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I started a Princess battle at preschool - Page 5

post #81 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivka5 View Post
My two-year-old has a shirt with a picture of the solar system, only in place of the sun is the word "me." Below the picture, it says, "Center of the Universe."

On a toddler, I think that shirt is funny, because it's such an accurate description of the two-year-old worldview. However: I have also seen a grown man wearing the same shirt. I didn't think that was funny at all.

My 6 year old has a shirt that says "Little Girl, Big Attitude" Boy is that ever accurate!! I generally hate the snotty type shirts, but that one doesn't bother me. If she were 13, maybe, but not at 6.

I'm okay with banning violent play, but I disagree with banning superheroes totally.

I'm also not completely anti-princess, though. My daughter will wear her princess necklaces and shoes with her Darth Vader mask and batman cape. I don't buy Bratz crap, or go overboard on the princess thing, but I don't mind Barbie (at least she had careers!) and dressing up.

I think the reverse double-standard in alternative parenting circles kinda sucks. Like if you let your son indulge in princess stuff, your super cool and open-minded, but you're awful if you let your daughter do it.
post #82 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood View Post
Well, they need to remember that it's also normal for little boys to be aggressive. Instead of remembering that they label them ADD and ban superhero play. :UGH whatever happened to boys will be boys?!

I'd personally go after them for banning superhero stuff in the first place. Why ban everything?
I kind of have issues with that. My boys (and more than a few girls I've known) are certainly capable of role playing with weapons and even superheros sometimes. That said they've never been really into superheros that much. Just not really their thing though I've never foribidden it or made any comment.

I do know some kids from our playgroup who are IMO more aggressive than average who, depsite being no tv and no character, were very into Power Rangers, etc. They actually picked it up from Montessori school

If my kids went to their school, I think I would prefer that that kind of play be discouraged TBH. Those kids I knew were really mean to my kids and bullied them.

It bothers me to hear "boys are like that" because many boys I know are NOT so much like that. Ironically IME it's the kids who are forbidden more things who really latched onto it in play AND were aggressive towards others.

My kids and their friends (who are not really restricted)tend to play a wider range of things. Toy weapons are sometimes involved as I'm okay with that. But it's a smaller part of the overall play IME and it's not the only thing they do. The other kids I know seemed a bit obesessed TBH.

Anyway my rambling point is that while in our homelife we don't restrict and we've had good results I'm personally okay with "school rules" and having limits there.
post #83 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kincaid View Post
If Disney picks up the rights to Beowolf, puts their own spin on it, and saturates the market with licensed t-shirts, lunchboxes, notebooks, pencils, toys, yadda yadda yadda... it becomes something other than a fantasy. It becomes a marketing force.
Not sure if this is what you were referring to, but Beowulf is actually coming out as a new movie next month. It's not Disney, but it is animated, and I'm sure they'll have lots of merchandise.
post #84 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
I don't want to teach my dd to be bossy. Of course, I may have issues with the whole politics thing because I cant stand politicians.
That makes total sense. But it's food for thought, isn't it--is the princess thing bad because princesses are bossy? Or because princesses are passive? Doesn't one sort of mitigate the other?

And I personally don't think there's a thing wrong with little kids being into fashion and aesthetics and adornment. They might parlay that interest someday into becoming artists, fashion designers, set designers, animators, a whole host of creative careers. Maybe even art historians, like moi.

I should probably admit that I'm sure it's partly because I'm a museum professional that I am so repelled by creative censorship in general.
post #85 of 331
I dont see princesses as passive at all. (I guess in cartoons they are portrayed that way....hmmm...) we havent gotten to that age with dd so I only have experience from when I was a girl, I havent had the oppertunity to observe little girls in princess play yet.

You are a museam professional! Holy Cow, that sounds like a good job for me. Sometimes I run into jobs I never even realized existed....but duh, people work at museams. I, myself, am a bit of an artist. (A crappy one, LOL, but I enjoy myself.)

Sorry OT.
post #86 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by marybethorama View Post
I kind of have issues with that. My boys (and more than a few girls I've known) are certainly capable of role playing with weapons and even superheros sometimes. That said they've never been really into superheros that much. Just not really their thing though I've never foribidden it or made any comment.

I do know some kids from our playgroup who are IMO more aggressive than average who, depsite being no tv and no character, were very into Power Rangers, etc. They actually picked it up from Montessori school

If my kids went to their school, I think I would prefer that that kind of play be discouraged TBH. Those kids I knew were really mean to my kids and bullied them.

It bothers me to hear "boys are like that" because many boys I know are NOT so much like that. Ironically IME it's the kids who are forbidden more things who really latched onto it in play AND were aggressive towards others.

My kids and their friends (who are not really restricted)tend to play a wider range of things. Toy weapons are sometimes involved as I'm okay with that. But it's a smaller part of the overall play IME and it's not the only thing they do. The other kids I know seemed a bit obesessed TBH.

Anyway my rambling point is that while in our homelife we don't restrict and we've had good results I'm personally okay with "school rules" and having limits there.
Sorry you have issue with it. It's my opinion. Everybody has one.
post #87 of 331
I'm with you Kincaid! Really for the reason that I think rigid gender roles are marketed to children via the selling of princess and super hero toys, and I think that is really, really unhealthy for everyone.

In my own home we have worked hard to avoid those things, and I would really resent dealing with a school or daycare context where my child is picking up those roles via other children's obsessions with the toys.
post #88 of 331
I haven't even read the whole thread yet but this horrifies me!!! I personally have no problem with superhero play anyway - and if it's about problem solving skills - well princesses are much more of a negative influence - they don't even solve their own problems much of the time!!!!

It should be all or nothing. If the issue is actually about fighting, violence then they need to address that specifically, not just eliminate superheroes.

Good luck - I hope your meeting is successful!
post #89 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
You are a museam professional! Holy Cow, that sounds like a good job for me. Sometimes I run into jobs I never even realized existed....but duh, people work at museams. I, myself, am a bit of an artist. (A crappy one, LOL, but I enjoy myself.)

Sorry OT.
It is a cool job. But re. the topic, we get the parental (and non-parental) thought-control thing all the time. Angry comment cards about the nudes (are we supposed to cover them up when children come through the doors?), the ecumenical holiday decorations (that pretty much pisses of Christians, Jews, pagans, and Eastern religions equally), whether or not we have dealt with artists' biographies (mistresses, homosexuality, whatever) in a candid but sufficiently sanitized way, whether or not we have enough women/non-western/people of color artists up on the walls to offset the dominance of deal white maleness. If my daughters' preschool similarly became a cultural-ideological battleground, I think my head would explode.
post #90 of 331
My almost 4 yr old loves princesses. I don't particularly like them, but I don't feel like banning them. She hasn't seen the movies, except for a few snippets (like the dr's office that had The Little Mermaid playing in the waiting room). But she has princess dress up dresses and princess panties. She didn't even know their names till dad clued them in. So there is no mythological awareness there. She likes pretty dresses and dancing.

Honestly, I could get behind a "no licensed characters" ban. I understand the preschool's position, in that when I taught preschool I got sick of the boys' only imaginative play involving acting out movies. But not having a superhero backpack or lunch box isn't going to change that.

I agree neither superheroes nor princess stuff help promote an active imagination. And we play "superhero" at our house, but it's not based on a movie, bc we haven't seen them. We just fly around and maybe pretend to save people and call ourselves Supergirl. So yes, either both are banned (as a no licensed character) or neither, I think.
post #91 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivka5 View Post
My two-year-old has a shirt with a picture of the solar system, only in place of the sun is the word "me." Below the picture, it says, "Center of the Universe."

On a toddler, I think that shirt is funny, because it's such an accurate description of the two-year-old worldview. However: I have also seen a grown man wearing the same shirt. I didn't think that was funny at all.
I wouldn't like that one on an adult, either. It strikes me as a total toddler shirt. I could probably live with ds1 wearing it, because I know it would be tongue in cheek, but we'd also have a conversation about how other people might take it (eg. do you really want everyone thinking you're that stuck on yourself?). I probably wouldn't buy it for him.

The ones I really loathe are the "sister for sale: cheap" and...can't think of very many right now, but there are a lot of them. I just find them totally offensive.

I still can't help having a soft spot for "Earth is full. Go home.", though...just strikes my funny bone, despite being kind of obnoxious.
post #92 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terabith View Post
I agree neither superheroes nor princess stuff help promote an active imagination.
That statement is very confusing to me. Imagination isn't just isolated thought in a bubble, some of the best stories of any time were built on other people's works. When we bring our imaginations together we create culture.

Shakespeare wrote Julius Caeser based not really on the history, but based on the stories that were part of his culture.

When CS Lewis wrote Grendel, he was building on a small detail in the oldest fairy tale.

When Sam Raimi directed the new spider man movie, he was building on the story and the style and the content of a legend he had nothing to do with.

If we give in to the serial licensing frenzy and allow our kids to be overwhelmed with marketing, we lose. But if we ignore our modern mythology and our modern culture in persuit of some unobtainable "uninfluenced" state, we miss out on a lot too.

There was a lot of useless crap that got performed at the Globe Theatre in the 1590s, performances that were exploitave, trashy, rip-offs, and were cash grabs designed to get people in the seats. It is true that the vast majority of plays were corporate cashgrabs designed to placete the masses. What if we decided to ignore all playwrites because they are just trying to take our money and write the most racey play? Is avoiding that stuff worth missing out on seeing the original run of Hamlet? Our modern culture has a lot of junk, but so did every culture. If there was no bitter in the world, how would we ever know what sweet tasted like?

Teaching my kids to wade through the junk and treasure the gems is my duty and my pleasure.
post #93 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
Teaching my kids to wade through the junk and treasure the gems is my duty and my pleasure.
post #94 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb View Post
I'm okay with banning violent play, but I disagree with banning superheroes totally. .... I think the reverse double-standard in alternative parenting circles kinda sucks. Like, if you let your son indulge in princess stuff, your super cool and open-minded, but you're awful if you let your daughter do it.
I had this exact experience. My girlfriend's son is the same age as my daughter. I was kvetching with her about how my inlaws gave dd a Barbie gift, even though they knew I objected. However, dh and I had given dd a whole bunch of Star Wars figurines to play with. Girlfriend said they'd had the exact same experience, in reverse. Her mil gave ds a toy gun, knowing that girlfriend objected. But girlfriend didn't think twice when her ds played with Barbie dolls, she figured it was evidence that he's such a well rounded boy. It didn't occure to her think about effect playing with this impossibly built bimbo would have on her son. We had a good laugh about it, and then wondered about it.

:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy's Mom View Post
If the issue is actually about fighting, violence then they need to address that specifically, not just eliminate superheroes.
Yes. These day care providers are taking the lazy way out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
Teaching my kids to wade through the junk and treasure the gems is my duty and my pleasure.
And that's it, in a nut shell. Well said. (Though I didn't know Lewis wrote Grendel. I thought it was John Gardner.)

OP, this might all be moot, because the daycare directors/powers-that-be can simply say, 'Obviously you haven't found a good fit with this institution. Perhaps you'd like to try XYZ daycare down the road?'
post #95 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post
(Though I didn't know Lewis wrote Grendel. I thought it was John Gardner.)
d'oh, no it is Gardner... I have no idea why, but I always seem to get screwtape and grendel mixed up... I think I read them in the same month.
post #96 of 331
I don't like the 'no superhero' play thing. Why? Okay, primarily it's boys that play superhero...not always of course, but primarily...or at least the more 'active' little girls.

Why are we trying to (for lack of a better phrase) punish little boys? This is why so many little boys are labeled ADD...they take away their active imaginative play and force them into a little box.

My son is BOY. He's the definition of the stereotypical little boy. He likes cars and trucks and trains and crashing and throwing balls and shooting pretend guns. I'm fine with all this because thats HIM. He has stuffed animals that he 'babies' heck he even breastfeeds some of them but for the most part he is BOY.

If they are just banning the clothes, that is one thing. But if they are going to ban the Spiderman/Batman/Superman shirts they dang well better ban Cinderella and Snow White too. Personally, I'd be FOR banning all character backpacks, lunch boxes and clothes. Dora, Diego, Thomas, Disney Princess, Superman all included. If a little boy wants to wear a shirt with a generic superhero it should be allowed....what about Larry Boy? Is he banned? He's a Superhero...

But banning a specific method of play? Thats ridicules.
post #97 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terabith View Post
I agree neither superheroes nor princess stuff help promote an active imagination.
I don't know, my 5-year-old daughter has some Disney princess dolls and I think she plays with them in a very imaginative way. Not once have I witnessed her sit down with her Ariel doll and act out The Little Mermaid step-by-step. Instead, Ariel goes to the park with her friends, or makes dinner for her baby, or flies on a plane to see her grandma, or (yes) gets married to her boyfriend. She plays the exact same way with her princess dolls, in fact, as she does with her generic wooden "Ryan's Room" dollhouse people, or her Groovy girls. I've seen the same thing with her friends -- even when they dress up as princesses it's because they want to "dance at a ball," not for the express purpose of "looking pretty" or to re-enact a Disney movie.

I certainly understand the concerns about marketing to kids and the more vapid aspects of Disney princesses, but I disagree that the "stuff" in and of itself limits or prohibits imaginative play.
post #98 of 331
there have always been "heros" Little boys thousands of years ago were playing hero!

I wonder if we have just evolved past being heros.


We are "too civilized" for heros.
post #99 of 331
Woo hoo! You go drama princess!

Actually, can it be proven that princesses and Bratz dolls do use "good problem solving skills?" I don't think so.

It sounds like gender bias to me too.
post #100 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBecks View Post
Woo hoo! You go drama princess!

Actually, can it be proven that princesses and Bratz dolls do use "good problem solving skills?" I don't think so.

It sounds like gender bias to me too.
Sure, if they're fashion problems. :
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