Why not use an ND or DO? - Page 4

[TanyaS]

Originally Posted by lisa49

Maybe in the 7 years since I've been gone from Arkansas, there has been a huge growth in the availability of natural healthcare providers. I wouldn't know.

There hasn't. I live outside of Little Rock. The last time I searched for a holistic doctor, the only listing in my area was a veterinarian.

[KilgoreTrout]

Hi everyone

I just stumbled across this while browsing the web, and I was attracted to this thread.

I am a 4th year DO med student about to graduate and begin a residency in Pediatrics.

Your average DO is going to be clinically indistinguishable from an MD. The education and philosophies have essentially merged. However, I do feel that we are taught to be a little more receptive and open-minded to the beliefs of our patients. I also like to think that as a group, we have a gentler, more sensitive bedside manner. And I can certainly say that alternative medical approaches were VERY popular with my classmates. Many came from acupuncture and chiropractic backgrounds. We even had an alternative medicine fair each year.

I would be happy to answer any questions regarding Osteopathic education or philosophy.

[Deborah]

Hi KilgoreTrout,

Since this is the vaccine forum, I'll ask this:

What did you learn about vaccines in your medical courses? How much time did you spend on the topic?

[maxwill129]

DH and I decided we wanted to have a doctor for us and the kids in case something happened where we NEEDED an MD, and so we could have one we could trust. We want to find that doctor now, to establish a good relationship with and who will get to know our family well. This is why we DO well child visits...

[KilgoreTrout]

Originally Posted by Deborah

Hi KilgoreTrout,

Since this is the vaccine forum, I'll ask this:

What did you learn about vaccines in your medical courses? How much time did you spend on the topic?

Hi Deborah

To answer your question, we spent a significant amount of time in the lecture component of my pre-clinical years of medical school covering vaccines. We had a longitudinal pediatrics course that ran through all of my second year, and immunizations were a large part of that. We would also cover relevant vaccination topics when they pertained to the 'system' we were covering at the time - i.e., during the gastrointestinal system module, we covered the Hep B and rotavirus vaccines, for example.

It is hard to put a time value on our vaccination education. My school didn't break down the curriculum into hours, so I couldn't really tell you.

One anecdote that I remember very well was a lecture that the university chair of pediatrics gave our class. She told us about her residency training back in the late 70's. In the winter, the hospital pediatrics wards would be overflowing with kids sick with bacteremia, meningitis, and pneumonia from Haemophilus influenzae. Unfortunately, a high number of kids died from this. Of course, most of you know that the Hib vaccine was introduced in the US around 1990. What is so striking about this is that to me, as a fresh doc about to enter residency in 2008, H. flu is little more than a historical footnote. What defined a large part of her training, and led to countless admissions to the hospital, ER visits, antibiotic regimens, and significant morbidity and mortality, is to me just another box to check on the well-child checkup. (I try very hard not to take that fact for granted) I think the last paper I read cited a 99% decrease in the rate of invasive Hib disease.

I think that kind of story illustrates why the vast majority of medical students (including myself) are very pro-vaccination - we get the benefit of the knowledge of the old-time docs who buried too many kids with diseases that are covered by vaccines now.

PS - Want to know my opinion of what kind of illness will "define" my training? Check out this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/16/he...infect.html?hp

[TanyaS]

I read that article earlier today. Avoiding the hospital's germs was a bonus for choosing a homebirth.

Did you ever discuss serotype conversion while covering Hib?

:

[mamakay]

We would also cover relevant vaccination topics when they pertained to the 'system' we were covering at the time - i.e., during the gastrointestinal system module, we covered the Hep B and rotavirus vaccines, for example.

What does HepB have to do with the gastro system?

What is so striking about this is that to me, as a fresh doc about to enter residency in 2008, H. flu is little more than a historical footnote. What defined a large part of her training, and led to countless admissions to the hospital, ER visits, antibiotic regimens, and significant morbidity and mortality, is to me just another box to check on the well-child checkup. (I try very hard not to take that fact for granted) I think the last paper I read cited a 99% decrease in the rate of invasive Hib disease.

Yeah, the B serotype. Now we have almost as much NTHi as we did B before, though. But a different age group to some extent.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

(h. influenzae starts about 3/4ths of the way down.)

[CarsonBookworm]

DD is on Medicaid and her PCP is a Pediatrican DO. She may not agree with our decision not to vax, but she accepts it.

[thefragile7393]

I have a DO that I'm not sure what her vax stance is....I haven't seen her since `03. I do need to call her and ask because she is somewhat more holistic minded....somewhat...she does adjustments and has no problem with my refusing blood products. Some DO's do come from a different background, and aren't quite as mainstream....though believe me I've seen the gamut and frankly it's hard in this area to find a DO who isn't like an MD.

For my own current issues I see an NMD...he's a licensed MD who got extra training as a naturopath and has training as an acupuncturist, homeopath, and other stuff. He's not a classical homeopath, which I would prefer, so I don't think I'd use him for that. He's flippin' expensive though....I am having to get at least a part-time job just to afford his visits and supplements for thyroid, adrenal, and neurotransmitter issues. Of course insurance will cover NONE of it, though it did cover some of my lab testing.

Honestly, sick-care is so much more affordable than complementary medicine....even without insurance it can be cheaper. It's sad. I'm researching herbals and how to make my own remedies, homeopathic meds, and nutrition so I can really do as much at-home treatment as I can, as I just have lost faith in much of sick-care.

[spero]

Originally Posted by KilgoreTrout

during the gastrointestinal system module, we covered the Hep B and rotavirus vaccines, for example.

Echoing MK - what does Hep B have to do with gastro?

Also, did you cover possible serious adverse effects with the Hep B and Hib vaccines - specifically for those two, the onset of diabetes?

[I]She told us about her residency training back in the late 70's. In the winter, the hospital pediatrics wards would be overflowing with kids sick with bacteremia, meningitis, and pneumonia from Haemophilus influenzae. Unfortunately, a high number of kids died from this.

Gosh, I grew up in the 70s and never even knew one kid who spent time in the hospital for any of that stuff - not even my chronically ill brother who seemed to catch everything out there.

:

Of course, most of you know that the Hib vaccine was introduced in the US around 1990. What is so striking about this is that to me, as a fresh doc about to enter residency in 2008, H. flu is little more than a historical footnote. What defined a large part of her training, and led to countless admissions to the hospital, ER visits, antibiotic regimens, and significant morbidity and mortality, is to me just another box to check on the well-child checkup. (I try very hard not to take that fact for granted) I think the last paper I read cited a 99% decrease in the rate of invasive Hib disease.

And again, I ask you - did you cover anything at all regarding serotype conversion/replacement? Because if you didn't, I'd hardly call that a balanced education.

I think that kind of story illustrates why the vast majority of medical students (including myself) are very pro-vaccination - we get the benefit of the knowledge of the old-time docs who buried too many kids with diseases that are covered by vaccines now.

Maybe you "new-time" docs should spend some education time and dollars learning how to TREAT disease, rather than push us to load up our kids with toxins to "prevent" it. : What a radical idea!

[wallacesmum]

Perhaps taking the old-time docs memories of hospital beds overflowing with children dying of diseases that just happen to have vaccines with a grain of salt wouldn't hurt either. I don't mean to sound snarky, but the argument that "we are pro-vax because we know all about how bad these diseases USED to be" is fairly regular around here, and in a lot of cases it either doesn't match up with the vaccine data (disease decline prior, other non-vaxed diseases decline at same rate, etc.) or, as in the case with Hib, there is a whole other can of worms that gets opened once we successfully eradicate a particular strain of bacterial flora.

Kind of like the old "the polio vax is great because my mom had a classmate in leg braces and an iron lung" saw.