What are School Administrators Thinking???

[jbodily]

My 15 year old threw a water bottle from the bus last week. I am being told that an empty water bottle dented a car (have yet to see the car and the police said they were sending a report but have yet to see that either). The school, in their infinite wisdom, have suspended the child for 10 days, will take 30% off his grade, and can extend the suspension under the guidance of the superintendent. And they have already requested an extension.

OK, I hear about this on a Friday afternoon at 2m while I am at work. I become upset...who wouldn't...and the administrator keeps going on and on about how dangerous his behavior is. I finally just tell her I can't talk about this because I am too upset and can't think rationally. She calls me three (3) more times!!! to tell me all about his suspension. I keep telling her to stop calling, I can't do this right now. I go in on Monday to talk to her. I ask her what she expects my child to learn from this experience. Her answer is "I hope he learns to never do this again." I try to explain that because I have to go to work (I just missed 2 weeks due to a preschooler with behavioral issues) he is seeing this as a vacation. She just states she is following policy.

I called my attorney who suggested getting copies of the policy and requesting a hearing with the Board of Education. Dh called the Board and was told that they can suspend a student for no reason for up to 10 days and the parents have no recourse. And they can take the 30% off the grade. BUT there is an alternative program he can attend and will receive full credit for his work. In addition, the school does not have to provide the homework for the time out so he could lose 100% causing him to fail his classes.

Am I wrong to think this is just ridiculous??? I am not suggesting that my son not face consequences. What he did is wrong. I suggested that he should lose his bus privileges for 2 weeks (having to walk home) and make restitution. The school administrator basically laughed at me and told me that was not severe enough. Let's see...no school, no homework..school refuses to turn paperwork to district so he can attend alternative program... and no parent at home during day OR go to school, do homework, walk home, work and pay off debt...hmmm...is this really a question???

Would love to hear thoughts on this one. Oh and btw if we fight the Board he loses 100% of his credit if we lose.

Jamie

[Marcee]

While I can see kicking him off the bus, and the police and said car owner being involved, I have NO idea why the school would suspend him AND take away 30% of his grade.... That is INSANE!!! He should be punished. But I dont get the grade thing.

[mtiger]

Actually, I don't think it's too harsh. What if the driver whose car was hit lost control in the face of some unidentified object hitting his/her car and slammed into an oncoming car, killing someone? No, that's not being dramatic. It happens quite often.

If it were my kid, he'd be coming to work with me every day, not getting a free pass sitting at home.

[angelpie545]

The school's actions on this case are ridiculous, punitive, and outrageous. In fact, the school shouldn't even be involved in this. It's a legal matter between you, your son, and the driver of the car that was suppousedly damaged. Yes, I get that it happened on a school bus, but legally that shouldn't change anything. It didn't happen on school grounds, and even if it did, it happend outside of the building, obviously not within school hours. I think that if your son did actually cause damage to another vehicle, then he should work to pay off the costs of the car. That's the right punishment. Taking away 30% of his grade because of a bottle hitting the car is completely missing the point and will only harm his self-esteem and self-worth. It won't teach him anything except to hate anyone in authority because of the unfairness of the consequences. And what's this about if you fight the board, he losses his WHOLE grade? Is that the POLICY?? So if parents disagree with the policy, and fight it, the child looses? I cannot, CANNOT see how that can be legal. I'd follow your attorney's advice and ask for a written statement of the boards policy, and if that's truly the case that your child looses 100% of his grade if you choose to challange this assinine punishment, I'd be running into court so fast their heads would spin. I'd also call the local news and make sure that the entire public knows how little their children's education is valued the school district, and how they expect everyone to be sheep and not question anything. What a crock. You have every right to be completely livid.

[Jessy1019]

Stupid school.

What he did was wrong, no doubt, but that's an awfully extreme punishment.

If he fails all his classes because of this, he's going to have to repeat the semester, right? Or do summer classes? If the school put my kid in that position, I think I'd just pull him out altogether and let him pursue a GED/homeschool.

[AllisonR]

The consequences are all wrong (ie at home all day playing instead of studying) but the consequences should be harsh. Throwing anything out of a moving vehicle, which can easily (and did) hit another vehicle, is dangerous. Regardless of whatever happens, I hope your DC does learn a valuable lesson - that he could have really hurt someone.

At a much later age, a friend and I threw warm water and chicken fat out of a 7 story building onto people on the street below (all dressed up to go to the paladium night club.) Boy, did we think this was funny. It ruined their clothes, gave them a shock. Well, the boys living in the apt above us also thought it was funny, and threw a chair out the window. A metal chair. Onto a busy street. The chair was completely demolished, and I guarantee that if a person had been under it, said person would be dead. The police came, the boys were evicted immediately. We never threw anything out the window again. I am sorry it had to get to that point to knock some sense into our heads.

[<~*MamaRose*~>]

The school has every right to be involved, he was on the school bus when the incident happened. They are still responsible for him until he steps off that bus. My son did something similar with a juice box and was suspended for 5 days so i know the outrage you're feeling but it really is dangerous. The grade thing though I'd fight. I also don't agree with the police involvement and the claim of a plastic water bottle denting a car. Give me a break. I'm willing to bet nothing comes of that so don't sweat it.

[Arduinna]

Ok yes we all know it was wrong. But it was an empty water bottle. I'm having a very very hard time seeing big ol damage from an empty water bottle. What am I missing here?

And 30% of his grade and a 10 day suspension? Are they freaking nuts?

Schools are so freaking power trippy now days.

[purslaine]

I can tolerate the suspension (although I too think it is stupid) - but I would be all over them about the grade.

Exactly how does throwing a water bottle out a window affect his grade in, say, math?

And does the school expect him to try in any given class if he knows he is almost gaurenteed to flunk the course? Why would he even go to class?

I also think the school is sending a horrible message: we do not care about you, and one screw-up= you're out. Bleh!

Kathy

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by AllisonR

The consequences are all wrong (ie at home all day playing instead of studying)

He really does NOT have to be home all day playing. Yes, I know that not *every* job lends itself to bringing the kid with. I work retail - which is generally less accommodating than office work for this sort of thing. But I can almost guarantee that my store manager would let me bring him - and put him to work. The last thing he'd be doing is playing.

"Eh, it was an empty bottle." Have you ever had something unexpected fly up into your windshield? Do you drive along saying "La la la, it was an empty bottle, no big deal"? Or do you have an instinctive reaction? Which could lead to a tragic situation. I'm sorry, but this sort of behavior needs to be nipped in the bud from the get-go. Especially with a child approaching driving age.

The school has every right to be involved. They are responsible for the child from the moment he walks out the front door to the moment he walks back in it at the end of the day.

And.... environmental incorrectness by littering!

[mammastar2]

It sounds like he did something potentially dangerous that was impulsive and stupid. Obviously there should be some kind of a repercussion.

I like your idea of losing bus privileges and making restitution much better, though - it's actually connected in some way with what happened.


The suspension and grade consequence does not relate directly to what happened, and frankly it sounds like it will stress out his mama far more than it will stress out him. Most mothers can't bring their teenager to work for 2 weeks, if they want to keep their job.

[UUMom]

I am sitting here thinking how up in arms people would be if the water bottle hit an MDC child who was standing near the bus instead of a total stranger's car. "Call the police! FIle charges against the bully! He's 15 -- that was no accident, a child of that age should know better than to throw things out of a moving bus ! How dangerous! What a bully!" etc etc yadda etc.

[purslaine]

Sure....he should be in trouble.

But is what the school is doing the best consequence?
And how are grades involved:?

Kathy

[MillingNome]

Duh- of course what he did was wrong. You don't and no one on here sounds like they are condoning throwing stuff out the window. It gets thorny when doling out punishment. I really am annoyed at punishing (sp?) at the lowest level of morality.

The outcome of the school's punishment would leave, imo, a child being afraid to do something stupid like that for fear of getting caught, suspended (although most kids do look at that like vacation!) and messing with school grades. What do any of those have to do with the original action, I have no idea.

I am sure there are other things that could be done to help the child realize just how dangerous it could be to throw stuff out a window... or at least how gross all that stuff is along the road. What about picking up trash from the road? How about "volunteering" at a hospital where people are who've been injured in car accidents. I mean anything that will have some semblence (sp?) of natural consequences to what he did.


BTW- An empty water bottle dented a car??!?! Really?!!?

[Missy]

The school's actions on this case are ridiculous, punitive, and outrageous. In fact, the school shouldn't even be involved in this. It's a legal matter between you, your son, and the driver of the car that was suppousedly damaged. Yes, I get that it happened on a school bus, but legally that shouldn't change anything. It didn't happen on school grounds, and even if it did, it happend outside of the building, obviously not within school hours.

If a child is on a school bus, the school is still very much involved. In most school districts that I'm familiar with, in fact, the school is responsible for the student from the time he enters school property (either building or bus) until he arrives at the home/day care facility, etc...So, if a student leaves school and gets in a fight on the way home, even several blocks from the school, the school can still discipline the child. This child was one a school bus, which is, obviously, school property and therefore falls under school jurisdiction.

A 15-year-old is old enough to consider the consequences of his actions. He's almost old enough to drive, which means he needs to be thinking about the impact of his actions on the drivers around him. An empty water bottle sounds relatively harmless, but the results could have been fatal. The only part of the punishment that is unreasonable is the 30% loss of credit; the grades he has already earned should not be affected. That, I would fight. I really can't blame an administrator for being irate about it. If something had happened to the driver of that car or anyone else, the school system would have been held liable.

I'm sure there are more effective ways than a simple 2-week suspension; but, it's only a "vacation" if the parents let it be a vacation. The suspension should be filled with things like iamthesmilingone, such as cleaning up trash or volunteering (although I realize she intended for them to be instead of suspension, I don't).

[momof2boys1girl]

I understand the school being involved as any behavior on the bus must be reported to the principal. I think that in school suspension and losing bus privilages makes more sense tho. I dont understand how they can do out of school suspension, demote his grade, and possibley extend the suspension is a lot.
I would also be demanding a copy of the charges against him,proof of damage, and want to speak to the person who owns the car that has the damage as a minor you are the guardian and with the police involved you should have full access to all of that info.
I do think some punishment is necessary as it is dangerous to thow objects at cars.

Good Luck!

[MillingNome]

The suspension should be filled with things like iamthesmilingone, such as cleaning up trash or volunteering (although I realize she intended for them to be instead of suspension, I don't).

True... I just would like to see a clearer connection between the action and the consequnce. If a child is suspended from school, as it appears in this case, it can be more of a punishment for the parent. I worry about the effect it would have on their job and livelyhood and cost associated with arranging supervision if it is not ok to bring said suspended kid to work. Messing with a family's finances does not make sense to me over this incident when there are other options for punishment/consequences.

[Storm Bride]

I don't get this consequence at all. Throwing things out of a moving vehicle is really dangerous, and there definitely should be serious consequences. But, the consequences should have something to do with the offence. The boy's grades have to do with the work he's done in class, not with something he did after school on the bus home. Taking his bus privileges and making him walk makes sense - this doesn't.

This reminds me of one of my son's friends, who gets grounded for everything. His stepmom is big on "consequences", but the consequences have nothing to do with the offending behaviour. Get lippy with your stepmom? You're grounded. Forget to eat your lunch and leave it in your pack? You're grounded. Don't finish your chores? You're grounded.

What on earth does a kid learn from "consequences" that have no connection to whatever they did wrong?

[AbundantLife]

I have a 14 year old and an 18 year old. The youngest has problems with impulse control. I also had an incident happen to him in school which resulted from another child's lack of impulse control which resulted in the other child being suspended. Last year, my then-17 year old lost the starring role in the school play due to getting his only failing grade ever in a class. He tried to appeal, but the school wouldn't hear of it. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and deal with the consequences of your actions.

My 14 year old is now grounded for doing something unsafe and impulsive, though not involving another person. My 14 year old had 2 bus referrals last year for not obeying bus rules.

I believe that your DS should be punished for what he did. If he gets the impression that you think the school is being too harsh, he may not think it is important to respect the rules at school and on the bus.

It is well known that young teens do not always make the best decisions, due to their brains not being fully developed. Nevertheless, your DS did do something dangerous. I hope that you talked to him about the possible consequences of his actions. Perhaps when he is done with the suspension, he could do some make up work to bring his grade back up.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by AbundantLife

I believe that your DS should be punished for what he did. If he gets the impression that you think the school is being too harsh, he may not think it is important to respect the rules at school and on the bus.

I agree that her ds should have consequences (or punishment). However, I'd be hard-pressed to pretend I agreed with the school in her shoes. The punishment isn't so much "too harsh" as wildly inappropriate. While I don't know the OP's son, I can assure you that this kind of random crap never encouraged anybody I know to have respect for the school and/or the rules. It simply taught us that we were right - the school staff/admin had their heads stuffed so far up their own butts that they couldn't see daylight. While I don't have quite that view today, I certainly had it all through school, and the random nature of the consequences that we received for misbehaviour only ever reinforced it.

You can't teach someone to respect the rules by handing out arbitrary, disconnected punishments for misbehaviour. You can easily teach them not to respect the rules that way, though.