hard time going to sleep last night". Then if she doesn't respond I'll keep going, "I was frustrated because I needed some time to relax". Eventually J starts talking about it , too. If not I suppose I would just keep going, because it makes me feel better to say it out loud.

Exactly!!

Thank you so much for the suggestions!!! I am going to try tonight!

I am afraid if I dont talk to him, he will think its his fault he got spanked and I want him to know that its not his fault.

The other day he hit me and I said "I understand you are mad but its not ok to hit me." and he said "Thats not what you taught me mommy!"

I know he was right. I told him he was right!



Thats a nice slap in the face, eih? Of course I dont know how to get him not to hit if I am doing it myself. ugh.

[swampangel]

Originally Posted by transformed

Thank you so much for the suggestions!!! I am going to try tonight!

I am afraid if I dont talk to him, he will think its his fault he got spanked and I want him to know that its not his fault.

The other day he hit me and I said "I understand you are mad but its not ok to hit me." and he said "Thats not what you taught me mommy!"

I know he was right. I told him he was right!



Thats a nice slap in the face, eih? Of course I dont know how to get him not to hit if I am doing it myself. ugh.

I think you're doing incredibly well with such a difficult nighttime routine right now. As far as the hitting, I would just be accountable to him very directly - I spanked you last night and I was wrong. I am going to work very hard not to do that anymore. Hitting is wrong. - That way, you take the ownership of having made a mistake and it's really clear ot him.

As far as talking with him, ITA with the pp about making statements about it. A lot of kids won't get into a discussion about feelings in a direct way. Saying "bedtime was really hard last night! Let's work together to make our bedtime routine run more smoothly" might enlist his perspective on it. Maybe not, tho. Kids are so in the present.

One thing we did with ds when he was younger (2 or 3) was ask him what was next in the routine as we went..we would sort of play dumb and he got a kick out of knowing what to do next. We also resorted to a sticker chart as motivation at one point (again, when he was about 2). This worked well because he liked the concreteness of the chart. It didn't last long, but after a week or so of it we were in a good groove and the chart just kind of fell by the wayside.

Hang in there. It is so, so hard at times. And those of us with childhood trauma are really challenged in the GD area at times like this.

[Writerbird]

I just lurk here. The kid's on the inside, so I have no room to judge. But I do have a thought to share, coming from a household that wasn't ABUSIVE, but not exactly a fountain of nurturing.

I once woke up in the wee hours of the morning and heard my dad talking to my mother. He was crying. I have to tell you that it horrified me, because I hadn't see or heard that in my entire life. He was the one that caused crying, you know?

So anyway. It was after midnight, and my dad was just broken up. I woke up in the middle of the story, but basically, he was frightened that no matter how hard he tried, his best wasn't good enough. HIS dad once sprained my dad's knee, by virtue of tripping him and then twisting his leg until my dad was screaming, to teach my dad not to walk away when my grandmother was talking. (That alone would have shocked me out of my socks - I would never EVER have guessed that my quiet grandfather was like that.)

My dad's next speech stuck in my brain forever. He said "I can't blame the girls. I know they can't see that what I say is a tenth of what I'm thinking, and that I'm doing NONE of the things I was raised to do. But I try so hard, and I love them so much that I have to keep trying, and I wish they could know that."

It changed my entire relationship with my dad. I don't mean things miraculously got better overnight. But knowing he was doing his best, that he wasn't as omniscient as I'd been thinking he was, and finding out that every single day he was trying to do better than the day before? That was very powerful.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think that all of you are doing your kids a great service by struggling to do your best, and letting them know it IS a struggle... but that your love for them makes the struggle worth it. Finding that out from my dad changed my life. It could only have been better if he could have shared it with me directly.

[transformed]

thanks for your post, writerbird.

I have been trying to affirm myself latley for:

"If I am able to change nothing, if I turn out to be "my mother," I promise not to sweep things under the rug like she did. She would retreat into her room for hours (or days) after a large confrontation (not nessicarily physical....but you know the type) and then we would all pretend like nothing happened!"

That was the worst part of it all-we should have talked about it as a family.

But now I'm in charge...

[Momma_Camille]

I really feel like that's so key too.

When we do screw up we shouldn't leave the kids to mentally work it out on their own. They don't have the skills.

What am I saying? lol I barely have the skills!

Talking just helps.

[swampangel]

Originally Posted by Writerbird

I just lurk here. The kid's on the inside, so I have no room to judge. But I do have a thought to share, coming from a household that wasn't ABUSIVE, but not exactly a fountain of nurturing.

I once woke up in the wee hours of the morning and heard my dad talking to my mother. He was crying. I have to tell you that it horrified me, because I hadn't see or heard that in my entire life. He was the one that caused crying, you know?

So anyway. It was after midnight, and my dad was just broken up. I woke up in the middle of the story, but basically, he was frightened that no matter how hard he tried, his best wasn't good enough. HIS dad once sprained my dad's knee, by virtue of tripping him and then twisting his leg until my dad was screaming, to teach my dad not to walk away when my grandmother was talking. (That alone would have shocked me out of my socks - I would never EVER have guessed that my quiet grandfather was like that.)

My dad's next speech stuck in my brain forever. He said "I can't blame the girls. I know they can't see that what I say is a tenth of what I'm thinking, and that I'm doing NONE of the things I was raised to do. But I try so hard, and I love them so much that I have to keep trying, and I wish they could know that."

It changed my entire relationship with my dad. I don't mean things miraculously got better overnight. But knowing he was doing his best, that he wasn't as omniscient as I'd been thinking he was, and finding out that every single day he was trying to do better than the day before? That was very powerful.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think that all of you are doing your kids a great service by struggling to do your best, and letting them know it IS a struggle... but that your love for them makes the struggle worth it. Finding that out from my dad changed my life. It could only have been better if he could have shared it with me directly.

Wow....thank you so much for sharing this. (And congratulations on your baby!).

How old were you when you overheard this conversation? I feel like my oldest ds is just too young to take on too much information (he's 4 1/2). For now, I'm trying to shelter him a bit from the craziness that is my mother and my history with her (she is severely mentally ill). She's been in and out of the hospital loads of times and was commited by the state for a year about two years ago. He's seen her in different settings and knows that I do a lot for her, but he doesn't know more than that and I think that makes sense given his age. But I do often wonder how to talk about this stuff with him in the future. I do want him to know how different his experience is than mine was. His experience is so different mainly because I'm not suffering from a mental illness but also because I try so hard to do things in a healthy way where he's concerned. I fail and yell and make mistakes, but I do strive to do the very best I can for him.

Thanks again for sharing your perspective...that is so helpful to hear.

Originally Posted by transformed

thanks for your post, writerbird.

I have been trying to affirm myself latley for:

"If I am able to change nothing, if I turn out to be "my mother," I promise not to sweep things under the rug like she did. She would retreat into her room for hours (or days) after a large confrontation (not nessicarily physical....but you know the type) and then we would all pretend like nothing happened!"

That was the worst part of it all-we should have talked about it as a family.

But now I'm in charge...

Yes! Talking about it is so important. And I think just giving it words without getting specific feedback and input from your child is the important thing. I try to remind myself that I can just say what I want him to know very clearly and not get too wrapped up in his response...I know he heard me and that's what's important.

[transformed]

I wish I knew how to limit my exposure to my mom. (Without being a total b**** to her)

This morning is a good example, I am taking the kids over to her house so I can go shopping for a Halloween costume for them. (Getting in and out of the car a million times is not my 22 month olds favorite activity )

So my mom says "Do you want me to go shopping with you" I am thinking "Um, NO, I cant stand to be in the same room with you for 5 minutesm, let alone a 2 hour shopping trip!!" I just said no politley, but she is going to press me.

It ruins my whole day to spend time with my mother. :

I decided a few months ago, when I was wrestling with cutting her off, that I am going to let her screw up her own relationship (or not) with my kids. Her mother screwed up her own relationship with me, but my mom still made me hang out with her...when my kids come to me and tellme they dont like grandma very much-I'll make the call to not make them spend time over there! I havent seen any abuse really, just misled parenting skills, and thats fine. It will likley alienate them at some point, but I love natural consequences.

So what do you say when the person you cant stand wants to hang arounfg you and make you miserable al the time?

[Devaskyla]

So what do you say when the person you cant stand wants to hang arounfg you and make you miserable al the time?

"Hi Mom, when are you going home?"

Sorry, had to try to, really. Luckily my mother doesn't live really near- by, but she calls me every single night. It's driving me completely insane. Before my dad got sick, even when I moved out at 17, she called me once a week and that was ok, I could handle that. Then when dad was sick, she started called all of us every night (my sister, me & my 2 grandmas). Understandable, she was keeping us up to date on what was going on. When he died, she continued.

And for awhile, I could understand it, because she was lonely and grieving, but it's been *8* years since he died and she's still calling every single night. Even when she's staying at my sister's. Sometimes I just have to not call her back (she calls on the cell and then I use skype to call her). I can't away with that more than once every few weeks or so. If I did it a couple night in a row, she'd call the landlord (she's done it before).

I really wish some days that I could just cut off all contact with her, but she's not a bad person. She's just incredibly negative and disrespectful. And I'll never, ever forgive her for her comments when I finally found out I was adopted (and I didn't find out from my parents, big surprise).

[swampangel]

Originally Posted by transformed

I wish I knew how to limit my exposure to my mom. (Without being a total b**** to her)

This morning is a good example, I am taking the kids over to her house so I can go shopping for a Halloween costume for them. (Getting in and out of the car a million times is not my 22 month olds favorite activity )

So my mom says "Do you want me to go shopping with you" I am thinking "Um, NO, I cant stand to be in the same room with you for 5 minutesm, let alone a 2 hour shopping trip!!" I just said no politley, but she is going to press me.

It ruins my whole day to spend time with my mother. :

I decided a few months ago, when I was wrestling with cutting her off, that I am going to let her screw up her own relationship (or not) with my kids. Her mother screwed up her own relationship with me, but my mom still made me hang out with her...when my kids come to me and tellme they dont like grandma very much-I'll make the call to not make them spend time over there! I havent seen any abuse really, just misled parenting skills, and thats fine. It will likley alienate them at some point, but I love natural consequences.

So what do you say when the person you cant stand wants to hang arounfg you and make you miserable al the time?

I think it's totally within reason to limit your exposure to your mom. It might also have the bi-product of feeling empowering to you because you're taking action toward taking care of yourself and making YOU the priority.

I think a big part of setting these kinds of boundaries is being clear about your intention. If you figure out what you're ok with and what you're no in terms of spending time with your mom, then it's about you and not about trying to get at her or impact her in some way. Does that make sense?

I'd also try to shift your interpretation a bit about your mom's intentions. If she's truly sadistic and trying to make you miserable, that's one thing. But if it's a matter of her own unresolved stuff and it's eeking out onto you, then perhaps you can remind yourself that she's doing the best she can for now. Not to say that you don't have the right to be angry, but sometimes if you can throw some compassion into the mix, it can actually feel better to you.

In the case of her wanting to join you on the shopping trip, you can express to her that you are really looking forward to the time alone without the kids. Then it isn't about her, it's about you. And you can be thankful that she is able to support you in getting some time for yourself.

You're right about her charting her own relationship with your kids. You can't architect that for them. I would just keep an eye out for anything you feel crosses the line and then let your kids make their own decisions about how they feel about her.

My sister made a big mistake, IMO, of not filtering her own stuff at all around her child. She would blast our mother all the time in front of her kid...well, that pretty much predetermined whatever kind of relationship her child was going to have with her grandmother. Not fair, IMO. Yes, our mother really did a number on us, but I don't think it's fair to poison the possibility of a different relationship between our children and our mother. Does that make sense? I've really tried to keep my own stuff out of my son's relationship with my mother. Those connections are important if they aren't dangerous or abusive. Cutting someone out creates a lot of loss and should be a very careful consideration, IMO.