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The Case Against Circumcision - Page 2

post #21 of 74
Great thread! I didn't really do a lot of research when I was pregnant because we knew we were having a girl, but since joining MDC I've learned so much. The foreskin IS a valuable organ.
post #22 of 74
Thread Starter 
Ironica- I am so glad you were able to get such a great doctor. That is wonderful to hear that more doctors are learning about this and not recommending circumcision!!


A note to parents with intact sons:



Be warned that it is common in the USA for doctors to think young children have 'phimosis' becuase their foreskin is not retractable. Foreskin retractability may not happen until teenage years. Many doctors will jump the gun and diagnose phimosis when, in reality,it is simply normal adherence of the foreskin to the glans.

In Europe, true phimosis is treated by creams and procedures like a dorsal slit, which do not involve removal of the foreskin.

In the USA, however, many circumcision happy urologists are unaware or unwilling to use these techniques, preferring to 'go with what they know' and recommend circumcision.

To read more about this I recommend:

Protect Your Uncircumcised Son: Expert Medical Advice for Parents

http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

When you get a case like Ironica's where urination is problematic, that is the sign of problems, not the retractability of the foreskin.

Quote:
-Your son's foreskin is too tight. It doesn't retract. He needs to be circumcised.

The tightness of the foreskin is a safety mechanism that protects the glans and urethra from direct exposure to contaminants and germs. The tight foreskin also keeps the boy's glans warm, clean, and moist, and when he is an adult, it will give him pleasure. As long as your son can urinate, he is perfectly normal. There is no age by which a child's foreskin must be retractable. Do not let your doctor or anyone try to retract your child's foreskin. Optimal hygiene of the penis demands that the foreskin of infants and children be left alone. Premature retraction rips the skin of the penis open and causes your child extreme pain. There is no legitimate medical justification for retraction. The child's discomfort is proof of that.

-Your son's foreskin is "adhered" to the glans. It must be amputated.

The attachment of the foreskin and glans is nature's way of protecting the undeveloped glans from premature exposure. Detachment is a normal physiological process that can take up to two decades to complete. By the end of puberty, the foreskin will have detached from the glans because hormones that are produced in great quantities at puberty help with the process. There is no age by which a child's foreskin must be fully separated from the glans.

Some misguided doctors might suggest that the "adhesions" between the foreskin and glans should be broken so that your son can retract his foreskin. This procedure is called synechotomy. To perform it, the doctor pushes a blunt metal probe under the foreskin and forcibly rips it from the glans. It's as painful and traumatic as having a metal probe stuck under your fingernail to pull if off. It will also cause bleeding and may result in infection and scarring of the inner lining of the foreskin and the glans. The wounds that are created by this forced separation can fuse together, causing true adhesions. There is no medical justification for this procedure because the foreskin is not supposed to be separated from the glans in childhood. If any doctor suggests this procedure for your son, firmly refuse, stating, "Leave it alone!"

If you need assistance finding a doctor that is 'foreskin friendly', try the "finding your tribe" section or the case against circumcision forum.

with love

Carrie
post #23 of 74
Thread Starter 
Also, the condition Ironica spoke of where the penis is drawn back into the fat pad is called buried penis. It is a risk of circumcision, caused usually by overzealous cutting.

You can read about this here:

http://www.drgreene.com/21_1125.html

We have some moms who post on the CAC board whose sons have suffered both webbed and buried penis you can search the board for their stories.
post #24 of 74
No circ here, girl or boy!
post #25 of 74
I'm not sure if any of you have seen this, but I posted a sort of funny story about converting my husband in the CAC forum. I just sent him the links at the top of this thread and that completely turned him around!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=775575
post #26 of 74
My son is welcome to be circumcised...and pierced and tattooed...when he's old enough to make the decision to modify his own body.

Momentary rant: I hate the term "circ" - it sounds cute. I know it's just easier to type, but it totally creeps me out. End rant
post #27 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
Be warned that it is common in the USA for doctors to think young children have 'phimosis' becuase their foreskin is not retractable. Foreskin retractability may not happen until teenage years. Many doctors will jump the gun and diagnose phimosis when, in reality,it is simply normal adherence of the foreskin to the glans.

In Europe, true phimosis is treated by creams and procedures like a dorsal slit, which do not involve removal of the foreskin.

In the USA, however, many circumcision happy urologists are unaware or unwilling to use these techniques, preferring to 'go with what they know' and recommend circumcision.
Our pediatrician, btw, diagnosed phimosis based on physical appearance; he noted a whitish "dot" near/at the opening, which is apparently a strong indicator of phimosis. It obviously was a good diagnosis in my son's case, and we got good treatment. But it is soooo scary what doctors don't know!
post #28 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishcupcake View Post
My son is welcome to be circumcised...and pierced and tattooed...when he's old enough to make the decision to modify his own body.

Momentary rant: I hate the term "circ" - it sounds cute. I know it's just easier to type, but it totally creeps me out. End rant
:

My parents didn't circumcise my brother and my father, being from south america, wasn't circumcised either. So they were telling us not to. And of course, I was like, whatever, dh is so that's probably what we'll do. Interestingly enough, my dh and I never really considered going the non-circumcision route until a colleague asked if we were going to circumcise if we had a boy. Suddenly it wasn't just my parents weird ideas about sexuality (and they've got some ) but seemed worth looking into. When I googled it, it took all of 30 seconds to decide. Dh wants a restoration kit but we haven't been able to swing the $ to get one for some time now, poor man! He feels cheated, in never having had the chance to choose for himself. I'm really thankful to that guy who just posed the question because, like I said, we wouldn't have taken the issue seriously if he hadn't.
My brother, coincidentally, chose not to circumcise his boys as well so it's kind of nice to not be the only one in the family (well, our boys are the only intact ones on dh's side of the family).
post #29 of 74
to all of you. we are def not circing if it's a boy
post #30 of 74
If it's a boy this time we will not circumcise. When I was pregnant with dd and we weren't sure of the sex of the baby I told dh we wouldn't circumcise. He is, so at first he said we should but when I showed him some research, pictures and videos he said no way ! Even if dh was adamant about our babe being circumcised I wouldn't let the doctor anywhere near our baby !
post #31 of 74
My conversation with DH just the other night:

Me: How do you feel about circumcision? (He is.)
Him: Hm. I don't know. Doesn't seem like any studies point to anything conclusive either way as far as long term pros and cons.
Me: We're not doing it.
Him: OK, sounds good.

post #32 of 74
I'm a newbie here.
I'm having a hard time with DH on this one. I've shown him article after article against circumsising, and he doesn't listen because he thinks it all biased and opinion based. First we don't even know what our baby's gender is. I do not want to circ at all. He does. What can I do? How much more can I make him read, although I don't think he'll read it.
Also if we're in the hospital aren't *I* the one that needs to sign parental consent to get this done. I refuse to do it.
post #33 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulmomma View Post
I'm a newbie here.
I'm having a hard time with DH on this one. I've shown him article after article against circumsising, and he doesn't listen because he thinks it all biased and opinion based. First we don't even know what our baby's gender is. I do not want to circ at all. He does. What can I do? How much more can I make him read, although I don't think he'll read it.
Also if we're in the hospital aren't *I* the one that needs to sign parental consent to get this done. I refuse to do it.
First of all welcome to MDC! I'd recommend with starting posting and reading in the CAC forum here. You can great info from the mamas (and papas!) there on how to approach this subject with your husband. If you don't want to circumcise your son, please continue to research and talk to your husband. If he wanted to circumcise your daughter I'm sure you wouldn't let that happen, so it shouldn't be any different if you have a boy. I do know that it was hard for my husband to hear the bad stuff about circ at first because he is circumcised. Just something to think about. Good luck!
post #34 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by GISDiva View Post
Me: How do you feel about circumcision? (He is.)
Him: Hm. I don't know. Doesn't seem like any studies point to anything conclusive either way as far as long term pros and cons.
Me: We're not doing it.
Him: OK, sounds good.
I think we're married to the same man.

A few weeks after we had a very similar conversation, he asked me, "So did we ever decide on the whole circumcision thing?"

He's a SMART guy, I swear.
post #35 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulmomma View Post
I'm a newbie here.
I'm having a hard time with DH on this one. I've shown him article after article against circumsising, and he doesn't listen because he thinks it all biased and opinion based. First we don't even know what our baby's gender is. I do not want to circ at all. He does. What can I do? How much more can I make him read, although I don't think he'll read it.
Also if we're in the hospital aren't *I* the one that needs to sign parental consent to get this done. I refuse to do it.
Do you think he would watch a funny show? Penn and Teller did an episode on circumcision...it contains some nudity and foul language but is very funny and is very anti circumcision. I can get you a copy if you think it would help. Let me know.

Also, I would def post in the CAC board if you would like more ideas...lots of moms have dealt with this as well
post #36 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulmomma View Post
Also if we're in the hospital aren't *I* the one that needs to sign parental consent to get this done. I refuse to do it.
Technically yes, but I have a friend in Louisiana that was still in the recovery room after her c-section when her dh signed the papers and they took the hours old newborn off to get cut. I don't think she talked to her dh the rest of her hospital stay.

For me circ is a foot down, no way in hell topic. Most things in our marriage are negotiable, but cutting a child isn't one of them. Once my dh knew how strongly I felt on the issue and that I would leave him over it he didn't bug me about it anymore. Now that our intact little guy is almost 2 and he has started learning more about circ he is horrified by the entire idea. If this one is a boy it won't even be a topic for discussion. Thankfully the hospital our ds was born at and this one will be born at does not perform circs on newborns.
post #37 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by s_kristina View Post
For me circ is a foot down, no way in hell topic. Most things in our marriage are negotiable, but cutting a child isn't one of them. Once my dh knew how strongly I felt on the issue and that I would leave him over it he didn't bug me about it anymore.
Yeah, that. Thats how it went for us too. Only I actually left him over it, and then he seemed to "get it".
Now he's wanting to restore. : )
post #38 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by s_kristina View Post
For me circ is a foot down, no way in hell topic. Most things in our marriage are negotiable, but cutting a child isn't one of them. Once my dh knew how strongly I felt on the issue and that I would leave him over it he didn't bug me about it anymore. Now that our intact little guy is almost 2 and he has started learning more about circ he is horrified by the entire idea. If this one is a boy it won't even be a topic for discussion. Thankfully the hospital our ds was born at and this one will be born at does not perform circs on newborns.
DH is hesitant to jump on the NO CIRCUMCISION bandwagon...but the other night he confided to me that it's just not worth the fight with me. It's one of the few subjects I think he may find me scary when discussing.
post #39 of 74
DH will never be a hardcore anti-circ warrior (neither will I, for that matter... we're just not the hardcore types about pretty much anything), but he's "on the bandwagon" in the sense that he agrees that there's no good reason for RIC.
post #40 of 74
My DH is still struggling with the "everyone else does it" thing...
And doctors ALWAYS know best...
So, there MUST be a reason to circumcise a child if the doctor suggests it and "everyone" does it... :
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