Discussion group for curing cavities without dairy - Page 5

[WildCanaryCait]

hi Jane~
we are using Nordic naturals Arctic CLO peach flavored liquid, one teaspoon daily.

[Punchy Kaby]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Nolansmum, can I PM you with a couple questions? About oxalates and calcium regulation.

Sure!

[Pookietooth]

Does anyone know if vitamin K2 is safe to take while bfing? And while pregnant? One of the brands I looked at had a warning not to take it if bfing or pregnant. That seemed odd -- maybe they put it on everything -- but I wanted to know what you thought.

Nolansmum, I have a couple of questions for you as well, should I PM you?

[Punchy Kaby]

Originally Posted by Pookietooth

Does anyone know if vitamin K2 is safe to take while bfing? And while pregnant? One of the brands I looked at had a warning not to take it if bfing or pregnant. That seemed odd -- maybe they put it on everything -- but I wanted to know what you thought.

Nolansmum, I have a couple of questions for you as well, should I PM you?

How old is your breast feeding baby? DS was just shy of 2 when I started taking it, but I believe we both need it for oxalate issues. I believe you can take up to 1 drop of Thorne K2, which is 1mg while pregnant. K2 is in some prenatal vitamins. It is powerful at what it does and I definitely would not take a lot of it with a young BF baby.

You are welcome to ask questions here or you can PM me. K2 is just one of the things I am using to help get the oxalates out.

[Pookietooth]

Actually, my nursling is almost 5 so it's not that big a deal. But I am ttc, so I'm not sure about that. Also, would an almost 5 year old be ok to take K2?
Yeah, what else to get the oxalates out?

Also, is the only other non-dairy source of calcium that doesn't have oxalates in it canned salmon with bones? (other than bone broth, which of course is not documented) I have what I think is vulvodynia, and I have read that oxalates can exacerbate it. I took calcium citrate, which is supposed to help, but it gave me the runs.

WildCanary, Nordic Naturals tends to be rather low in vitamins A and D. I know it tastes better, but you would need to supplement A and D when taking it.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Pookietooth

Yeah, what else to get the oxalates out?

Very high dose probiotics, the Vitamin K Yahoo group recommends VSL#3 but I would just do homemade cultures to reach high numbers.

I could have sworn magnesium too but now I cannot find the reference...

What about trying acidophilus suppositories for the vulvodynia?

[Panserbjorne]

I'm pretty sure it's sulfate. Epsom salt soaks will open the sulfation pathways to kick out the oxalates. Maybe that's why you were thinking magnesium, Jane?

[Punchy Kaby]

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond.

Epsom salts do help get the oxalates out. For the longest time [when we were on a high oxalate diet]I could only tolerate 1 tablespoon of ES in my bath, it was because the oxalates were exiting through the skin and it made me itchy (and DS) and it made me sick to my stomach and dizzy.

Bicarbonate-the kidneys need regular doses of bicarb to keep filtering oxalates through the urine. the recommendation from the vit k group is to start 1/4 t in divided doses throughout the day, also 1/4 t sea salt. The sea salt also detoxes other things like bromine, flourine and iodine. We need iodine but the other two we don't want and the detox from these is not that pleasant so go slowly. Google 'Sea salt detox' or 'sea salt flush'. On the SCD website they state it is ok for a pregnant woman do have 1/4 t sea salt and 1/4 t baking soda in a day. I suggest you read up on this because if you are detoxing a lot of bromine it is not safe while pregnant.

I also had vulvar pain. I get it when I eat too many oxalates or if I am dumping oxalates too quickly. Any citrate breaks up oxalates, I could not tolerate taking magnesium citrate at all. I also cannot tolerate any citrus fruits. The amino acid L-arginine helps me with the vulvar pain. I do not know if it is safe while pregnant.

Melatonin-helps the intestines process oxalates and dump them through the urine. I have started taking .5mg before bed. This is also from the vit k protocol.

I have found that I have to take my fat soluble vitamins away from all food and other supplements. They make my intestines hyper absorb oxalates. I now take all my fat soluble vitamins in the am 1 hr before I eat (DHA, Vit A and D, EPO, phosphatidylcholine (helps with gut inflammation), I take them with a digestive enzyme. I once took VSL and baking soda 1 hr after taking these vitamins all on an empty stomach and I got instantly agitated-I knew that all the oxalates that had been broken up by the vsl and bicarb were getting absorbed. I will never make that mistake again. I am still experimenting with the Vit K, right now I still take it with meals. This change in timing has been the most helpful for me. I had horrible vulvar pain, and cracking skin on my hands. Vit b2 also helps with the dry cracked skin. Whenever I eat a higher oxalate meal I take 100-200 mg B2 and my skin will not get dry and cracked.

The latest thing that I have added is Iodine, actually potassium iodide. There is some connection between oxalates and lack of iodine. There has been a lot of discussion about this on the Vit K group lately but I have not kept up.

[Pookietooth]

Thanks, nolansmom. What is VSL? Is that the probiotic (uber expensive)? I am trying to figure out what probiotics to do. I have goat's milk yogurt, but it's so expensive -- any cheaper fermented foods? I can't do fermented cow's milk because it trigger's nasty migraines.

I'm reading, in bits and pieces, The China study, just to see what it says. I find it rather annoying -- the author is so dismissive of low carb and anything that isn't pure vegan. He seems to really fear animal products, and that feeling really seems to get in the way of his reasoning and ability to explain himself. That, and the clear condescention he shows towards the common person. Strange for someone from a farming family.

Firefairy, I think you mentioned being on the primal diet? What is that? Do you really eat raw potato? Isn't that toxic?

[Panserbjorne]

NO!!!!!! No raw potato! I eat cooked potato, but everything else raw.

[Punchy Kaby]

Yes VSL#3 is the really expensive probiotic. DS gets 3 capsules a day, I take 2-3. His BM's were mush until he started taking 3 a day. I want to start making yogurt again as I am tolerating small amounts of dairy. Ha, I know this thread is about not having dairy...We have come a long way in the healing process since I figured out that oxalates are a big part of the problem.

I am giving myself another year to get ready for pregnancy, I hope my body has detoxed and healed enough and is primed for another baby because my heart really wants another one now!

[Punchy Kaby]

I have been reading more on the Vit. K website about the importance of bicarb. I will paraphrase the information. Without enough bicarb the kidneys are unable to concentrate acid in urine to excrete it. The urine is dilute and alkaline. The body pH is unbalanced and it starts pulling calcium from the teeth and bones to help maintain a balanced pH.

YOu can take oral baking soda or add baking soda to the bath.

Blood tests would show an elevated Alk Phos reading that would show that minerals are being pulled from bones and teeth.

So it would seem that you have to have a balanced pH and good kidney function before even thinking about taking calcium supplements.

Sorry I am too tired right now to support these statements with the proper info, hope to come back tomorrow...

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

I have been reading more on the Vit. K website about the importance of bicarb. I will paraphrase the information. Without enough bicarb the kidneys are unable to concentrate acid in urine to excrete it. The urine is dilute and alkaline. The body pH is unbalanced and it starts pulling calcium from the teeth and bones to help maintain a balanced pH.

YOu can take oral baking soda or add baking soda to the bath.

Do take caution, because too much baking soda in a concentrated dose could be lethal. I don't know what their recommendations are, just be aware that this is not an open ended dosing.

Pat

[mombh]

o.k.....am confused:

how do you get oxolates in your body and why is this a problem??

All "greens" contain oxolates?
what about cooking them?

thanks

[Punchy Kaby]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Do take caution, because too much baking soda in a concentrated dose could be lethal. I don't know what their recommendations are, just be aware that this is not an open ended dosing.

Pat

The suggestion from the Vit K group is to start with 1/4 t baking soda, 1/4 t sea salt split up into divided doses over the day. You can start with less if you have a bad reaction.

I make a batch every couple of days
2 cups distilled water
2 t sea salt
2 t baking soda

heat until salt and BS are dissolved. Store in refrigerator.

[Punchy Kaby]

Originally Posted by mombh

o.k.....am confused:

how do you get oxolates in your body and why is this a problem??

All "greens" contain oxolates?
what about cooking them?

thanks

Oxalates enter the body through food sources. Some people's bodies produce oxalates. Excess vitamin C can turn into oxalates (it does in my case). They can be a problem for people (not everyone), people who have leaky guts probably leak oxalates from food sources into the body after eating where the oxalates join with other things, like calcium, to form calcium-oxalate crystals that can reak havoc in the body. Some people get kidney stones, some have vulvar pain, it caused migraines in me, rashes in my son.

YOu can check out this website for more info on oxalates:
http://lowoxalate.info/

Cooking does not affect oxalates in most cases. Boiling food can help get some out, but in many cases when we cook greens esp by steaming they are more concentrated just because the food takes up less space.

Just to give you an idea, I eat around 100 mg of oxalates in a day, which is considered a moderate oxalate diet. Here are some high oxalate foods:
One Hershey bar=45mg oxalates
1/2 cup buckwheat=161 mg
22 almonds=120mg
1/2 cup steamed swiss chard=921 mg
1/2 cup boiled swiss chard=375 mg
1/2 cup raw spinach=114 mg

[mombh]

thanks for that info...so interesting
especially about the vitamin C, can you at least take SA or is that a problem too?

[Punchy Kaby]

Originally Posted by mombh

thanks for that info...so interesting
especially about the vitamin C, can you at least take SA or is that a problem too?

Nope, I cannot take any form of Vit C. I can eat foods that contain Vit C but I don't over do it.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by firefaery

I'm pretty sure it's sulfate. Epsom salt soaks will open the sulfation pathways to kick out the oxalates. Maybe that's why you were thinking magnesium, Jane?

Maybe but I think the transdermal magnesium guy also mentioned it, I don't have his book anymore. Mark Sircus.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

I have been reading more on the Vit. K website about the importance of bicarb. I will paraphrase the information. Without enough bicarb the kidneys are unable to concentrate acid in urine to excrete it. The urine is dilute and alkaline. The body pH is unbalanced and it starts pulling calcium from the teeth and bones to help maintain a balanced pH.

YOu can take oral baking soda or add baking soda to the bath.

Blood tests would show an elevated Alk Phos reading that would show that minerals are being pulled from bones and teeth.

So it would seem that you have to have a balanced pH and good kidney function before even thinking about taking calcium supplements.

I have yet to get back into the VitK group info but when I did read about bicarb, all I could think about was the other side of the coin: stomach acid. It's the proper low ph of stomach contents that kick starts the body's production of bicarb... could low stomach acid be a factor?

So I also want to state that taking bicarb around mealtimes will neutralize your stomach acid, which will not enable you to digest proteins properly, and thus start a cascade of complications.