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SD's friend can't come over any more...and here's why. - Page 4

post #61 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
But with women the trust is more about whether she will protect the child from the man, at least that is what you are talking about. Not whether she will actually perp. Although that does happen, no doubt, it is much less common.
I see your point -- but as far as trustworthiness goes, it's kind of the same quality whether you're looking at a man or a woman.

But I guess some of the signs might be different. An untrustworthy woman would be one who shows signs of being male-needy. I'm not sure what signs I'd look for to identify an untrustworthy man. What would you look for, thismama?
post #62 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by candiland View Post
Even my dp, who is a college professor and HS teacher, understood why the other woman's boyfriend was uneasy. He found it sad but understood it in the societal/cultural context in which we live. :
You mean just uneasy in general about sending his girlfriend's children to an overnight, in any home where there's going to be a male present, whether that male is married to the mother or not?

As I've said before, I wouldn't send my child to an overnight (or even to play on her own) in the home of anyone I didn't fully trust. But the wierdness the OP experienced because she's the stepmom and the other mom didn't see her as "counting" -- that's just bizarre.

Also, since most parents are married or in some kind of couples relationship -- I guess people who are leery of any home where there's a male present won't be sending their children on many playdates or overnights. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.

Like I said, I have to feel total trust, which means my 7yo currently just plays in yards where I can see her, when she's out playing in the neighborhood. She doesn't go in houses. I've noticed quite a few other parents have the same rule.
post #63 of 120
Also, one thing I've heard of, which I know I'll need to be wary of if anything ever happens to my dh, is that there are men who seek out relationships with single moms in order to get to their children.

The mothers often see these men as a real godsend, especially if their children don't have good relationships (or any relationships) with their own dads, because the new boyfriend takes such an interest in the children, often offering to take the kids to the park and other places so Mom can rest and have some time to herself.

I think it's a hard dilemma for any single mama who still wants a man in her life. Because of course you want someone who's going to love your kids and build a good relationship with them. So it's kind of sad to be suspect of any man who "shows too much interest in the kids."

I think some of my friends are wise, who in the early phase of getting to know a man, don't bring him around their kids. And I suppose it's easier on the kids in general, to protect them from potentially bonding with someone who's not likely to be around for the long haul.
post #64 of 120
Jumping in late.

I thought the OP was the father's live in girlfriend? Rather than the child's stepmother, I mean? I know many people would find that an objectionable home environment for their child to be exposed to, whether that be right or wrong.

I wonder if this is the real issue?
post #65 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
And, if she's the type who will tell you that there won't be any men there, because she thinks you're "paranoid", and then has her creepy boyfriend over...your trust is still placed with the wrong person, and your child still ends up sexually abused. I don't see how it matters who the actual perp is, once the child's been abused.
I'm not sure what you mean. If a woman provides access to a child for an abuser, she is not the perp. He is still the perp. She still sucks though, big time.

I don't leave my child with men who don't get this issue and whom I don't trust, or with women who minimize the importance of protecting children.
post #66 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
I see your point -- but as far as trustworthiness goes, it's kind of the same quality whether you're looking at a man or a woman.
Again, we are talking about men who perp vs. women who help men perp. Not the same thing, so no it's not the same among women and men.

Quote:
But I guess some of the signs might be different. An untrustworthy woman would be one who shows signs of being male-needy. I'm not sure what signs I'd look for to identify an untrustworthy man. What would you look for, thismama?
It is a highly individual thing. It's kind of a vibe. I don't just look for the absence of a suspicious vibe, but the presence of a positive one.

The men I trust IRL all are gentle men who are progressive parents, who believe in non-violence and who are pro-feminist both in philosophy and action. (DD's dad is imperfect in the 'action' bit ). They also respect psychotherapeutic processes and understand that child sexual abuse leaves children with big trauma to work through. In short, they 'get it.'

I judge each as they come, basically. But, I do judge. Wish I didn't have to think about it.
post #67 of 120
Yeah, I certainly wouldn't trust one of my friend's husbands. Both my friend and her husband were sexually abused as children -- and one day he was trying to say that her abuse didn't hurt her like his hurt him. He insisted that little girls "like that kind of thing," and tried to get her to "admit" she really enjoyed it. :That's just sick, sick, sick.

And no, he's certainly not pro-feminist -- though he doesn't have a problem with a woman making most or all of the money. He says women are built to be able to work harder than men: "There's no way a man could work all day (outside the home), and then come home and change diapers -- but for some reason a woman can."

I think he's sending pretty strong warning signals that he thinks females are made to take abuse -- and even like it.:
post #68 of 120
Also, if a dad insists his daughters have to wear their hair a certain way -- i.e., they have to have long hair, even if they want it shorter, that seems kind of sick.

I'm not talking about parents having a preference for their daughters' (or sons') hair to be long (or short), and keeping it that way when the children are happy with it, too, or are too young to express a preference one way or the other.

But if a girl wants her hair short and Mom or Dad don't "allow" it -- that seems over-controlling to me ... and in the case of the Dad, almost like he perceives his daughters as his "property" that he wants to look a certain way.

When I was involved with our church youth group years ago, one teen said she hated when her dad smacked her on the butt, and when she told him not to he said, "It's MY butt 'til you're married." That kind of weirded me out.
post #69 of 120
Yeah, mammal_mama, those dads you mention would definitely be off my list. Stories like this bring some understanding of why this is still such a common problem.
post #70 of 120
I think the thing I find most strange about the situation in the OP is that, if these things are such a big deal to the other mom-why didn't she ask the questions BEFORE her daughter went over the first time? It doesn't seem like it would be very out of the ordinary to ask who will be present before sending you kid to someones home, you know?
post #71 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemoremom View Post
I think the thing I find most strange about the situation in the OP is that, if these things are such a big deal to the other mom-why didn't she ask the questions BEFORE her daughter went over the first time?
Yes. Truth is, unsupervised older brothers and their friends probably represent the greatest risk of sexual abuse for a young child. If she's sending her five year old over to a house full of bored teenaged boys, that's far more worrisome than a single father, in my mind. But she would have no way of knowing any of that since she apparently didn't check out the situation before sending her kid over to play.
post #72 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post
Yes. Truth is, unsupervised older brothers and their friends probably represent the greatest risk of sexual abuse for a young child. If she's sending her five year old over to a house full of bored teenaged boys, that's far more worrisome than a single father, in my mind. But she would have no way of knowing any of that since she apparently didn't check out the situation before sending her kid over to play.

Very interesting thread. Thought provoking, as the mom of a DD.

I know I am (in general) overly-cautious. But, I have to side with the thismama camp...mainly because there is no going back. IF something happens, it can never be undone and I could never forgive myself for "letting" it happen.

BUT, I'm not so sure I agree with this post. I would use extreme caution with either situation, if I didn't know the families very well. Overall, I still feel the one-on-one (predator/prey) scenario is more dangerous. The chance of secrets and lies staying hidden increases. I would hope, in a group of 5 teenage boys...one or two would have the common sense and good character to stop the rest.

And, I believe the hard facts state that males are FAR more likely to be the abuser in any situation. And, if a female is around "letting" it happen or aiding in any way, she is just as guilty, IMO. I think of it like homicide cases. Often the trigger man gets the same punishment as his accomplice who just stood by and held the door.
post #73 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by devster4fun View Post
BUT, I'm not so sure I agree with this post. I would use extreme caution with either situation, if I didn't know the families very well. Overall, I still feel the one-on-one (predator/prey) scenario is more dangerous. The chance of secrets and lies staying hidden increases. I would hope, in a group of 5 teenage boys...one or two would have the common sense and good character to stop the rest.
I see your point -- but then, I've heard of groups of teens doing more horrid things than most in the group would have been capable of doing individually. So, depending on the composition of the group, there might be safety in numbers, or there might be more lines crossed because "everybody's doing it."

But I agree that it's generally true that the one-on-one situation is more dangerous. That's why it seems so bizarre to me that many "experts" perceive a family-bed sleep situation as a potential molestation issue.

If there's a perv in the home (but hopefully there's not), I think the safer sleeping arrangement would be one where Mom, Dad, and the kids are all together. I think a molester has more one-on-one opportunities when each child has his or her own room or bed.

It's funny how little logic is sometimes used, when people outside the family are trying to evaluate risk for your family!:
post #74 of 120
Wow OP! That's crazy. At points 1 and 2, I kinda understood, though I still thought that lady was being kinda wierd. But point 3? Makes no sense at all. None. Geez, how illogical can one woman be?
Sorry you and your dp had to deal with that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
It is not 'like a witchhunt,' and as a Pagan I am offended at the analogy.
Hey, I didn't know that. Hi there

I believe that even my dp (male) would screen an unknown man a little more carefully than a woman. But then, I imagine he'd screen both very well!
post #75 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I'm not sure what you mean. If a woman provides access to a child for an abuser, she is not the perp. He is still the perp. She still sucks though, big time.

I don't leave my child with men who don't get this issue and whom I don't trust, or with women who minimize the importance of protecting children.
I know a woman who seems to "get this issue", yet would happily tell you that she will be the only one home, and will them invite her boyfriend over if she wants the company. She's not deliberately providing access to a child for an abuser - he may not be an abuser. But, she would feel no hesitation about lying to another mom if that meant the kids would get their sleepover. She has the "my man would never do that" attitude, but she wouldn't tell another mom that...she'd just pretend he wouldn't be there.

So, my point is that putting the men through an extra screening wouldn't do anything to a protect a child, if the woman involved happened to be of this type. If the boyfriend is an abuser (and she is in the category of single mom of small children, so it's not statistically unlikely that a pervert would target her and her kids), another mom could easily leave their kids with him without even knowing she was doing so...because she trusted the woman. The woman is presumed not to need "extra screening", but that leaves the children wide open to potential abuse.

No - she wouldn't be the perp. I thought the point was to protect the kids from abuse. If so, it doesn't matter who the perp actually is - it matters whether the child is exposed to said perp...and trusting this particular woman could easily leave a child in that situation.
post #76 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
But if a girl wants her hair short and Mom or Dad don't "allow" it -- that seems over-controlling to me ... and in the case of the Dad, almost like he perceives his daughters as his "property" that he wants to look a certain way.
Why the dad? Why is it okay for a mom to dictate her daughter's appearance, and force her into a mold she's not comfortable with? I get just as much sense of ownership out of that as I do with a dad. I find parents of either gender who have that much emotional investment in their children's appearances a little "off", to be honest. (It still bothers me less than a woman who will circ with the stated reason that she wants her son to have "a pretty penis", though.)

Quote:
When I was involved with our church youth group years ago, one teen said she hated when her dad smacked her on the butt, and when she told him not to he said, "It's MY butt 'til you're married." That kind of weirded me out.
That doesn't "kind of" weird me out. That's downright creepy.
post #77 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by devster4fun View Post
Very interesting thread. Thought provoking, as the mom of a DD.
Why the mom of a dd? Lots of little boys are sexually abused, as well.
post #78 of 120
op- This type of garbage is pretty normal, from what I can tell. I'm sorry your stepdaughter has to be affected by it.
The sexism in this thread alone is:.
post #79 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Why the mom of a dd? Lots of little boys are sexually abused, as well.
I am an "older" 1st time Mom and never really thought about these issues before now.

Just speaking for myself...why it is thought provoking for ME. I realize boys are abused, too.
post #80 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I know a woman who seems to "get this issue", yet would happily tell you that she will be the only one home, and will them invite her boyfriend over if she wants the company. She's not deliberately providing access to a child for an abuser - he may not be an abuser. But, she would feel no hesitation about lying to another mom if that meant the kids would get their sleepover. She has the "my man would never do that" attitude, but she wouldn't tell another mom that...she'd just pretend he wouldn't be there.
Well, my kid doesn't sleep over anywhere anyway. And if that happened, she would tell me about it, and that would be the last time she went over there, if I did not know and feel comfortable with the boyfriend.

I keep closer tabs on my kid's social life than that, so I can't really see that happening. At least not at this age.
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