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I started a Princess battle at preschool - Page 2

post #21 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
If you read batman comics, or even watch the critically acclaimed and widely respected late 1990s batman cartoon, you will see why the original title was "Detective Comics". Batman is a detective first and a butt-kicker second.

Spiderman was the first superhero with real problems. He is a scientist, a teenager, and a super hero. In the comic world he INVENTED the web shooter device and the fluid that gives him web (even though in the movie it is an organic mutation). He is a problem solver who uses his inventions and his powers in an attempt to solve problems without hurting people, people who want to hurt him.
HA! I was JUST going to point this out when I got down to your post!

My DS is a Batman fanatic! He's never seen any Batman TV shows, but instead devours the comic books. Batman is SMART! He has no superpowers, but he invented all this super cool stuff and became an incredible athlete in order to fight crime. He never beats up the bad guys, but rather puts them in jail.

Even cooler - Batman is his real persona; his Bruce Wayne character is fake. He plays Bruce Wayne as a playboy jerk so that no one will suspect that he's Batman.

He has to use his wits alone to figure out whodunit. He's a detective, but one with a cool cape!

We're big Batman fans around here, and IMO, it's absurd to outlaw superheroes!

But I agree with the sentiment of what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If superheroes are gone, then princesses should be, too. I agree 100% with the idea that all licenced characters should be banned.
post #22 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanbaby View Post
Question: Do they allow Buzz Lightyear? There is "violence" associated with that character, and as my 6yo exasperately points out to my 3yo all the time, "Buzz Lightyear is not a superhero, he's a Space Ranger!"
I think they did not have time or inclination to sit down and decide which hero uses fists/guns/lasers/swords/intellect... so they just lumped all BOY HEROS together and banned them.
post #23 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah's mom View Post
I agree with your approach, from the perspective of - if they're going to ban one, they need to ban the other. Or neither. Definitely seems like a double-standard going on there.
:

Total double standard. Sick.
The waldorf school near us allows no licensed characters of any kind. I applaud that; school should be a commercial-free zone.
It would be cool if they could allow any kind of PLAY and dress-up, as long as they are not using licensed character costumes.

As for the idea that some parents are "afraid to express their views in public" - because they likely think that "big, bad, hairy, man-hating dyke is trying to take away princess fun for our girly-girls and indoctrinate them to be gay too," well, that is just too sick sick sick for words, and I would address it openly. Call them on that bulls*&t. Any rational, logical, sane person should be able to see that the policy is unfair and inconsistent and needs to be fixed.

Good luck! I can't wait to see the updates.

Jen
post #24 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kincaid View Post
I think you have made an incorrect jump in logic. They do NOT ban myth, or fiction. They certainly encourage fantasy play to a huge extent! They do not lack a basic understanding of human psychology because they don't want spiderman backpacks
What do you think roman children drew on their wax tablets? Hercules, a super hero, who happens to now be considered a literary figure, and is part of a historically important rich culture, which basically revolved around super hero worship.

Despite marketing SPIDERMAN IS MODERN MYTHOLOGY, spiderman is modern culture. Spiderman, batman, superman, etc etc are just as important as hercules, Huck Finn, Bilbo Baggins, Aslan the Lion, Alice in Wonderland, King Arthur and Beowolf...

Exclusive control of people's play is a low level form of mind control, and attempting to eliminate subculture, ideas, and themes through mind control is historically looked upon in a very poor light.
post #25 of 331
Wow, I'm jumping off the bandwagon here.

:

In general, I'm all about expanding freedoms, rather than contracting them. I'm all about not legislating morality (or whatever it is that the university believes is at stake here). I hate the argument that, "if we allow this, our values will decline." The same has been said in the past about integration, about gay rights, and the list goes on. I realize princess lunchboxes are not in the same category as gay rights, but I do think it falls into the category of a basic human freedom--freedom of expression--and I think it's the same kind of fearful, dictatorial voice that tries to squelch them.

This also goes to the concurrent thread about control in parenting. I can see that there are lots of different layers to that debate, but one thing I am definitely NOT on board with is giving the reins of "control" to some third party, like my kids' daycare. I don't want them hearing that princesses and superheroes are "wrong" or "bad" or "harmful" anymore than I want them hearing that it's bad for Connor to have two daddies. (Which it's NOT, in case I've been in any way unclear about that. ) They're thinking human beings, and they can decide on their own what interests them and what repels them.

The only thing I agree with here is that the current ban is unfair. If I were in this situation, I'd be sending out e-mails too, but mine would be calling for the ban on superheroes to be lifted. But who knows, it may be that your princess e-mail ultimately has that residual effect.
post #26 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahogny View Post
Even cooler - Batman is his real persona; his Bruce Wayne character is fake. He plays Bruce Wayne as a playboy jerk so that no one will suspect that he's Batman.
Omigosh! I never quite got that until you spelled it out just now! Now it all makes sense...:

Jen
post #27 of 331
good for you!! I think it is rediculious to impose rules on one gender, yet let the other one continue. kids that age don't understand either, they see the girls with their character lunch boxes, why cant they have their one?
post #28 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderwahine View Post
good for you!! I think it is rediculious to impose rules on one gender, yet let the other one continue. kids that age don't understand either, they see the girls with their character lunch boxes, why cant they have their one?
See, imo, it's not even really a rule for one gender...a girl who likes Spidey is still penalized under these rules.
post #29 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahogny View Post
HA! I was JUST going to point this out when I got down to your post!

My DS is a Batman fanatic! He's never seen any Batman TV shows, but instead devours the comic books. Batman is SMART! He has no superpowers, but he invented all this super cool stuff and became an incredible athlete in order to fight crime. He never beats up the bad guys, but rather puts them in jail.

Even cooler - Batman is his real persona; his Bruce Wayne character is fake. He plays Bruce Wayne as a playboy jerk so that no one will suspect that he's Batman.

He has to use his wits alone to figure out whodunit. He's a detective, but one with a cool cape!

We're big Batman fans around here, and IMO, it's absurd to outlaw superheroes!

But I agree with the sentiment of what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If superheroes are gone, then princesses should be, too. I agree 100% with the idea that all licenced characters should be banned.
clark kent is also a persona, and the real man is superman. and if your dc is growing up watching smallville, they are seeing even more problem solving with moral choices to be made and human emotions to deal with.

I think its wrong to ban either one in schools, but if you plan to ban one, ban it for both sexes, dont pick on just the boys.
post #30 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
See, imo, it's not even really a rule for one gender...a girl who likes Spidey is still penalized under these rules.
very true!
post #31 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
Despite marketing SPIDERMAN IS MODERN MYTHOLOGY, spiderman is modern culture. Spiderman, batman, superman, etc etc are just as important as hercules, Huck Finn, Bilbo Baggins, Aslan the Lion, Alice in Wonderland, King Arthur and Beowolf...

Exclusive control of people's play is a low level form of mind control, and attempting to eliminate subculture, ideas, and themes through mind control is historically looked upon in a very poor light.
Nicely stated, ShaggyDaddy.

This type of ban seems to support the notion that there's a backlash against boys in educational settings. I'm not saying there is, but...
post #32 of 331
A boy who wanted to wear a tiara would also be penalized under a princess ban, which I think would suck.
post #33 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kincaid View Post
I'm the only lesbian mommy at the school, so I am *positive* some of the parents are wanting to reply anonymous because they are saying "it's NORMAL for little girls to do this..." etc. As if I don't understand "normal" because my own sense of gender rightness is warped.
Aw, crap. That's totally what the anonymous thing is about.

post #34 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
What do you think roman children drew on their wax tablets? Hercules, a super hero, who happens to now be considered a literary figure, and is part of a historically important rich culture, which basically revolved around super hero worship.

Despite marketing SPIDERMAN IS MODERN MYTHOLOGY, spiderman is modern culture. Spiderman, batman, superman, etc etc are just as important as hercules, Huck Finn, Bilbo Baggins, Aslan the Lion, Alice in Wonderland, King Arthur and Beowolf...

Exclusive control of people's play is a low level form of mind control, and attempting to eliminate subculture, ideas, and themes through mind control is historically looked upon in a very poor light.
We posted at the same time. ITA with this. Couldn't agree more. Agreeing, agreeing, agreeing. Did I say I agree?
post #35 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jescafa View Post
A boy who wanted to wear a tiara would also be penalized under a princess ban, which I think would suck.
yes and so is a girl who likes supergirl or wonderwoman......the rule all around sucks
post #36 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
What do you think roman children drew on their wax tablets? Hercules, a super hero, who happens to now be considered a literary figure, and is part of a historically important rich culture, which basically revolved around super hero worship.

Despite marketing SPIDERMAN IS MODERN MYTHOLOGY, spiderman is modern culture. Spiderman, batman, superman, etc etc are just as important as hercules, Huck Finn, Bilbo Baggins, Aslan the Lion, Alice in Wonderland, King Arthur and Beowolf...

Exclusive control of people's play is a low level form of mind control, and attempting to eliminate subculture, ideas, and themes through mind control is historically looked upon in a very poor light.
Roman children were not subjected to the assault of sophisticated global marketing forces aimed at children. Marketing to children is now a heavily oppressive phenomenon. If Disney picks up the rights to Beowolf, puts their own spin on it, and saturates the market with licensed t-shirts, lunchboxes, notebooks, pencils, toys, yadda yadda yadda... it becomes something other than a fantasy. It becomes a marketing force.

Spiderman is NOT the problem. I agree with you, that is our version of a modern myth. I have a problem with the machine that is marketing to our kids. And the fact that one gender in our school is getting to enjoy it, while another can't. Make sense?
post #37 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kincaid View Post
I have no problem with the heros... I have a problem with the machine that is marketing to our kids. And the fact that one gender in our school is getting to enjoy it, while another can't. Make sense?
Again, neither superheroes or princesses are necessarily gender-specific.

And while I agree it's unfair that kids can enjoy one and not the other, I don't buy (to coin a phrase) that the solution is to make it so that no one enjoys either.
post #38 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jescafa View Post
Again, neither superheroes or princesses are necessarily gender-specific.

And while I agree it's unfair that kids can enjoy one and not the other, I don't buy (to coin a phrase) that the solution is to make it so that no one enjoys either.
i think that by poking holes in their logic, you can either get the rule reversed, or make it fair on everyone. Its simply not fair to have one group of kids lose out on their fantasy play etc and the other group still have theirs. I would much rather see an all around unfair rule than a onesided one.
post #39 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderwahine View Post
i think that by poking holes in their logic, you can either get the rule reversed, or make it fair on everyone. Its simply not fair to have one group of kids lose out on their fantasy play etc and the other group still have theirs. I would much rather see an all around unfair rule than a onesided one.
I don't think we disagree, I'm just saying the rule sucks and there's no way to make it fair. You outlaw superheroes and princesses, but then...what...Wizard of Oz characters are OK? What about devils? What about Nemo? What about jungle cats? What about Polly Pocket? What about Hello Kitty? What about Betty Grable? What about the OC? What about High School Musical? What about the Rocky Horror Picture Show? What about Malcolm X? What about a "Support the Troops" lunchbox?

If my kids' school had a rule like this, I'd buy all the lunchboxes I could find that had potentially culturally complicated messages and send my daughter with a different one every day. With her permission, of course.
post #40 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jescafa View Post
I don't think we disagree, I'm just saying the rule sucks and there's no way to make it fair. You outlaw superheroes and princesses, but then...what...Wizard of Oz characters are OK? What about devils? What about Nemo? What about jungle cats? What about Polly Pocket? What about Hello Kitty? What about Betty Grable? What about the OC? What about High School Musical? What about the Rocky Horror Picture Show? What about Malcolm X? What about a "Support the Troops" lunchbox?

If my kids' school had a rule like this, I'd buy all the lunchboxes I could find that had potentially culturally complicated messages and send my daughter with a different one every day. With her permission, of course.
me and you are on the same wavelength, I would do that to, my mum did a similar thing with me as a young teen. My school had a natural hair colors only rule, so she dyed my hair purple with my permission
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