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The Pinworm Thread - Page 5

post #81 of 257
I have been reading this thread the last few days for no other reason than it being interesting and wouldn't you know...to my HORROR I saw a pinworm on my sons anus tonight after he was whining about his "butt butt." OMG, the horror. I am completely GROSSED out. The worst part....my anus has been itchy the last few days as well and I just kept shrugging it off. NOT treating is NOT an option for us so I just went out and bought Pin X and we all just took a dose. Puke.

I hope the medicine works, but I know tomorrow I'll be washing sheets and clothes and disinfecting everything else!!
post #82 of 257
Does anyone know WHAT kills pinworm eggs on surfaces? I keep reading that Lysol does not kill them, and I hate Lysol and would never use that anyways, but what DOES kill them? Should I bleach my whole house or what?? Thanks!
post #83 of 257
deleted
post #84 of 257
Have you gone to a HCP? The meds they give you work because the first dose kills the adults, and then the second dose kills their eggs. I don't know why the OP in this thread says the medicine doesn't kill all the worms, because it does...?

Anyway, good luck. This must be really traumatic for everyone in your house. :
post #85 of 257
Food Grade diatomaceous earth works. Put it in your morning smoothies. It's tasteless. I'd do it for a couple of weeks.
post #86 of 257
I think I have these, and at least one dd too, and I am so grossed out. I just called my doc's nurse and she's going to call back. Do I need to wait until we've all started treatment to start laundering everything? Ew. I feel so pukey.

I have oil of oregano. Should we start taking that?
post #87 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaWindmill View Post
Have you gone to a HCP? The meds they give you work because the first dose kills the adults, and then the second dose kills their eggs. I don't know why the OP in this thread says the medicine doesn't kill all the worms, because it does...?
The meds only kill the worms, they do not kill the eggs. Reinfection is very likely, so since the worms have a 2-week life cycle, a second dose is taken to kill any worms that were ingested as eggs when the first dose was taken. I hope that makes sense.

The hardest thing about these, imo, is that it's nearly impossible to keep little ones from re-infecting themselves, because they scratch the itchy bottom and then put fingers in their mouths. If you can address that, by keeping pants on your kids and washing first thing in the morning and such, then that makes it much more likely you will get rid of them with two treatments. Cleaning floors, washing towels and sheets, and the like, are also part of this. Just try to think where the eggs might be.

I haven't tried the diatomaceous earth, but it sounds very promising to me. If we get them again I will certainly try it.

Good luck, everyone.
post #88 of 257

live worms 3 days after Vermox

DS (3.5yo) had pinworms in his poo Sunday pm. We immediately started Cina homeopathic, raw garlic (which he took a few times but won't take now), pumpkin seeds (which he doesn't like), no simple carbs and began all the cleaning and washing required.

Monday night we all took Vermox. He has never taken any nonhomeopathic medicine before this, nor have I in the last 5 years, so you can probably imagine my desperation in resorting to this med. However, as meds go, it sounded pretty benign.

The medication insert said it could take up to 3 days to kill the adult worms. seven hours short of 3 days, he still has live worms in his poo. The doc says to wait 4 more days and recommended a different homeopathic.

How many days after Vermox did you still have live adult worms?

I have been giving him prunes to keep stools regular - could I have wiped out the Vermox too quickly?

I've read about heating house to 95 to kill the eggs, but how does this work if they live in the body at temps higher than that? Does is make them hatch and then die?

BTW, my son eats no grains, just meat, veggies, eggs, fruit for the most part. He had had some sugar recently in the past few weeks (this was very new for him), so I'm thinking that opened his immune system to the pinworms.

Thanks for any suggestions/info.

Oh and by the way, I've been googling for hours to find out the answers to my questions about Vermox and why we're still seeing live worms, but just can't find any specifics.
post #89 of 257
I had pin worms as a child, and it was awful. I do not believe they are helpful in anyway, IMO.
post #90 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayjayjay View Post
The meds only kill the worms, they do not kill the eggs. Reinfection is very likely, so since the worms have a 2-week life cycle, a second dose is taken to kill any worms that were ingested as eggs when the first dose was taken. I hope that makes sense.

The hardest thing about these, imo, is that it's nearly impossible to keep little ones from re-infecting themselves, because they scratch the itchy bottom and then put fingers in their mouths. If you can address that, by keeping pants on your kids and washing first thing in the morning and such, then that makes it much more likely you will get rid of them with two treatments. Cleaning floors, washing towels and sheets, and the like, are also part of this. Just try to think where the eggs might be.

I haven't tried the diatomaceous earth, but it sounds very promising to me. If we get them again I will certainly try it.

Good luck, everyone.
Let me rephrase - the second dose kills the now-hatched juvenile worms before they can lay eggs.
post #91 of 257
About parasites and health:

I think that some people are misunderstanding some things about the relationship of these two things.

I will use the analogy of fleas on dogs.

A dog which is less healthy may well carry a heavier flea load than another dog (even in the same household, same food, same routines) which is less healthy for whatever reason. This is pretty common knowledge.

But the fleas are not sucking toxins out of the dog's bloodstream, they are feeding upon the dog's actual blood, thereby further weakening the health of the dog. Enough fleas will actually kill an animal.

My dog has no fleas (I do not use any flea products). But if I were to take him to an area which was infested with fleas, he would undoubtedly come home with some fleas hitching a ride, regardless of his diet and his health. Then I would have to take steps to eradicate them.

The same goes for humans and parasites such as pinworms. They do not do a job, they are not there to cleanse toxins and then mysteriously vanish. If your child has never had them it is not an indication of superior health, it means that they never got any pinworm eggs in their mouth.

I think some of this confusion just may be because of the fact that in very extreme circumstances fly maggots are used to trim the edges of necrotic or infected wounds. I don't know whether this is ever used in humans, but in any case yes, in that case it is a 'worm' which is 'doing a job'.

But that is a closely monitored situation. That is not a wild infection, nor are wild fly larvae used. And it is not a parasitic issue at all.
post #92 of 257
but you realize that there are a large number of holistic vets that would not treat for fleas, but instead alter the nutrient intake of the animal and use things to optimize utilization of said nutrients, right? Just like with mosquitoes who won't feed on a person who is adequately nourished upping certain nutrients in the animals diet will discourage the fleas and leave them looking for alternate "hosts."
post #93 of 257
Where in the world are people getting the idea that mosquitoes avoid healthy people?
post #94 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaWindmill View Post
Where in the world are people getting the idea that mosquitoes avoid healthy people?
B-1 (thiamine) gives out an odor through the skin that repels mosquitoes, black flies and gnats. It is a nutrient that is rapidly used up in stress and that most people don't get enough of anyway. Anyone that has an adrenal, thyroid or hypothalamus issue will be especially depleted. It can also be rapidly depleted with alcoholism and is often not present in adequate amounts in cases of mental illness. I came across this years ago and even people IRL comment because me and my kids don't get bitten while everyone around us does. It's a useful bit of info. Feel free to ignore it.

http://www.scrumptiouslyrealnutritio...mins/vb1.shtml
http://www.answers.com/topic/thiamine
http://naturalmedicine.suite101.com/...mosquito_bites
http://www.highland-midge.co.uk/high...ge-science.htm
http://www.drugs.com/ppa/thiamin-hydrochloride-b1.html
http://www.chemeurope.com/lexikon/e/Thiamine/

Many people claim it hasn't been "clinically proven" but it's rare that vitamin therapy ever is for obvious reasons. There is a good amount of anecdotal evidence. The proof in in the pudding. You can keep your repellent, I'll keep my nutrients.

As with most anything proper nourishment can protect against so much.
post #95 of 257
My holistic MD told me the same thing, and it works! I was shocked. I used to get eaten alive and for the past few years I haven't been touched though I am out all the time. I am often skeptical of things like this, but I'm glad I tried it.
post #96 of 257
Joel V. Weinstock, M.D.
Professor of Medicine
Immunology
Tufts University, School of Graduate Biomedical Sciences

The major hypothesis of one of our projects is that modern day lack of exposure to intestinal helminths is an important factor contributing to the growth of IBD. It is believed that childhood exposure to helminths modulates the mucosal immune system, which affords this protection."
http://www.tufts.edu/sackler/immunol...ock/index.html

Basically, the "parasites" are beneficial.

"These worms, or helminths, have a paradoxical effect on the host. Rather than induce inflammation, which is the body’s typical response to invasion, the intruders calm the host immune system."

He references this notion “the hygiene hypothesis”: as improved hygiene reduced exposure to certain infectious agents, the immune system began malfunctioning.

If eliminating worms led to an increase in disease, could re-introducing worms actually treat these diseases? In mice, the answer was yes. Worms were used to “inoculate” against mouse asthma, Type 1 diabetes, multiple sclerosis and I.B.D.

And this is PROFOUND:
In 2005, he published results from two human studies. After ingesting 2,500 microscopic T. suis eggs at 3-week intervals for 24 weeks, 23 of 29 Crohn’s patients responded positively.(Crohn’s disease belongs to the I.B.D. family, which also includes ulcerative colitis.)

Twenty-one went into complete remission. In the second study, 13 of 30 ulcerative colitis patients improved compared with 4 in the 24-person placebo group.


Scientists around the world are intrigued. Several large studies are under way. Trials using T. suis eggs on patients with multiple sclerosis, Crohn’s and hay fever are beginning in the United States, Australia and Denmark, respectively. In Germany, scientists are planning studies on asthma and food allergies. Other European scientists, meanwhile, plan to replicate many of these experiments with Necator americanus, a human hookworm.

Bottom line: You are not just your genetic self. You are a community of interacting organisms. This You ecosystem includes the bacteria that outnumber your genetic cells by 10 to 1, various fungi, viruses and just maybe a few parasites as well. Disturb or remove any key player, and the whole system can come unbalanced.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/ma...l?ref=magazine

Here are other bioimmunological researchers investigating these concerns. http://www.wchstv.com/newsroom/healt...ife/1854.shtml

Links to additional research abstracts regarding intestinal health of helminth presence. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17343085?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez. Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.P ubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles& logdbfrom=pubmed

Nature Clinical Practice Gastroenterology & Hepatology: http://www.nature.com/ncpgasthep/jou...sthep0087.html

SUMMARY:
There is now substantial human epidemiological data and several animal studies supporting the hypothesis that helminths protect the host from immunological disease.

(source, British Medical Journal. -you have to register on the site to read the study which includes about 56 references; registration is free): http://gut.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/53/1/7


Pat

post #97 of 257
I would be all for anything that is safe and provides relief for Crohn's patients. I feel really bad for people with Crohn's.
post #98 of 257

Ok, now that I am thinking about worms and tushies...

I have a vague memory of pooping out a long brown worm during harvest one year (I would guess harvest...I remember the stubble around me). I picked it up and showed it to my mom (which just makes me want to go wash my hands again and shudder uncontrollably, nearly 40 years later). She sort of freaked out, had me put it in a mason jar and told dad she was taking me to the doctor. (Probably why I remember it...you don't stop harvest for ANYTHING usually).

I can't remember anything past that...don't remember taking medicine or anything, although I might have, just that mom came back and told me that she was proud of me for showing it to her and to always tell her if weird things like that happen.

Anybody have a clue what the heck that thing was? I remember it being bigger than an earthworm and sort of poop color. lol. I lived on a farm, but I think I was old enough that we didn't have livestock anymore.
post #99 of 257
What an interesting thread... I never realized that there could be so much to disagree on concerning pinworms.

For those who believe that the worms can be beneficial (I believe you are probably right) how do you recommend people deal with the extreme discomfort they can cause? I rarely medicate my kids for anything, but I bought pin-x the last time we went through this because I was so desperate.

I really hate giving them the med because I just don't know what else it's killing in their bodies, but wow, we just couldn't deal with it.

JenniferZ, could it have been a roundworm? Just guessing.
post #100 of 257
Haven't been there; and with children, I'd probably be more aggressive with comfort measures than with myself. It is easier for adults to choose to tolerate something, perhaps.

Topical xylocaine, lavender essential oil, coconut oil, butter, other oil based lubrication for comfort, witch hazel, apple cider vinegar, Epsom salt baths, oatmeal baths, apis cream, calendula ointment, Aloe Vera mixed with olive oil, tea tree oil, cornstarch, baking soda paste, would be my best bets.

Perhaps, even some topical benedryl for intense itching.

Classical homeopathy.


Pat
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