The Pinworm Thread - Page 3

[jassyp101]

BUMP

Great information in here!

[moondiapers]

Originally Posted by Ginny-mommy

I think my dd may have pinworm for the 3rd time. I haven't actually seen a worm yet, but all her symptoms really point that way. The first two times were treated with Vermox. I have read in this thread about not treating it, so I am thinking about it. However, I'm not sure I really understand exactly what job they are doing for her. So they are eating toxins? Does this mean her liver and/or kidneys have a problem with clearing toxins? If so, I would think pinworms would be more prevalent in adults with many more years of junk food/substance abuse. Does someone have a link or a book to support the 'eating toxins' idea?

Does anyone have a story about not treating? How long did it take for the worms to clear? Do the symptoms just keep getting worse until they all die? Does immunity develop if the immune system gets rid of them on its own?

My dd is really miserable. She's been having alternating diarrhea and constipation. She has bad itching, her sleep has been very disrupted, and her behavior is out of control. Also, she has started to wet the bed after a year of having night dryness. I try to clean everything like crazy to kill those pesky eggs. I am also trying to get her to eat some anti-pinworm foods, but she is one tough customer when it comes to food she doesn't like...garlic, for instance. Her diet is not really that bad. It is pretty balanced with a lot of organic food and not too much junk. The only fiber she eats is fruit. Should I cut that out? Also, I give her cod liver oil.

Does anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Pinworms have a 10 day life cycle. If you can quit reinfecting yourselves they'll go away. So you have to remove the eggs from your home, keep bottoms COVERED, change and launder undies OFTEN, wash hands constantly, and keep hands out of mouths.

[Ginny-mommy]

Originally Posted by moondiapers

Pinworms have a 10 day life cycle. If you can quit reinfecting yourselves they'll go away. So you have to remove the eggs from your home, keep bottoms COVERED, change and launder undies OFTEN, wash hands constantly, and keep hands out of mouths.

Thanks for the tips. The first and second infections were likely related because they occurred at a close interval. However, it has been 5 months since the last time. Therefore, I think this is a new infection. From what I've read the eggs can only last up to 3 weeks in the right conditions.

My ds now has it too (saw worm in diaper) and we have treated the whole family with Vermox. I am a cleaning maniac now. I was also before, but obviously not enough of one. I am very disturbed by dd's inclination to pick them up. Obviously something is not right with her diet. I am working hard on improving it. It is very frustrating. I am feeling very crazy right now.

[girlsmamma2]

this is the first time for me (actually dd) to encounter this. I think my 3 yo may have them, she has complained of a tummy ache day and night for weeks now and has had a couple night wakings but nothing really chronic yet. she says her tummy hurts worse at night and she got sick in her sleep a couple times and it's not a virus, the second time was just the other night, which prompted me to look for more of a cause. It seems she's more irratible during the day and she also seems more tired. I did the tape test and at night before bed and bath I will check her bottom. I got a couple things but I'm not sure if they are eggs? Some were small and white but not moving, others looked more oval and light tanish. she has also been itching her vaginal area for some time now but I just attributed it to normal development until she got sick for no reason and complains of this constant tummy ache. I haven't seen anything moving yet but does this mean it's in the early stages? I also check her in the morning before she pees and I lifted her undies last night to see if I could see anything after a couple hours sleep. I feel so upset by this and also like I don't know what in the world I'm looking for. But it seems from what I've read that this could be the only thing.

The rest of us don't have symptoms yet (which is strange because I've got two girls using the same bathroom, bedroom etc) and a little 22 mo who is into everything. I'm also 12 weeks pregnant and freaking out quite a bit.

Do I take the tape I have into the docs with her or wait a bit more? any help is much appreciated!

[jessjgh1]

bump....

What about for the breastfed baby, younger babes? any changes in treatment?

Jessica

[kayjayjay]

Well, here's another bump, and a little update from us. DD3 had them again and it's pretty awful. This is definitely a new infection, and I'm just really wishing I knew where they were coming from. I believe that she's the one that keeps getting them because she's at that age of putting everything including her fingers in her mouth.

While I understand the reasoning of just leaving them to go on their own, this time I just couldn't, DD was so miserable and no one in the family was getting any sleep. I gave DD the otc pinworm med and they were gone within the day. Now I need to decide what to do next. Other than going into crazy cleaning gross-out mode which I've already done.

Can we have a discussion about how to create an environment inside the body that doesn't encourage them? I know we should avoid sugar and white flour. I also think I read somewhere that spicy diets discourage parasites, but I can't get the 3yo to eat chilies for some reason . What else can I feed her that isn't toxic? I do have her on probiotics.

[Panserbjorne]

I can offer what we have done:

raw green juices. For kids I blend them with fruit and fat.
raw egg custards
plenty of fat
we added meat and that made a big difference for us.
avocados and lots of them!
coconut oil, coconut cream, coconut water
unheated honey
we do soaked nuts on occasion too....nut creams over fruit for treats, things like that.
banana cream pie! YUM.
sushi
For kids especially the more fat the better!
basically I just give them their choice of fabulous food that is nourishing, in as natural a state as possible, and tasty. Feeding them this way gives them needed nutrients as well as creates a healthy environment.

My kids are actually pretty happy to be eating this way. I also notice that they require far LESS food than once they did.

[Metasequoia]

Hey Firefaery, I've been trying to PM you, could ya make a little space? TY.

[kayjayjay]

firefaery, is this what is considered a traditional foods diet or a variation of it? My kids actually love most of the things you listed. I don't have a juicer, but I'm thinking I might look into getting one.

DD2 and DD3 have been eating a LOT of fruit lately. The two of them in particular seem to crave sweets, and so I buy apples and oranges and strawberries for them to snack on. I'm trying to figure out what to feed them for snacks if we phase out the fruit. They eat lots of raw nuts, too, but I don't soak them.

Ah, I need to make a shopping list and do some research, but I have to get off the computer right now and go help the crying baby.

:

[moondiapers]

Originally Posted by kayjayjay

Well, here's another bump, and a little update from us. DD3 had them again and it's pretty awful. This is definitely a new infection, and I'm just really wishing I knew where they were coming from. I believe that she's the one that keeps getting them because she's at that age of putting everything including her fingers in her mouth.

While I understand the reasoning of just leaving them to go on their own, this time I just couldn't, DD was so miserable and no one in the family was getting any sleep. I gave DD the otc pinworm med and they were gone within the day. Now I need to decide what to do next. Other than going into crazy cleaning gross-out mode which I've already done.

Can we have a discussion about how to create an environment inside the body that doesn't encourage them? I know we should avoid sugar and white flour. I also think I read somewhere that spicy diets discourage parasites, but I can't get the 3yo to eat chilies for some reason . What else can I feed her that isn't toxic? I do have her on probiotics.

If one person has them, you all have them. Treat the whole family, you may be reinfecting eachother. Many people get them and are symptom free. They came through my daycare, my whole family got them, I was the only person with symptoms. Everyone else got the nighttime booty check. They had them too, they just hadn't noticed.

[Ginny-mommy]

Originally Posted by moondiapers

If one person has them, you all have them. Treat the whole family, you may be reinfecting eachother. Many people get them and are symptom free. They came through my daycare, my whole family got them, I was the only person with symptoms. Everyone else got the nighttime booty check. They had them too, they just hadn't noticed.

I really agree with this. I am now convinced that my ds, who was 8 months at time of dd's 2nd infection, picked it up then and I didn't realize it. I think he must be the one who reinfected dd this time. He was the only one who wasn't treated because he was too young. We all co-sleep so it makes sense that he would catch it. I also believe it is responsible for ds's anemia that was recently diagnosed.

Also, I would like to add a few things about treating pinworm that I have learned from my research.

Applying zinc oxide to the anal area at night and even throughout the day can be very helpful.

If you are going to medically treat it (which I now wholeheartedly support), the prescription med Vermox (mebendazole) in at least two doses is the most effective treatment. The OTC stuff (pyrantel pamoate) is not as effective. Pediatricians will often prescribe Vermox over the phone when you describe the symptoms.

Improving the diet and adding anti-worm foods is great to help, but will not eliminate these things very quickly. We have taken out sugar/refined flour products and eliminated all fruit except pineapples and figs (worms don't like them). Garlic, onion, carrots, and pumpkin seeds are also great anti-worm foods.

Reducing the humidity in your home may also help to kill the eggs more quickly. I have read that humidity under 50 is good, but the lower the better. Of course, this can lead to dry skin, but it is worth it, IMO. Also, high heat can kill them. One site said to super-heat your home to 95 degrees for 24 hours. Also, always open your curtains or blinds in the day. The eggs don't like the sunshine. It is also good to air out your home by opening windows regularly.

Humans have been dealing with pinworms for at least 10,000 years. Hunter-gatherers had the infection less frequently because of the anti-worm foods in their diet and their living conditions. They lived in smaller groups with more fresh air/sun than the agriculturalists.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-132081179.html

[mombh]

I don't know about pinworms not surviving in the heat. We live in South Florida....very hot here almost all year round and pinworms are rampant here.
Almost all places have a/c so indoors is not humid....
I just don't see that as a factor imho, I really think that having the right or "wrong" internal invitoment is what makes a difference. I know of families who always seem to be "catching " them and some families just don't. Even at school, every so often we get a note sent home warning of a reported case etc; some kids will just get them and they are good hosts and some not .
I think there is a similarity to lice ( I may be wrong its just my theory)
lice also loooove the weather conditions down here and they do check at school pretty often. Over the years my kids never got lice once till we spent last summer overseas and our diet was not great etc; everyone got lice except for dh( I had them, was physically close with him.....) and one ds they just never got them, and I checked daily
Once home we got rid of them pretty quick except for one ds who has digestion issues/allergies etc; took a few weeks with him.

[leila1213]

Great link, Ginny-Mommy! mombh, if you read it, it talks about pinworms not being able to survive in cold climates. Hot ones are fine for them. What Ginny-Mommy was referring to was temporarily superheating an otherwise cool indoor environment. Plus, as you said, indoors are air conditioned, so it's not the same as living outdoors in a warm climate. And the AC might reduce humidity, but in S Florida as well as where I live (Tampa Bay) I really doubt that we could ever get the humidity below 50%. I could be wrong. Anyway, all this to advise everyone to read the link. It doesn't answer all our questions, but it helped me have a little better understanding/awareness of the conditions needed to have a less pinworm-friendly environment.

[camille76]

KAYJAYJAY...

are you treating the whole household, including adults? ...'cause lemme tell ya, I was horrified to discover that "I" had pinworms! Pinworms can also be airborne & inhaled. (yuck!)

After we had the problem 2x here, I started to be paranoid that I had them too. I figured I didn't because my bottom wasn't itchy. Every once in a while, I'd feel a slight, slight twinge in my bottom... hardly even noticeable... but you know how when you think there's a spider on you, you keep feeling it even though it's not there? Well, I decided to take a peek in the mirror one day (don't even try & picture it,, I'm sure I looked ridiculous!) when I felt the tiny little twinge on my bottom, and sure enough, there was a little worm crawling around!
:

so, try treating everyone, if you haven't already.

[kayjayjay]

Well, while I'm aware that it's possible more family members might have them, I don't plan on treating anyone with meds that isn't showing symptoms. I didn't want to give toxic meds to anyone in the first place, but I gave them to DD3 because her symptoms were so disruptive that it made sense. I have a 14mo baby and she's still nursing so neither of us can take them anyway.

I do plan on "treating" the whole family naturally, through diet and whatever herbs I can find that discourage them, and really good hygiene. I know the eggs can become airborne, and I'm keeping drapes open wiping everything down and washing sheets and towels and etc. I'm sure that this is a new infection, though, because we've been worm free for about a year now. I'm certain that these little things are everywhere and that my kids can get them anywhere they hang out with other kids/people.

DH and I already eat a lot of garlic and really spicy foods, but beyond that I'm having a hard time finding good info on natural treatments. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there.

I have raw pumpkin seeds, but beyond that I'm just befuddled...

[camille76]

Originally Posted by kayjayjay

Well, while I'm aware that it's possible more family members might have them, I don't plan on treating anyone with meds that isn't showing symptoms. I didn't want to give toxic meds to anyone in the first place, but I gave them to DD3 because her symptoms were so disruptive that it made sense. I have a 14mo baby and she's still nursing so neither of us can take them anyway.

I totally understand not wanting to treat everyone if it's not necessary. I just also know how stressful it is to try and worry about there being some worm eggs laying around, washing all the sheets, clothes, and everything else that goes along with trying to eliminate the problem. Then again, the meds only kill the worms and not the eggs, so who knows if people are at different stages.

I am also nursing and thought initially I couldn't take the meds, but I looked around online and it is said to be safe to take the pinworm medication. It even said so on Dr. Sears' website, on his "safe meds while breastfeeding page... and even though he is a doctor, he is more on the natural side comparatively speaking. link

I'm not trying to cram the med down your throat ...I just wanted you know it's said to be safe while BFing if you reach your wit's end with these little buggers. I know I have!

[Kailey's mom]

Great thread btw. I don't know if I've ever had them, dd, or dp. But I'd like to know for future reference (in laymens terms LOL) what are the natural treatments, for instance, if dd had them now, what exactly do I give her to get rid of them? She is allergic to milk and beef (just got skin testing done) thanks so much!!

[LisainCalifornia]

Originally Posted by tinuviel_k

Have you ever had them? Really and acutely had them? Its not exactly a picnic. I had pin worms for over six months as a small child. I was too embarrassed to tell my mom what was going on. It was excruciating. I itched like I never have before or since, and since the itch was inside my anus there was nothing I could do about it. I tried putting creams on the outside of my bottom, inserting them inside. I tried manually removing the worms (sorry, TMI), forcing bowl movements, taking hot baths: nothing relieved the horrible, horrible itching and the feeling of things squirming around in there. I spend hours in tears of panic and discomfort, lost maybe 2-3 hours of sleep every night or more. It was horrible, absolutely torturous for me.

My daughter, 4 years old, came down with a case of them this winter. She was very wakeful for three nights, unusually so. One night she came out of bed crying with an expression of pure misery on her face. I knew that look: I remembered it well. When I checked her bottom later that night after a warm bath: sure enough: pinworms.

I would never, ever not treat pinworms in some way or another. My experience was just too horrible. How can losing nutrients to the worms, losing three hours of sleep every night, and spending hours every night in an elevated state of discomfort and panic be beneficial to someone trying to heal?

I agree with you 100% and had exactly the same miserable experience as a child. It was HORRIBLE to suffer through--suffer being the important emphasis here. I had it starting at about 7 years old, and they stayed with me until I took medication for them at around 9. I was too embarrassed to tell my parents that I was itching so terribly in my bottom, so I just suffered with it, often crying for hours at night over it. It wasn't until I was around 9 and a friend told me that SHE had them that I looked into the toilet after going to the bathroom. I was horrified to see worms in there--and there were tons of them.

I told my mom, who was also so grossed out, and she took me to the doctor. The medication worked very well at first, but could not cure them completely. My mom got mad when I would tell her a few months later they were back, and said it was because I was dirty or had dirty hands. I am one of the cleanest people I know--and felt so shamed by this. Now that I have read more about it, I suspect that the eggs were re-infecting me in my sheets or around my room.

Not treating this is not an option for any child of mine. It is a misery to live with (like living with a head full of lice) and unless you have been through it is hard to know just how bad it is.

[LisainCalifornia]

One other issue is that in girls they can lose there way and crawl up the vagina, causing pain and problems. This happened to me too as a child. I use to try to force myself to go to sleep early, because when I would stay up and watch TV later I would suffer with that terrible itching not only around the back, but sometimes severe pain around my vaginal area. It is a misery!

[kayjayjay]

I just want to say I don't intend to let anyone suffer and I'm certainly not angry with my kids for getting pinworms. I gave meds to the kids when I thought they were needed and they aren't afraid to tell me if they think they have them or if they're uncomfortable. I don't think we have them because we're dirty or gross, I think they are easy to get and easy to re-infect yourself with and hard to get rid of.

I'm talking about ways of treating them that are more natural than taking medication that kills off so much of the beneficial gut flora. I'm talking about finding a balance and creating a healthy system that doesn't help them thrive. I'm talking about seeing an opportunity to make changes both in our diet and our daily routines that keep out the worms and also keep us healthy.

I feel like if I just give everyone meds we'll go through this endless cycle of everyone taking the meds every two weeks and all of the side effects of that when it's nearly impossible to avoid the eggs and reinfection is almost certain no matter what I do.

I don't have the answers, I'm just interested in a discussion that isn't only about treating everyone, don't miss anyone, don't consider not treating, treat with the strongest meds possible, etc.