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I hate "education"- rant! - Page 2

post #21 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thao View Post
The parent involvement stuff is important, I believe studies have shown that the more parents are involved in the school the better it is all around.
The studies show that kids who have involved parents do better. Of course this might be 'cause the parents who are involved, have other things going for them.

They don't show that when the school tries to force the parents to get involved, all the kids do better.
post #22 of 48
Right, I guess I'm not seeing any coercion. So the school sent home some materials. If the OP doesn't want her child doing schoolwork outside of school hours, she can write a nice note to the teacher letting them know where she stands.

It's kindergarten, you know? I can't imagine it would be a big deal. 'Course, I don't know the school. If they try to guilt-trip the parent, if the school is that high-pressure, then it's probably not a good place for the OP's child.

The schools here in Vietnam are super high pressure. First graders doing 2 hours of homework a night . We put our daughter in a local school because we want her to learn Vietnamese. But I also went and talked to the teacher and told her what our limits were in terms of homework. She was happy to accomodate us, and it wasn't a problem.
post #23 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thao View Post
Right, I guess I'm not seeing any coercion. So the school sent home some materials. If the OP doesn't want her child doing schoolwork outside of school hours, she can write a nice note to the teacher letting them know where she stands.
I have heard of some children being kept in from morning recess, to complete the homework they didn't do the night before.

You're probably right that this wouldn't happen in kindergarten. There are, however, some parents who feel just as strongly about grades 1 to 3, and even later grades. After 7 hours at school, mostly sitting at a desk, some parents feel their children should be free to have another life when they get home -- playing outdoors or doing whatever they enjoy 'til bedtime.

OP, as far as thinking you can't homeschool/unschool if your child likes Bratz -- maybe you're thinking there's just one "type" of homeschooling family. Nothing could be further from the truth.
post #24 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
: Have you read gatto?

OP-dont do it if you havent, not this week anyways.
haha.

I actually did re-read "Instead of Education" by Holt this weekend- because I'm that kind of masochist!

I really agree with PP about taking over kids' time. I used to read like crazy as a kid- like in 5th grade I read from when I got home till dinner. I read Exodus in 4 days in 5th grade. I also read 1 book per day during vacations. (Maybe that's why I wear glasses!)

Many kids today don't have the time to read like that- or do anything in that kind of obsessive, exciting way. They are too busy with extra curriculars and homework.

A private school I'm looking at right now give homework in 4th and 5th grades largely to build "time management" skills. Like giving large assicgnments so kids can plan when they will get everything done given that they have after school stuff 2 times a week.

I didn't deal with long term planning at all till Jr. High as far as I rmemeber- well maybe 1 or two larger papers in 6th grade. And I was always one of the top students- largely due to my extreme reading habit.
post #25 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Poot View Post
I'd hire a babysitter for the hours you work and homeschool when you get home. Kindy is really that crazy nowadays? Yikes. :
I wish I had the guts to do this.

On the other hand, this summer when we still had this set up, dd always wanted me to make playdates for her. Now that her few friends who used to have free time are in school, it would be hard to get her as much social time as she might like.
post #26 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thao View Post

Some perspective: I've had my dd in the Vietnamese school system for the last 2 years and it makes the US school system look like HEAVEN. We can't wait to get back and get her into a somewhat saner school system!
I've heard this about a lot of other countries. I totally feel for you.

One thing I find interesting is that every country is trying to make the kids smarter to compete in the "global market." However, considering the situation with the environment, I seriously wonder if the growth on which the global market depends will be sustainable by the time our kids grow up.

(I know that's another topic, but it is one that informs my ideas about the "point" of education a lot.)
post #27 of 48
What irks me is all these activities they set up for evenings. I have a chronic illness and most evenings I'm too exhausted to drive safely. Not to mention that I'm a single mother and I have childcare during the day when school is in session, but not in the evenings. This is less of an issue now that my oldest is 12yo- I can go out for the evening and leave the 3 kids home alone- but DS won't go to sleep if I'm not there. Evening activities will only work if I can get him to bed before I go out. And by then I'm tired!
post #28 of 48
In my town, the public school starts kids in a full-day program from age 3. Most people around here seem to feel that's just fantastic, and I have had to answer lots of questions about why my son isn't in school. I'm a SAHM, he's out and about with me all day. We do tons of fun stuff, he learns new things constantly, and our lives are our own. If he feels like building sofa-cushion forts and hanging around in them wearing nothing but his boxer shorts all afternoon, well by golly, he can do that. The freedoms of childhood are short-lived anyway.

I hated school, even when I was doing well. Kinda like how I'd imagine prison still sucks, even if the guards are decent people and you don't have to fight with other inmates.
post #29 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
What irks me is all these activities they set up for evenings. I have a chronic illness and most evenings I'm too exhausted to drive safely. Not to mention that I'm a single mother and I have childcare during the day when school is in session, but not in the evenings. This is less of an issue now that my oldest is 12yo- I can go out for the evening and leave the 3 kids home alone- but DS won't go to sleep if I'm not there. Evening activities will only work if I can get him to bed before I go out. And by then I'm tired!
I feel for you. I'm healthy as a horse, and I have no interest whatsoever in doing anything other than reading and sleeping after 7:30 pm.
post #30 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyofshmoo View Post
I wish I had the guts to do this.

On the other hand, this summer when we still had this set up, dd always wanted me to make playdates for her. Now that her few friends who used to have free time are in school, it would be hard to get her as much social time as she might like.
Why not get to know some homeschooling moms in your community -- and see if you can make babysitting arrangements with moms who have children close in age to your dd?

I used to think I'd NEVER want to commit to regular babysitting -- but now that my 7yo has such a strong need for frequent playdates with other children, I find a couple of days a week (babysitting for other homeschoolers close to dd's age) works great.

I still wouldn't want it to be an everyday thing: that's why I recommend hooking up with more than 1 mom -- unless you happen to find a mom who wants to do it everyday.

I think you'll find your dd's able to meet her social needs way more effectively this way -- especially when you consider how little actual playtime most children get in school (well, maybe she gets a lot now, but after kindergarten it gets so structured).

Another cool thing about homeschooling is you can be a lot more flexible and have overnights any night of the week that works for both families. My dd has one girlfriend who's been coming every 1 to 2 weeks for a 24-hour period. I sure never got that much socializing when I was in school -- at least not during the school year!

To top it all off, if dd hasn't had a playdate and wants to connect with some of her neighborhood friends, I remind her when it's about 4:00 because that's when a lot of the kids come home from school. Sometimes some are able to play -- but, sadly, even some this young are already bogged down by homework.:
post #31 of 48
A lot of homeschoolers are looking for playmates for their dc too. Maybe check out local groups to see what the possibilities are.

It seems like you haven't really thought about homeschooling as something that is realistic for you, more like you start to think about it and then something cuts it off like "no it wouldn't work because she needs a lot of social time" or "other homeschoolers would scoff at her Bratz lunchbox"... Those are not really obstacles to homeschooling. Lots of homeschoolers have dc who need a lot of social time and will be just as happy as you to get the kids together. I personally wouldn't bat an eye at the lunchbox! My ds wears spider-man sneakers and I couldn't care less if anyone doesn't like them!

I like mammal mama's idea of combining your need for a babysitter with visiting other homeschooling families. It would likely cost less than a babysitter too.

I think if school's working for someone and their kids then that's great. But it doesn't seem like you are at all satisfied with the school situation and that you are not likely to be any time soon. It's not as if you just have problems with kindy or the teacher, it's the whole system you don't like and I am definitely with you there. Best of luck finding a solution. I'm sure there is one, but it might not be obvious at the moment.
post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needle in the Hay View Post
I like mammal mama's idea of combining your need for a babysitter with visiting other homeschooling families. It would likely cost less than a babysitter too.
Yes! In our case, being without a car during weekdays while dh's got it at work, it's such a convenience having 2 of dd's friends brought over 2 days a week. I do feel a need for them to bring their own food -- since this is a regular thing, two 11-hour periods a week. I'm willing to not make any money (as my friend is very low-income); I just can't afford to be out any money.
post #33 of 48
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the moral support! I feel much less upset about this issue now that my PMS is clearing, but I am likely going to change the school she attends. It's not a perfect option, perhaps, but I think it will be better. The school I'm leaning towards has administrators who I jive with. They do assess kids and assign homework in older grades- but a lot of the pressure to do this comes from the parents, not the teachers or administrators.

I know I would rather be in a situation with no assessment and more free time- but I have 2 schools open to me right now, and they are both a lot better than where she currently goes. Maybe I'll considering HS'ing if I feel like I can't make it work at another school.

Much as I dislike education, I think I dislike public education the most. Public school serves too many interests other than the students'. Yesterday they told my dd to collect box tops for the school- to win some prize, and gave her a list of products that have the right kind of box tops. Like, I'm supposed to go out and buy these products?!?!?!?!?! YUCK!
post #34 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyofshmoo View Post
Yesterday they told my dd to collect box tops for the school- to win some prize, and gave her a list of products that have the right kind of box tops. Like, I'm supposed to go out and buy these products?!?!?!?!?! YUCK!
*Shudder*
Guerilla advertising campaigns for grade schools.
Unscrupulous.
post #35 of 48
Quote:
I hated school, even when I was doing well. Kinda like how I'd imagine prison still sucks, even if the guards are decent people and you don't have to fight with other inmates.
You didn't seriously just compare school to prison, did you?
post #36 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel View Post
You didn't seriously just compare school to prison, did you?
School is totally like prison: you are forced to be somewhere even against your will for a period of time not determined by you. Your time is not your own, you have to ask permission to perform even the most basic bodily functions, you have to follow a long list of rules that you did not help to create, and you are punished if you do not adhere to these rules. Often you have to eat whatever it is you are served at meals in total silence, and then are allowed a certain prescribed amount of outdoors time, again, not when or where you choose.

Oh, and it lasts for years!
post #37 of 48
School is nothing like prison. Anyone who would make a statement like that has obviously not seen the inside of a prison.
post #38 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel View Post
You didn't seriously just compare school to prison, did you?
Well, it was a hyperbole, but as Water points out, there are similarities between the two institutions.

I respect that others experience their time in the public education system differently. I really did feel this way, though.
post #39 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by water View Post
School is totally like prison: you are forced to be somewhere even against your will for a period of time not determined by you. Your time is not your own, you have to ask permission to perform even the most basic bodily functions, you have to follow a long list of rules that you did not help to create, and you are punished if you do not adhere to these rules. Often you have to eat whatever it is you are served at meals in total silence, and then are allowed a certain prescribed amount of outdoors time, again, not when or where you choose.

Oh, and it lasts for years!
So true, especially about your time not being your own! That was what I hated the most: I could even handle the continual thirst (I always craved more than the 3 swallows of water we were each allowed on our way in from recess) --

But to not even be allowed my daydreams -- that was intolerable. So I snuck off to my secret world as often as I could, and just endured the reprimands and ridicule every time I was caught "not paying attention."

I'm glad some people have fun in the institution; that doesn't make it any less an institution.
post #40 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel View Post
School is nothing like prison. Anyone who would make a statement like that has obviously not seen the inside of a prison.
I've been on a couple of tours. It's true the prisons don't have all the cute, colorful posters. And they don't close for weekends, holidays, or parent-teacher conferences, either.

And at least the schools let you keep your underclothes ... at least they did the last time I was there.

But some of the "Lord of the Flies"-type behavior you can see on the rated R prison-flicks ... well, maybe there's not as much rape in school as in prison (at least as prisons are portrayed by Hollywood), but I think there's every bit as much cruelty.

Still, I guess the highschool diploma doesn't interfere with your job prospects as much as the prison diploma!

So, yeah, I'd definitely choose school over prison. But that's about all I can say for it: it's better than prison.
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