CIO: Sure Lookin' Good Right Now! - Page 4

[catchthewind]

I can't look into my baby's face when she's crying and not do everything I can to make her feel better, even if it's just holding her and telling her how much I love her. I have a friend who brags that she sleep-trained her babies at 6 weeks old, and uses this fact in any parenting discussion as if it makes her the better parent and everyone should listen to her. It makes me want to :Puke .

Personally, I don't think cio ever really works, even when it does, if you kwim? I don't think the baby stops being hungry, scared, alone. He/she just gives up on trying to find comfort. Sometimes I wonder which is worse, the baby left to cry who still believes someone might come, or the baby who has given up. If my baby is hungry, scared, etc I want to know about it.

I've also read babies left to cio often don't learn to soothe themselves, they have a favorite toy or blanket they need to get to sleep, rather than their parents. There was a story in our local news about a girl who survived a plane crash in her carseat. When she was found, she didn't ask for her parents (who hadn't been on the plane), she just wanted her teddy. Reading that made me sad.

[seoul_mama]

Originally Posted by catchthewind

I've also read babies left to cio often don't learn to soothe themselves, they have a favorite toy or blanket they need to get to sleep, rather than their parents. There was a story in our local news about a girl who survived a plane crash in her carseat. When she was found, she didn't ask for her parents (who hadn't been on the plane), she just wanted her teddy. Reading that made me sad.

So sad!!!

Your post made me think about transitional objects... in psychology, children who take transitional objects (blankets, etc) are seen as healthy. That is, movement away from parental dependence is healthful. As a side note, I have a lot of problems with psychology. Anyhow, it seems that the promotion of transitional objects occured in tandem with the proliferation of sleep training. I wonder if there is a connection... So perhaps by prematurely separating child from parent, this leads to anxiety and stress in which the child must rely on a transitional object in order to be soothed. Rather than addressing the consequences of premature separation, researchers of psychology, sociology, and the like interpreted movement from parental object to inanimate object as a necessary developmental milestone. I'll stop here, be I'm just thinking out loud now. OK I'm off to do some research on the history of transitional objects...

[AlbertaJes]

Originally Posted by seoul_mama

What's the deal here. Do I have a lying sister and friend?

My DH can't hear the baby monitor when he's sleeping because he's conditioned himself not to need to. I hear it and tend to DD. As far as he knows (besides the fact that she's in bed with us in the morning), she never woke up or cried at all during the night. Maybe those moms have done the same thing.

Originally Posted by catchthewind

There was a story in our local news about a girl who survived a plane crash in her carseat. When she was found, she didn't ask for her parents (who hadn't been on the plane), she just wanted her teddy. Reading that made me sad.

I'd noticed that too.

[catchthewind]

Originally Posted by seoul_mama

Anyhow, it seems that the promotion of transitional objects occured in tandem with the proliferation of sleep training. I wonder if there is a connection... So perhaps by prematurely separating child from parent, this leads to anxiety and stress in which the child must rely on a transitional object in order to be soothed. Rather than addressing the consequences of premature separation, researchers of psychology, sociology, and the like interpreted movement from parental object to inanimate object as a necessary developmental milestone.

This is interesting. I always wonder how much of society's materialism and reliance on objects can be traced to parents who cio.

AlbertaJes, I love the quote in your sig. It's very apropos in this discussion.

[georgia]

Originally Posted by seoul_mama

I really appreciate this. I hope you feel better soon!

Thanks, seoul mama I still feel yucky, but tonight at least one of my little ones was there to pat me until she fell asleep. That helped me feel better It's rare for me to be alone in a bed--it's kinda depressing I wasn't even able to enjoy it

I was curious if you've ever read this article that's stickied up at the top of the forum? It's a real confidence booster, IMO. You seem like a really caring and thoughtful mama. I hope that sleeping stuff starts getting easier for y'all. I know how hard it is when those close to us (and who are doing things very differently) seem to have it so easy while we're temporarily struggling.

Sorry to have rambled. Sweet dreams, all

[monkeybum]

Great thread

Sooooo glad I found this thread tonight. It's made me remember why I don't/shouldn't CIO. I have been so frustrated this week with the sleeping thing (I have a 7 month old and a 3 1/2 yo). The 7 month old has not been sleeping well suddenly. I decided just tonight to CIO - this was it, I'd had it, I wasn't going through this anymore...I was just going to let my baby cry...ok, that lasted about 30 seconds. Just couldn't do it.

The look on his face, the fear, the sadness, the helplessness. My heart cracked in half that I had even contemplated it. Your gut tells you it's wrong when you are trying to do it, and your mommy instinct says "go to your baby, soothe your baby".

I wanted this baby sooo much, I feel so lucky and blessed to have him here with me. Why would I leave him to suffer when I can so easily comfort him? Sometimes when I'm at the end of my rope I ask myself, if he were gone tomorrow, if this were your last night with him, how would you spend it? I always answer (to myself ) I would hold him, snuggle and cuddle him all night. And that's what I do b/c you never know when your last day will be.

Okay, so that doesn't necessarily make you less sleep deprived...but what I can share is that is DOES get easier, and I think avoiding CIO helps that. All my CIO friends' kids - close in age to my nearly 4 year old - are always up, at least once a week they are up crying in the night.

My son - nearly 4 as mentioned - is a FANTASTIC sleeper. We coslept and night-nursed, he woke up all the time to nurse, didn't sleep more than about 3hrs at a time for the first 2 years of his life. Just after his 2nd b-day, we put a toddler bed next to ours and I nursed him to sleep on that. He slept there all night, through the night - like I'm talking 10-12 hours straight (remember he'd never gone longer than 3 hrs before!) from that very first night, and has ever since. That was almost 2 years ago. He NEVER wakes up at night, or if he does, he just gets himself a drink of water off the bedside table and goes right back to sleep. So I think he just needed to be away from the boob to stay asleep.

Interestingly, just after his 3rd bday, he was quite sick and so I brought him back in bed with us so I could keep a close eye on him in the night (i.e. hear him breathing all night). He continued to sleep through the night and has coslept in our bed for the last year. So it just took a short time of that additional distance to break the night-nursing cycle.

With the new baby going through the "I must crawl/play/stand at 3am and nurse all night long" thing right now, I keep trying to remind myself of how easy that transition was with my first and what a great sleeper he is now. I'll get there with #2 eventually, I just know it! :

Now, my big problem is that I still nurse my nearly 4 year old to sleep...it's kind of driving me nuts, even though it works like a charm - gets him to sleep in about 30 seconds even after he's been jumping on the bed or is wired on chocolate...hard to give up those lazy bedtime rituals if they still work!

Kathy.

[almadianna]

i am late to the party here but i want to add my 2 pennies here.
We made these children, we carried them for 9 months in our bodies and labored with the pain of childbirth for them.
Why would we purposely let them suffer like this? How can anyone think that it is natural or even good for their children?
I dont care if people say it works "just fine" I know it doesnt because even if they do sleep through the night they have been hurt in the process, I dont know how any parent could be ok with this.

[gurglebaby]

I have been feeling sorry for myself all day today and then I read this thread. Thank God for MDC. I think we just need to know that we're not the only ones in the world that don't get sleep. ALL of my friends CIO and think I'm crazy so it just felt so good to come here and feel the love.

I cried when I read the stories of the poor babies that are made to CIO so hard that they vomit. It's so hard to hear. To think that this is the way most babies in North America are put to sleep just breaks my heart.

I was so frustrated today and now I feel like I can do anything and live with no sleep forever if that means my ds is happy, secure, and knows that he's loved.

Thank you so much everyone for sharing your stories. Hugs to all the mama's out there APing.

[Astromom]

This was really beautiful. Thank you for posting this! I needed to read it.

Originally Posted by SuenCA

*These rough nights really do pass way faster than you can ever imagine. I look at my oldest with his gangly body, all elbows and knees and bruises and scrapes and stinky feet from sports, and wonder where that small baby went....the one who snuggled with me all night. Both of my boys go to sleep on their own after stories and spend most of the night in their own beds---although my husband and I love it when they crawl into our bed with us. The sleepless nights from their infancies are a distant, fuzzy memory. So, as painful as the sleepless nights are, take snapshots in your mind of how your child looks sleeping next to you or in your arms. There truly is nothing more precious than a small child asleep with you. Try to remember how it feels to have their small warm bodies nestled up to yours. Hold your babies' hands and nuzzle their soft head because someday soon, you, too, will have forgotten how tired you are today.

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by seoul_mama

What's the deal here. Do I have a lying sister and friend? Are their babies rare exceptions? My ds is teething again - his upper molars and canines are coming in, which makes him cranky and, naturally, up a lot at night.

Again, I'm not advocating cio. it just seems like every cio practicing person I know thinks it's a great thing and has no complaints - I just wonder if they're not being honest....

They're not lying, they're just ignorant. They're assuming that because their child doesn't cry loud enough to wake them at night (because they've taught them it's futile), that they're not sitting up, looking around, playing with teddy, etc.

If you want an impartial statement on his, read Ferber's book - he says the point of CIO is not to stop them waking during the night, because everyone wakes during the night, but to get them to not disturb you when they do it.

[maiat]

Originally Posted by aprilv

needs that are not met do not disappear, they just reappear later-- better a sleepless baby than an angry teen.

When I got pregnant my aunt said to me "Just don't ever let her sleep with you! With my kids, I just put earplugs in and closed the door." She's in therapy with her 23 yo daughter now. The daughter is depressed and says she's always felt that her mother didn't love her. How sad. That damage really doesn't get undone.

[swampangel]

Originally Posted by seoul_mama

Short answer:

Yes.

Long answer:
As a new mom still adjusting to motherhood, as well as noticing that my own practices are not supported by the broader culture, I cannot help but to waiver at times with some of my parenting decisions. At the very core, I know that I am the expert of my baby and that my practices follow my intuitions. BUT, I would be dishonest if I didn't admit that I question myself as a parent, or that I am vulnerable to others who insist that their "methods" are better. Afterall, their methods tend to be emblematic of dominant mainstream practices; and to be completely impervious to this is unrealistic - imo.

So yes, it matters. When I am pressured to stop bfing and cosleeping and when I am told that other practices, such as cio is "much better" I want to know what is so appealing about practices outside of mine. When one method is touted as fail-proof, I become curious. When I see that others hold their viewpoints rigidly, I want to learn more about why. Because ultimately, even though there may be a difference in worldviews, there might still be something for me to learn.

I just wanted to say that I totally see why you're wanting to know and understand more. Your post makes a lot of sense. And what a thoughtful mama you are. It is so hard to be alone in your choices with so many opposing parenting viewpoints surrounding you. It's not easy. I know the very few friends I have IRL who CIO make me question what the heck I'm doing from time to time when I'm so sleep deprived I shouldn't be driving my car!

Originally Posted by dawncayden

Often when parents use CIO and it 'works' with their babies, soon have 3, 4...7 year olds that hate to go to sleep and associate bad feelings with going into their beds and being left to fend for themselves.
This is when you often get the 'can I have another glass of water...no the blue cup, I need the light on, I want another hug...' They just don't want you to leave.

We have never CIO and my son LOVES bedtime, he loves to go to sleep, and sure he still wakes often to nurse but I see his willingness to go to bed as proof that I'm doing the right thing.
When I ask him at night 'is it sleepy time?' he always nds his head and smiles

You know, that's our story too. My oldest (now nearly 5) has NO problems at all going to sleep and he sleeps like a rock. In the early years with him I never thought this would be possible. So there is definitely hope! He comes into our bed anytime he wants to and that usually goes in phases for him. Some nights he's in his bed all night, some nights in ours. It just depends. I used to wonder why he never found a "lovey" like so many kids I know but I like your explanation of his perhaps not needing to. What a nice thought...he didn't have to replace the loving comfort of his parents with an inanimate object. Very cool.

Originally Posted by jennybean0722

Anyway, children are snowflakes. They are all so different and need to be parented in different ways (kindly!). This is what worked for us...good luck!

That is beautiful...I love the metaphor of children as snowflakes...so true.

Originally Posted by catchthewind

I've also read babies left to cio often don't learn to soothe themselves, they have a favorite toy or blanket they need to get to sleep, rather than their parents. There was a story in our local news about a girl who survived a plane crash in her carseat. When she was found, she didn't ask for her parents (who hadn't been on the plane), she just wanted her teddy. Reading that made me sad.

Oh god that's sad.

[allfrog68]

No CIO worked for me

I was going to another board and then spotted this. My daughter is now 2.75 yo. I have to say that she weaned at 8 mo (somewhat mutual) so it is a different situation. I think she didn't sleep through the night until 18 months. Did a month of that then started waking again, think a lot has to do w/ the ambient temperature. She is now sleeping again through the night for past 3 months. I work FT so I look at the time w/ my daughter as extra bonding time. I won't ever regret the decision I made not to do CIO. I just knew it wasn't the right thing to do in my situation.

I can't relate to BFing at night at this age but do believe things will get easier sooner rather than later.

[nolansmummy]

when my ds was little he wasn't sleepin and i was a new momma and had no real advice from other parents but there was one day i was so tired and fed up i tried to do cio, my dh hated it, i hated it , i lasted oh about 30 seconds literally. I couldn't hear him crying for me.. his momma...and just ignore it. How can you ignore a screaming baby crying anyway. My son co slept until just recently. Now he falls asleep on our bed and we move him to his bed...My dd sleeps with us, and if she is crying its because something is wrong...its my job to protect her,,,i made the decision to bring my children into the world and it is my job to protect them and keep them happy and safe this is way more important to me than getting 8 hours of sleep.
I also think that these people who say their babies sleep thru the night either had many sleepless nights..training their babies to cry themselves to sleep, or else they just don't hear the cries.
I hate when people think their chiildren are just huge inconveniences out to ruin their perfect lives.

[AlbertaJes]

Originally Posted by catchthewind

AlbertaJes, I love the quote in your sig. It's very apropos in this discussion.

Thanks. I actually put that there in semi-retaliation for an arguement I got into elsewhere about CIO. It's quite fitting even right now for me. My DD has recently decided that she doesn't want me to help her go to sleep. Doesn't even want me in the room. We only co-sleep part time, she sleeps in her own bed until after I go to bed. I used to get to rock her to sleep, and I miss it. Obviously this is what she's ready for, but I wasn't ready. At least she's still cuddly after she's asleep and during the day.

[seoul_mama]

Originally Posted by georgia

Thanks, seoul mama I still feel yucky, but tonight at least one of my little ones was there to pat me until she fell asleep. That helped me feel better It's rare for me to be alone in a bed--it's kinda depressing I wasn't even able to enjoy it

I was curious if you've ever read this article that's stickied up at the top of the forum? It's a real confidence booster, IMO. You seem like a really caring and thoughtful mama. I hope that sleeping stuff starts getting easier for y'all. I know how hard it is when those close to us (and who are doing things very differently) seem to have it so easy while we're temporarily struggling.

Sorry to have rambled. Sweet dreams, all

I love the article and I really do need to read it more often bc it's so validating!

So I just had a random thought... I think I might be feeling vulnerable about my parenting choices bc the holidays are coming up. I know for many, this is a joyous time, but for me it means wearing my extra thick suit of armor, and going into battle with family (my own and ILs). Anyone watch Seinfeld? Well, the Costanzas are like my family, except a lot more biting and confrontational, and not as funny. So I'm not looking forward to hearing things like, "you need to cut him off already" (re: breastfeeding) or "your milk doesn't have sufficient nutrients at this point" or "you're letting your baby manipulate you" or "you're the one that needs to take control. don't let your baby wake you up. he's old enough" and on and on and on..... Sometimes I'm amazed and wonder how is it possible that something that seems so right, natural, intuitive, and instinctive seem so weird, abnormal, and off-putting to others. It's one thing to deal with such comments over the phone, but to deal with them face to face??? Awful!

This thread has been incredibly helpful... I value all of your insights and feel very validated. I couldn't and wouldn't ever cio... i wouldn't even know how to do it with a cosleeping/bfing arrangment.

[ABrez]

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...nik/Marvin.gif nak

[waiflywaif]

I just want to say for those who are struggling that not cosleeping is not the same as CIO. Everyone will do what works for them, but I feel like threads like this sometimes make it sound like there is no middle ground.

We have never co-slept except on vacation. My daughter doesn't sleep well unless she's in her own bed. But we've NEVER done CIO either. No way could I ever do that. When she was a baby, I ALWAYS went to her every time she cried. Depending on the level of distress, I'd either pat her or sing to her, or sometimes if she was having big trouble I would rock her back to sleep. Then she would happily go back in the crib. Now she's almost 5, a fantastic sleeper, goes happily to bed and sleeps all night.

Just wanted a different perspective as sometimes it feels on this board like if you don't co-sleep you must be all into CIO. Not true.

[seoul_mama]

Originally Posted by waiflywaif

I just want to say for those who are struggling that not cosleeping is not the same as CIO. Everyone will do what works for them, but I feel like threads like this sometimes make it sound like there is no middle ground.

We have never co-slept except on vacation. My daughter doesn't sleep well unless she's in her own bed. But we've NEVER done CIO either. No way could I ever do that. When she was a baby, I ALWAYS went to her every time she cried. Depending on the level of distress, I'd either pat her or sing to her, or sometimes if she was having big trouble I would rock her back to sleep. Then she would happily go back in the crib. Now she's almost 5, a fantastic sleeper, goes happily to bed and sleeps all night.

Just wanted a different perspective as sometimes it feels on this board like if you don't co-sleep you must be all into CIO. Not true.

Thank you for this; and what a thoughtful reminder of the varied ways we all parent. As I mentioned before, I wouldn't cio, but if I did I wouldn't even know how to do it with a cosleeping arrangement. It's unfair to make generalizations that non-cosleepers are also into cio. I think it's great that you can share this - I definitely value exploring multiple worldviews and giving each perpsective a fair chance.

[mamahart]

I started reading at post #51 but wanted to chime in... the whole concept of transitional objects is interesting..both my kids have always had me...pretty much always. So neither one of them has an object they are attached to consistently....hmmm- maybe I'll figure out a poll.
I think you have heard it all, but looking at my 10 yr old who has such different needs makes it easier with the littler guy...AND if you ask children what they would do...they will always go to a crying baby, my DD's friends cannot even imagine not helping a crying baby. I think this is also interesting since they have no "theory" to rely on.