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Solicting opinions please, what would you do? - Page 2

post #21 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoAlley View Post
Yeah, his head was right at the opening of my vagina, they gave me a mirror just so I could look. So yeah, good question, I'm gonna look around on the internet and see if I can find anything about whether he would have been past my pelvis or not. As far as the wait goes, I was wondering what was taking so long too though cause at first they said I was doing great and he was really moving along well but then for 2 hours there was no significant movement/progress. My family was actually upset that they waited even a whole 2 hours to get him out via C-section, they actually wondered why they waited so long if he was becoming distressed.
They had no way of knowing he would go into "distress", I'm sure they acted quickly at that point. 2 hours of pushing would not concern me, ESPECIALLY for a first time mom and ESPECIALLY with an epidural. If you and baby were fine, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable with you pushing longer. But, they deemed that your son wasn't okay and so you had the c/s.

I just think it's irresponsible for your OB to blame your pelvis for the outcome when it could have been any number of factors or combination of factors.
post #22 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by blissful_maia View Post
I just think it's irresponsible for your OB to blame your pelvis for the outcome when it could have been any number of factors or combination of factors.
I think so too and I've seen it SO MANY times. Sometimes the OB likes to come out looking like a hero, and some OBs like to spare the mom from having feelings of failure - either way it does a disservice to women to lie or stretch the truth.

If you could see your baby's head, then your baby was far enough down to be born vaginally. I'm so sorry you were lied to. Unfortunately some doctors are more concerned with liability than their duty to their patient. As a doula I know doctors who will schedule a cesarean if a woman goes 48 hours past her due date, it is disgusting but in some states there is a "3 strikes and you're out" liability rule.
post #23 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jilian View Post
If you could see your baby's head, then your baby was far enough down to be born vaginally.
And even more to the point - your baby's head was already through your pelvis. Your pelvis has already been "proven."
post #24 of 49
I would imagine that the trauma your babe recieved was mostly due to the fact that he was firmly engaged in the pelvis and already at a station where birth could have been imminent, then your OB did a section and had to pull on his neck and head to get him dislodged from your pelvis/ vaginal canal. Just my $.02.

FWIW- I pushed for 3 and 1/2 hours. But thankfully I had a MW who just let things happen. I still plan on having a homebirth next time though.

If I were you, I would get second, third, sixth, opinions on this. I highly doubt that the shape of your pelvis is at fault for your C-section. I would find a midwife or another OB (if that is what you prefer) that is very supportive of VBAC.
post #25 of 49
in my mind, if you have a medical reason for a c-section, then it's a good reason to get one.
post #26 of 49
Thread Starter 
I agree that his head would've been past my pelvis bones but what about his shoulders? Perhaps that's where he got "stuck"? Cause for 2 hours I pushed, with his head right there at the opening, but made no more progress. So there had to be a reason that he wasn't moving. Just trying to figure this out, so that I can make a good decision on how to have the next one.
post #27 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoAlley View Post
I agree that his head would've been past my pelvis bones but what about his shoulders? Perhaps that's where he got "stuck"? Cause for 2 hours I pushed, with his head right there at the opening, but made no more progress. So there had to be a reason that he wasn't moving. Just trying to figure this out, so that I can make a good decision on how to have the next one.
My dd's head was *right there* awhile too (at least where you could see it with a mirror....). Variation of normal. You were pushing on your back. He was trying to be moved uphill. It's a slow process

It's rare for shoulders to get stuck where a head can get past. Not unheard of. But rare.

-Angela
post #28 of 49
Thread Starter 
Nah, he wasn't being pushed uphill, I was on my back but the bed was elevated. His head was visible at the opening and I could feel it, for the whole 2 hours that I was pushing and not making progress.

Also, check this out, look at the animated pictures: http://www.trialimage.com/article_sh..._dystocia.html

That seems entirely possible to me, that perhaps he wasn't turning right in order to get his shoulders past my pubic bone and sacrum. No movement for 2 hours and they told me he was starting to show signs of fetal distress, then the decision was made to go to an emergency C-section, it all sounded perfectly logical to me at the time. I mean when I hear that he's in distress and I'm not making any progress pushing him out, well, what would you do? That was the logical decision knowing what I knew then.

I don't know, I feel like I'm spinning my wheels right now. I've been researching and researching, reading and reading, looking at pictures, trying to figure out what may have really happened and if the right decision was made but when it comes down to it, I guess I'll never really know, so it's not really gonna help me in making the decision for the next one. I guess I'm just gonna have to wait til I start my pre-natal appointments then start really asking questions and seeing about getting an accurate assessment of my pelvis. I think if I can get an accurate assessment of my pelvis, and perhaps by more than one doc, that I'll be much better armed to make an informed decision.

Thanks again everyone for all your help!
post #29 of 49
Pelvis assessments are really pretty useless.

And yeah, pushing on your back is uphill that's the way the anatomy is.

-Angela
post #30 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
And yeah, pushing on your back is uphill that's the way the anatomy is.
To be more specific, even if the bed is raised so you are "sitting up," your pelvis is still tilted the wrong direction. Think about how your pelvis is tilted sitting in a chair versus standing up. Some have argued that the "sitting" position is even worse than just laying down, but I don't know how true that is - makes some sense, though, since there is more compression in the abdominal area.
post #31 of 49
My daughter was homebirthed with about an hour pushing, she came out with subdural hematoma on her head. I was a little worried until I looked it up on the net and realized it was no big deal. I definetely second the sqatting when pushing thing, my dd was 9 pounds and I had no trouble with her. Sqatting opends up your pelvis about 10% more than other positions, it also gets you in a good position for gravity to help.
post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoAlley View Post
I mean when I hear that he's in distress and I'm not making any progress pushing him out, well, what would you do? That was the logical decision knowing what I knew then.
Exactly... you made the best choice you could knowing what you know at the time. You shouldn't have to defend that.

But now, and going forward, it's TOTALLY the right thing for you to be questioning what happened during the birth of your child. When you begin prenatals, are you going to go to the same doctor? If so, don't count on an assessment much different than the one he gave you before... that your pelvis was the reason for your surgery. Go to a different OB (if an OB is your preference), or choose a midwife (a better choice for any birth, IMO). Regardless, you should at least consult a midwife -- a woman who would most likely have more faith in the female body and might have a different perspective on your pelvis. KWIM?

I have to agree w/ PPs. With four different pelvic shapes that have evolved over human existance, it doesn't make sense that the shape of your pelvis should inhibit the normal birth of your child. Indeed, shoulder dystocia is a possibility, there are other options for dislodging the shoulders from the pelvis other than simply going to a c-section.

Also, you called your cesarean an "emergency." How long did it take from the time the c-section decision was made until the time you were wheeled into the OR? The reason I ask is that if there was time (30 minutes or so) between the decision and the cut, then it was not true emergency. As a doula, I've seen a true emergency happen, and it was 10 minutes from the moment the doc said "cesarean" to the baby being out in the OR. See what I mean? Sometimes the word "emergency" can be a scare tactic. Just take this knowledge into consideration when you're factoring everything else in...
post #33 of 49
Thread Starter 
I would have to say it wasn't a true emergency because I think, if I remember correctly, that I had to wait on a room, or for some reason there was some waiting time. I remember being on my side, cause that's how they told me to position myself because my son seemed to do better that way and I remember watching the life sign panel and talking to my husband before they took me into the room. I can't remember for sure what the wait was for. But I do know that my son was okay for me to just be lying there. As far as I know, it was just the fact that my son wasn't making any progress, he wasn't making it any further down the birth canal and he seemed to be getting distressed from the pushing.

I will be going back to the same clinic, same docs, because it's the only choice I have for insurance coverage, but rest assured I'll be asking lots of questions and letting them know I've been doing my research and want to make the best decision. I have already thought about at least trying to get in touch with a midwife though, just so that I have someone else knowledgeable besides my doc to talk to about this. Right now I'm just not sure how to get in touch with one and how I could talk to one free of charge.
post #34 of 49
Every midwife I've heard of will do an initial interview free.

-Angela
post #35 of 49
Our midwife does a free interview. The idea is that you are deciding if you are compatible and want to use them! I think it would be very useful to speak to a midwife. Tell her that you may have a narrow pelvis and about the last birth and see if she is worried about it. You'll probably feel a lot better having her opinion that that of all these women on the forum who are super nice and knowledgable, but you don't know who we are!

Then our bill for all prenatal care and delivery is just under $4000, so even if your insurance won't go for it, it might be doable out of pocket. Actually, our medicaid is paying for our homebirth

I think you're totally right to get an assessment of your pelvis that you can trust. Then you'll know whether you have to worry about these issues or not! But I also agree with most other posters that it seems awfully unlikely that your pelvis was too narrow to birth, while there are swarms of stories of hospital intervention interfering with a body's natural ability to birth a baby!

Be sure to tell your husband (or whoever is with you) that he has to remember to squat if there's trouble pushing the baby out! He can remind you because you might be busy

I'm glad your last baby was born safely and that you both recovered and are well now! I hope you have a wonderful birth this go round!!
post #36 of 49
Thread Starter 
Cool!
post #37 of 49
I have trouble with short posts Sorry, but I thought of something else :

I've just read Birthing From Within by Pam England and Rob Horowitz (our library had it). It's a very interesting and beautiful book and it talks about the changes in pelvic diameter in the squatting, semi-sitting, and lying flat positions. It says that while lying flat works against gravity, may decrease oxygen to baby, and may increase your labor pains, it is actually better than the semi-sitting position (which sounds like the position you were in?) because semi-sitting decreases the diameter of the pelvic opening more.

The same page goes on to say that CPD (Cephalo Pelvic Disproportion) wherein the baby is too large to fit through the pelvis is a common explanation given for Cesareans but is not an absolute diagnosis and that such women often birth larger babies naturally in subsequent births.

It makes me mad if your doctor did tell you this without due cause, because it could effect all of your future births and cause unnecessary trauma to you and your babies! :

Oh, while I'm recommending books, Spiritual Midwifery is my very favorite birthing book, full of birth stories of natural births, several of which were "supposed" to be impossible or dangerous. It's very spiritual and a heartwarming read

As an aside, when I delivered my daughter, her head came out but her shoulders were stuck (shoulder dyscotia). The midwife had me turn onto my hands and knees and pulled her out safe and sound with no bruising. I don't know how that relates to your experience, since my daughter's head was actually outside of my body and looking around by then . . .
post #38 of 49
I just wanted to chime in re: insurance. Of course, everyone's insurance is different. I wanted to share my experience, though. I have Cigna. They in theory cover midwives, but had none in my area. They agreed, because there were no in-network midwives, to cover *any* midwife I could find. Score! SO, just because you can't find any in-network midwives does not mean you can't have one. Also, some midwives bill under an OB who oversees them, so even if they aren't covered, the OB might be and you can bill though her.
post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreThanApplesauce View Post
I just wanted to chime in re: insurance. Of course, everyone's insurance is different. I wanted to share my experience, though. I have Cigna. They in theory cover midwives, but had none in my area. They agreed, because there were no in-network midwives, to cover *any* midwife I could find. Score! SO, just because you can't find any in-network midwives does not mean you can't have one. Also, some midwives bill under an OB who oversees them, so even if they aren't covered, the OB might be and you can bill though her.
Yep. If they say they cover a type of provider and don't have any in network, you can get them to let you use one of your choice at the in-network rate.

-Angela
post #40 of 49
Sounds like a lot of people have good knowledge. All I have is my personal experience. I was born via emergency c-section because I was 'stuck'. The doctor later told my mom she had a 'gothic arch' to her pelvis. This just means that the arch of her pelvis is narrow.

When I was pregnant with DS I was concerned that I may have the same problem. I had the midwives check me to help releive my fears. To my surprise, I also have a narrow arch to my pelvis. The midwives said not to worry, with a natural childbirth I can change positions to find one that will work to get the baby out.

Well, DS was born vaginally after a natural labor and birth. I pushed him out while on my hands and knees, and my narrow arch was not an issue. Perhaps the reason I was born via c-section was because my mom had an epidural and thus was only able to push in one position--lying on her back. I have given birth, so trust me when I say I totally understand wanting an epidural! It is hard and painful! But, this birth could be totally different. I like to hope you can have your baby naturally, but I think it would be best to tough it out with a natural birth so you can move around as you please. Anyway, best of wishes.
--K
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