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The Pinworm Thread - Page 2

post #21 of 257
If I may ask, StrongBeliever, what made you go vegetarian? It's really not something to be taken lightly...not that you are, but I am curious as to the process and where you found the information about parasites being made worse.
post #22 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
Well, if you are unable or unwilling to clean up the diet and let them finish doing hte job then maybe you'd have to treat the infection. All of these things are a result of toxicity in the body. The only way to make it better is to make the body less toxic. I am in full agreement with uccomama that they are a sign of imbalance. I too would let them work until they were done. I would not sit there and twiddle my thumbs if we had them though. I'd be paying REAL close attention to the overall constitution and doing what I could to eliminate the source of the problem.

Ultimately you do have to do what *you* think is best. I would not be content killing them off knowing that there was something deeper going on in my kid. But, you are not me and you may have a very different perspective.
I couldn't have said it better! Thanks FF.
post #23 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by uccomama View Post
I couldn't have said it better! Thanks FF.
For some reason despite mercury being in retrograde I am experiencing clarity of thought
post #24 of 257
I'm really confused about "let them do their work"...what good do they do? Our family discovered we had them a week ago (I also had them as a child) and they, and lice, are a very common occurance in the elementary school age families around here.

There is no way I can let them be; both my child and I were miserable with the symptoms. I also didn't want the risk of infecting others in my house visiting.

I would really like a better understanding of the benefits of not treating a parasite infection. I am afflicted with viruses, bacterial infections, etc. in times of stress and poor diet and lack of exercise...but knowing the cause (or partial cause) does not mean I don't treat the symptoms.
post #25 of 257
I'm certainly not taking the whole vegetarian thing lightly, though I do appreciate the warning because I think soooo many people do. In reality, I am more a TF inclined kind of person, but when getting together with my husband, I went vegetarian because he was. Dumb, I know. But I figured I be all right because I've got a pretty good grasp on health. Nothing but whole foods and organic, no soy. I'm regretting jumping into it so quickly, and having my son jump with me. I am also regretting not standing up to my DP and saying it wasn't working for me sooner... But things are better now, meeting in the middle and whatnot. But I believe the switch did bad things for my son and myself, that I am now having to correct.

For some time now he's been having difficulty and I've chocked it up to growing pains and trying to cope with the changes in diet and stress over a blending family. Worms totally didn't occur to me until just recently. In an information gathering frenzy I stumbled across a paragraph somewhere saying that a low protien, high carb diet can worsen an already present infection. If I can find the article again, I'll post it. But it makes me feel pretty terrible. I too believe that it's all connected... The worms wouldn't be there if there weren't some thing wrong to begin with. We lived on a farm previously, and I'm sure he was exposed to worms playing outside. They probably weren't a big deal and his system would have kicked them, but then I switched his diet and added stress to his little world and he's been battling anxiety, insomnia, restlessness, and immune weakness since then. I've been at a loss as to what his problem has been, have been working on his diet and on the stress and the problems are still there. And after reading I see he's got ALL the symptoms of a pinworm infection, only I've not seen one on him yet... Well, I might have seen one, but I can't be sure.... I think it escaped back in. *shudder* So I'm assuming he does.

So how would I address the whole issue? How to make him entirely healthy again if he's already infested without killing off the suckers. Won't they just keep undoing all my efforts? I am not interested in conventional medicine... Wanting to go the natural, holistic route. Any help from those that have BTDT?
post #26 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by macheetah View Post
I'm really confused about "let them do their work"...what good do they do? Our family discovered we had them a week ago (I also had them as a child) and they, and lice, are a very common occurance in the elementary school age families around here.

There is no way I can let them be; both my child and I were miserable with the symptoms. I also didn't want the risk of infecting others in my house visiting.

I would really like a better understanding of the benefits of not treating a parasite infection. I am afflicted with viruses, bacterial infections, etc. in times of stress and poor diet and lack of exercise...but knowing the cause (or partial cause) does not mean I don't treat the symptoms.
They clean up debris. Most people eat things that aren't meant for consumption or that their bodies simply cannot handle. Other people do really bad things to food that should be healthful.

The idea is (with any infection: bacterial, viral or otherwise) that it's doing a job. IF you interrupt it then you are just opening yourself up to more problems down the road. They aren't your enemy. I believe wholeheartedly that they should be allowed to finish their job. In the end you will be healthier for it. Same idea with a fever. You DON'T suppress it or you just lengthen the time of infection and further deplete the body's reserves.

What this means is that you CANNOT continue dumping things into your body and providing them with more work. Then you won't get rid of them because they will have alot to do. If you fixed the toxicity issue and cleaned things up they would finish clearing things out and move on by themselves. Then what you have is a well nourished body free of toxins AND parasites.
post #27 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrongBeliever View Post
So how would I address the whole issue? How to make him entirely healthy again if he's already infested without killing off the suckers. Won't they just keep undoing all my efforts? I am not interested in conventional medicine... Wanting to go the natural, holistic route. Any help from those that have BTDT?
I would listen more to uccomama on this one.

My understanding is this (and hopefully she'll chime in)
eliminate fiber (parasites in general thrive on it)
increase raw fat (coconut oil, raw butter, avocado etc.)
plenty of raw milk and eggs if you can tolerate them (if there are no allergies)
raw honey
lots and lots of green juices

This has cleared ALOT up for me and dd (who had a parasite issue.)

We don't do conventional meds at all, so that wasn't even an option. However I was shocked at how quickly this worked. I also included meat. It was a complete turnaround in a couple of days for me. Dd took longer, but had many issues beyond the parasite. She did do raw eggs, but also had some cooked.

I was consuming a TON of veggies, and honestly juicing instead of eating them was one of the biggest and most important changes IMO.
post #28 of 257
http://www.appliedozone.com/parasites.html

Look under Parasite Signs, a little down the page.

"High carbohydrate diet, low in protein, and high in alkaline has been found to make parasitic infections worse. Sugar should also be avoided because parasites thrive on it and it is possible you could have candida. This candida or yeast infections create an environment in the colon that equals the environment needed for them to thrive. Foods that lower pH from high alkaline conditions in the colon are apple cider vinegar and cranberry juice."

Moving on from that, to "worms having a job to do"...

We eat an embarrassing amount of bread... Wheat in general. Whole and organic, but still wheat. Could it be compromising our systems? Giving the worms something to do? I have a feeling we might be wheat sensitive, but I'm not quite ready to have that battle with DP. But if it would make my son well enough to ditch the worms, I'll do it.
post #29 of 257
Firefaery I am in complete awe... The more posts of yours I read, the more I want to read!
post #30 of 257
Thanks Firefaery... I had no idea about the fiber thing! Yikes! We do raw coconut oils, and before moving here we did lots of raw dairy. Will have access to raw dairy again shortly, thank all that is good. We do eggs and dairy just fine. I'm just really surprised about how quickly his health(mine too, bleh) declined after moving away from those things. He was such a healthy kid before. I think it must have been the fact that we still let A LOT of junk slip past while eating our good stuff. Now we have eliminated all the junk, but aren't getting the good stuff like pastured meat and free range eggs and raw dairy.

So juicing... Does the fiber in fruits and veggies really make life better for the worms, or is it mainly grain fiber? If you get rid of most of the fiber, how does that effect elimination habits while eating so much meat and dairy? I've always thought fiber was such a healthy thing. Can you bring it back after the worms are gone? I'm totally down for ditching most of the grain, but I'd want to keep my whole veggies and fruit.

If I were to follow the above guidelines, could we institute killing measures after a while or would the worms leave on their own?
post #31 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by macheetah View Post
I'm really confused about "let them do their work"...what good do they do? Our family discovered we had them a week ago (I also had them as a child) and they, and lice, are a very common occurance in the elementary school age families around here.

There is no way I can let them be; both my child and I were miserable with the symptoms. I also didn't want the risk of infecting others in my house visiting.

I would really like a better understanding of the benefits of not treating a parasite infection. I am afflicted with viruses, bacterial infections, etc. in times of stress and poor diet and lack of exercise...but knowing the cause (or partial cause) does not mean I don't treat the symptoms.
Of course, I can totally relate to a mother not wanting their child to be miserable with parasites and wanting to do something to help. The pinworms are there because you are healing. They are cleaning up decaying cells that no longer serve you. Think of them as "guest workers", there to do a job and get out once they have finished. By treating them with medications, natural or not, you are moving them out before they have finished the job they were assigned to do. firefaery had some suggestions for homeopathic remedies which will assist the symptoms without actually preventing the parasites from doing their job. Then there are the nutritional interventions. As I was typing this, FF just posted below what I would do to
on a nutritional level. The raw veggie juices are particularly helpful as is raw lemon juice and unheated honey which will cleanse the body and prevent the need for further parasites.

The same can be said for the viral and bacterial infections you are getting. Whenever, you get sick, it actually means your body is healing. So strange as it may sound, thank your body and honor its process. I know this is going to sound wacky, but the more I learn and contemplate about health and healing, I am realizing that the immune system, in the sense both allopathic and much alternative medicine portrays it, is a mirage. If you accept that pathogens are actually healing and directed by the brain to bring the body back to equilibrium, then the idea that building up the immune system to fight germs just doesn't make sense. So, the stress that you have experienced isn't causing the immune system to tank and therefore you are getting sick, what is occurring in your body is the result of healing after the periods of stress. The stress has resolved and you are now making your body strong again with the help of the bacteria, viruses, fungi and parasites to clean up. Poor diet and lack of exercise will weaken your spirit and allow you to be negatively affected by life events, hence the stress which is also a beneficial sign to get you to act to resolve issues. Going way off topic here, but this is why anti-depressants and tranquilizers can lead to a myriad of health issues, they prevent a person from utilizing the stress to resolve issues and to therefore heal.
post #32 of 257
http://www.fibermenace.com/

if my change in diet ( I was grain free by the way...the ONLY fiber I was getting was from fruit and veggies, same for the kiddos) wasn't enough to convince me, this book was.

I still don't think I'd kill them off. Even if you remove the fiber, that wasn't necessarily the only issue. If you've been eating lots of junk, then there's junk to clean out! I'd still let them run their course, personally. They will go on their own once they are done. Again, uccomama who has been doing this for ALOT longer probably has more valuable input.

It was painful for me to lose the whole fruit and veggies too. But like I said, I figured I would at least try it and see what happened. What happened was that I got my life back. I'm sticking to the juice for awhile.

For years I was vegan (and not the junk food kind either, I was a strict eat to live gal...one grain a day, two pounds of veggies, one pound of fruit, a cup of beans, low-ish fat, no sugar) I had a brief period with the SCD for gut damage and then I was raw vegan for years after that...no grains, no sugar, nothing cooked or refined. I had a GREAT diet (I thought), except I wasn't at optimal health. After a couple of years of this uccomama made a suggestion that perhaps I should add some raw milk and eggs and ditch the fiber. I haven't looked back. As I posted before many times, if my health were to start declining I'd think differently. This is the best I've felt in a LONG time.

I've been doing this since early November. The changes are noticable and not only to me.
post #33 of 257
double post!
post #34 of 257
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post #35 of 257
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post #36 of 257
::

very interesting about not "treating" pinworms, makes a lot of sense.

fiber.....

ds now 4 1/2, goes only every 2-3 days and this is an improvement..
o.k. he also has food allergies, gluten intolerent etc; but I had been loading him with fiber trying to "help his constipation" and nothing worked. Then I backed down and .....things started to improve, while he is still not going every day at least when he does it is normal don't want to tmi.....
It is challenging to toally cut out all fiber and sugars like fruit etc; and he doesn't like green drinks and veggie juice.
any ideas???
I have suspected worms but I wouldn't do meds anyway, would try to strengthen his immune system.
what about pro biotics? I would thingk that a good pro-biotic would be essential to take for worms. is homemade yogurt strong enough?
post #37 of 257

Recurrent Pinworm

I think my dd may have pinworm for the 3rd time. I haven't actually seen a worm yet, but all her symptoms really point that way. The first two times were treated with Vermox. I have read in this thread about not treating it, so I am thinking about it. However, I'm not sure I really understand exactly what job they are doing for her. So they are eating toxins? Does this mean her liver and/or kidneys have a problem with clearing toxins? If so, I would think pinworms would be more prevalent in adults with many more years of junk food/substance abuse. Does someone have a link or a book to support the 'eating toxins' idea?

Does anyone have a story about not treating? How long did it take for the worms to clear? Do the symptoms just keep getting worse until they all die? Does immunity develop if the immune system gets rid of them on its own?

My dd is really miserable. She's been having alternating diarrhea and constipation. She has bad itching, her sleep has been very disrupted, and her behavior is out of control. Also, she has started to wet the bed after a year of having night dryness. I try to clean everything like crazy to kill those pesky eggs. I am also trying to get her to eat some anti-pinworm foods, but she is one tough customer when it comes to food she doesn't like...garlic, for instance. Her diet is not really that bad. It is pretty balanced with a lot of organic food and not too much junk. The only fiber she eats is fruit. Should I cut that out? Also, I give her cod liver oil.

Does anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks in advance.
post #38 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinuviel_k View Post
Have you ever had them? Really and acutely had them? Its not exactly a picnic. I had pin worms for over six months as a small child. I was too embarrassed to tell my mom what was going on. It was excruciating. I itched like I never have before or since, and since the itch was inside my anus there was nothing I could do about it. I tried putting creams on the outside of my bottom, inserting them inside. I tried manually removing the worms (sorry, TMI), forcing bowl movements, taking hot baths: nothing relieved the horrible, horrible itching and the feeling of things squirming around in there. I spend hours in tears of panic and discomfort, lost maybe 2-3 hours of sleep every night or more. It was horrible, absolutely torturous for me.

My daughter, 4 years old, came down with a case of them this winter. She was very wakeful for three nights, unusually so. One night she came out of bed crying with an expression of pure misery on her face. I knew that look: I remembered it well. When I checked her bottom later that night after a warm bath: sure enough: pinworms.

I would never, ever not treat pinworms in some way or another. My experience was just too horrible. How can losing nutrients to the worms, losing three hours of sleep every night, and spending hours every night in an elevated state of discomfort and panic be beneficial to someone trying to heal?
I could not agree with you more. I suffered with pinworms when I was around the age of 7/8. I was also too terrified to tell my mom (I had NO idea why worms were coming out of my bottom) about the problem. The itching was beyond horrible, I was constantly twitching and moving to lessen the affect and I would also lay awake for hours and hours on end.

While I usually tend to take the natural route, I would not hesitate for one second if my children acquired these.

I've read posts on this thread and am still confused as to the people saying to leave the pinworms because they are 'there for a reason' and are 'doing a job'.

Pinworms are in your body because something you did caused them to be in your body (i.e getting eggs on your hands and putting your hands in your mouth). Your body didn't produce them to help with some underlying problem.

Also, they do no job whatsoever. They don't 'clean up' anything. They are parasites living, and thriving, off of our bodies.

There are absolutely no benefits to pinworms in humans. They can actually cause serious problems when they are found in other areas of the body (vagina, urinary tract, etc.)

All-in-all, I agree that they are a lot like lice - you get them from an outside source, they live off of your body, they're there for no beneficial reason, etc.

Would you leave lice alone if you were to get that?
post #39 of 257
in regards to these "guest workers" and their benign nature. My daughter was screaming in pain for many nights because of them. They did nerve damage to my daughter, causing so much pain that she was on adult doses of oxycodone and valium for over 2 weeks, and amitryptiline for an additional 6 weeks for the neuropathy (all diagnosed and prescribed by her MDs, approved by her ND.) The ND gave us some other stuff to help treat the intestines, but frankly, it was such a traumatic time, I've forgotten what.

Pinworms are not to be taken lightly, imo. Yes, treat their environment. But there are much more benign ways to do so than to leave these parasites hanging around. Granted, my dd's reaction was uncommon, but not unheard of. And yes, we got a second, third, and fourth opinion.
post #40 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAHDS View Post

Pinworms are in your body because something you did caused them to be in your body (i.e getting eggs on your hands and putting your hands in your mouth). Your body didn't produce them to help with some underlying problem.

Also, they do no job whatsoever. They don't 'clean up' anything. They are parasites living, and thriving, off of our bodies.

There are absolutely no benefits to pinworms in humans. They can actually cause serious problems when they are found in other areas of the body (vagina, urinary tract, etc.)
Yes you put them there....but you also out things there for them to thrive off of. Your body didn't produce them, but your body has an environment that allowed them to thrive. They clean up waste. If it was a clean environment they would have nothing to do.

Do what is right for your family. Noone here is saying do something that you are uncomfortable with. This is my perspective and it has served me and my family well. We look for health and balance. And we find it.

The point I'm making is that there are things you can do NOW to prevent that environment from being a happy one for parasites. There are things you can do now so that if you encounter one they won't have any reason to stick around.

I will reiterate what I already said. IF you are unwilling to do the work, then of course you should treat them. I never said that everyone should just leave them be. All I said is that there is another option should you be willing to explore it.
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