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For those of you considering circumcision... - Page 3

post #41 of 68
pax- im so sorry you have been hurt. you have every right to be angry and sad and to grieve your loss. i do hope you find peace.

i have to say, your story has touched my heart. i nearly cried when i read that your mother apologized to you. it must mean so much to you to have her say that.
post #42 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktbug View Post
I lost the circ debate with my husband and was coerced into signing the release (I was on narcotics). Not a day goes by that I don't regret it. Getting a letter like the one you wrote your mom is my worst fear, and if I got one like that I'd more than likely kill myself. Just so you know.

This is not likely to happen to you if you let him know how much you regret your actions and do not allow any future sons to be circumcised. When he's older, you can tell him about foreskin restoration.
By the way, Marilyn Milos, the founder of NOCIRC, has three circumcised sons! She had them back in the 70's, and at the time, she thought it was just a routine procedure. Then she went back to nursing school and witnessed a circumcision. She was horrified. She now has intact grandsons!
post #43 of 68
While I absolutely agree with you on the circumcision issue, an email like that from my son would leave me so... upset isn't even the word... I don't even know what to say. I truly believe that parents back then made the choice they did out of love. The doctors tricked them into believing that circumcision was best. It was and is not. But they didn't know that, back then most parents believed that doctor's word was like law, it was the truth and you had to do what they said. Your mom cannot go back and undid what was done. And the way you approached it probably devestated her. I just feel there would be far better ways for a son to talk to his mother about something like this. They do need to realize your anger over the issue, but you also need to be a bit more gentle to your mother if she was for the most part, a wonderful mother. We all make mistakes. Thank goodness, my son is intact, but I'm sure I'll make other mistakes. I only hope he'll be wise enough to see that none of us are perfect and that I do truly love him more than anything else in this world and only made the decisions I did out of that love.

I do hope you're able to find a way to relieve your anger on the subject. Maybe restoration and talking to other mothers about not making the same mistake for their son would help.
post #44 of 68
I'm going to have to echo what others have said.

As parents, we agonize over every decision we make with regards to our children. The responsibility of making decisions for our babies, who cannot do it themselves, is staggering. Every day I wonder what stupid thing I am going to do (or have already done) that will mess up my children.

But we do the best we can with the information we have.

I am so sorry for what was done to you. It was wrong, and I completely understand your anger. You have a right to it. I just hope that you will be able to recognize that your mom, regardless of mistakes she has made, loves you as much as you obviously love her.

I live with the hope that a day will come when people stop believing that it is okay to do this to children, and I hope that others will read your story and think twice about what they are doing to their sons.
post #45 of 68
Pax, I'm sorry that you were circumcised.

I circumcised my first son; I believed the nonsense. I left my second son intact, because I knew better then.

I can't explain to you how much it pains me to know what I did to and took from my son. I've seen videos of circs and heard babies cry during it, and each time I shed tears for my little boy who endured that all alone so young. I wish I could take it back, but I can't.

I will tell my son one day what was done and why. I will apologize. I'll offer to pay for restoration. That's not enough, I know, but I hope it will earn his understanding and forgiveness.

Please be more gentle when talking to your mother about this in the future. Please remember she is probably hurting, too, knowing that you're in pain because of her and your father's choice.

If I received emails like that from my son I would be heartbroken. I would tell him he's right, and I'm sorry. But I hope very much that my son will be gentle with me about it.
post #46 of 68
I wish that all the moms that I know that are all about circ would read this, might make them reconsider. I am so GLAD that i left e intact. And to the women who blamed the early eighties 'trend', my bro was left intact cause my mom saw through the bullshit and when she was in nursing school and just saw how they are straped down she knew how wrong it is. Just cause everyone else does it doesn't make it right.
post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffer23 View Post
I truly believe that parents back then made the choice they did out of love. The doctors tricked them into believing that circumcision was best. It was and is not. But they didn't know that, back then most parents believed that doctor's word was like law, it was the truth and you had to do what they said. Your mom cannot go back and undid what was done.
His mother WAS a doctor.
post #48 of 68

I'm so sorry...

You have every right in the world to mourn your loss

How old are you? If you're 18, it a PERFECT time to sue the doctor/hospital that had done it to you. There are few lawers out there who can help...
post #49 of 68
I also wanted to say that I am so, so sorry. No one had the right to cut any part of your body without reason and without your consent.

I am glad that your mother has apologized. I hope that you are both able to work through this issue in your relationship.

I, also, wish that parents out there who talk about circumcision as their 'parental choice' could read your words and realise that they are talking about altering someone else's body - their child's body, not their own.

And their child will have an opinion about his circumcision when he is older - and his opinion is the only one that is important, so it should have been his choice.

For those moms here who circed in ignorance, and now regret it, I'm going to bump the 'letter to a regretful mother' thread - I think that might also be helpful.

The anger that men can feel when they realise what circumcision has taken from them is legitimate - I can well imagine how I would feel if I realised that I had been cut at birth and that the most sensitive part of my genitals were gone and I would never experience sex the way it was intended.

This anger makes the point better than any other words could what we all say here - that circumcision is NOT a parental choice. It is a choice that belongs ONLY to the owner of the penis in question.

For parents who have made that choice in the past before you realised the damage caused by circumcision - please do read the Letter to a Regretful Mother - if you explain to your son what happened, why and apologise, I am sure that he will forgive you and you will both be able to move on.
post #50 of 68
Not too many threads address the psychological impact of circumcision the way this one has. It is because of the empathy exhibited by all the posters here that this forum is a not only a safe place, but a healing place.

Circumcision has been a huge issue for me since the age of six when I realised that I had been "modified". I have felt anger, but much more , a feeling of HURT. I feel sure that the apology from his mother, and acknowlegement of the "wrong" will help PAX heal.

Personaly I find it therapeutic to come here and associate with "like minded" people. It is good to talk . It is even better to educate others. And it is positively uplifting when one can change a mind and save a baby boy .

Unfortunately we can not change the past. What is "done" is "done". However we can shape the future. I know first hand the terrible feeling of regret that those mothers here feel for allowing a son to be circumcised. My son was born in the '80s and I was adamant that would keep his foreskin. Sadly , at the age of 11, he "had to be circumcised" - for phimosis , discovered following an infection. There was no internet then, and no way to get information. I did fight for his genital integrity against the urologist (and DW, who believed in him), but in hindsight, not hard enough. From what I have learned on www.cirp.org and other sites, I would never let it happen today. We would find other ways to preserve his foreskin. We have talked about it and I have apologised many times. He is o.k. with it. He is now a father with an adorable little DD, and he has assured me that should he have a son, he will remain intact.

Intactivism heals.

I also believe that for those men who feel harmed by circumcision , restoration would help heal the wound. It will not restore the full function of a real foreskin, but, in the words of Jim Bigelow (author of "The joy of uncircumcising") , "it helps a man feel whole".
post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommiska View Post
I, also, wish that parents out there who talk about circumcision as their 'parental choice' could read your words and realise that they are talking about altering someone else's body - their child's body, not their own.

And their child will have an opinion about his circumcision when he is older - and his opinion is the only one that is important, so it should have been his choice.
That is a really, really good point.
post #52 of 68
Thread Starter 
Dear Randy:

I'm your Mom, and I'm always going to love you. Nothing you can say or do can change that. I hope that you can get some peace and closure. At some point you need to move on. Life is what it is, and life is not forever.

In any case, I am here and I will remain here for you.

Love,

Mom
post #53 of 68
Pax, I'm sorry for all the pain you are going thru.
post #54 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAXIMPERIA View Post
Dear Randy:

I'm your Mom, and I'm always going to love you. Nothing you can say or do can change that. I hope that you can get some peace and closure. At some point you need to move on. Life is what it is, and life is not forever.

In any case, I am here and I will remain here for you.

Love,

Mom
Clearly, she doesn't believe that she did anything wrong.
post #55 of 68
Thread Starter 
Mom,

I remember when we went to the Eastern State Penitentiary for Halloween with Kel***. "Monsters Be Good!!". What a time! I remember when we went to Ireland to have our family reunion, and we crashed that wedding and danced together on the stage for an hour. I remember when I lost my license and you were willing to drive down 70 miles to pick me up. And then there was that time that I got arrested.

When my laptop got stolen, who helped me get another one? When I needed someone to listen, who was always there for me? I was bitter that you were never home when I was young, but you worked like heck to pay the bills. When I needed a place to live, who let me stay at her house? There was that time that my diapers were wet, when I wouldn't eat my broccoli, when I got into a fight with that kid in grade school, when I failed my algebra exam...

There is nothing that can take away the times that we've had together. You're not perfect, but neither am I. Your love means everything to me. The world would be a cold and dark place without it.

You once said that all love is conditional. There is nothing that could possibly make me love you any less-- no matter how angry I get in one night, know that I will always be there for you.

You once said after September 11th that you wanted to join the military. I asked what would happen if you died, and you said that we would cry at first, but we would eventually get over it. I cried so hard-- nothing could be further from the truth. There is no one in the world that could ever take your place. I will love you forever, no matter what I say : ) I have no doubt that Kel*** and A** do too. Don't ever forget that...

Randy

http://www.courtroomblog.com/myspace/music/breathe.mp3

"Love is a temporary madness. It erupts like an earthquake and then subsides. And when it subsides you have to make a decision. You have to work out whether your roots have become so entwined together that it is inconceivable that you should ever part. Because this is what love is. Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the promulgation of promises of eternal passion. That is just being "in love" which any of us can convince ourselves we are.

Love itself is what is left over when being in love has burned away, and this is both an art and a fortunate accident. Your mother and I had it, we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two."
post #56 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papai View Post
Clearly, she doesn't believe that she did anything wrong.
post #57 of 68
PAX,

It has been emotional reading through your posts and witnessing your powerful emotions dealing with your circumcision and your mother. I am so sorry you were hurt, are hurting, and I wish you comfort as you experience and cope with your pain. I hope your pursuit of manual restoration helps alleviate your suffering.

As a mom with two circumcised sons and deep regret and sadness for the mistakes I have made, I am so sorry for the pain you feel and endure.

The quote at the end of your last message is beautiful, btw.
post #58 of 68
I'm sorry you were circumcised. I agree that it's nothing more than legal rape. Worse even, since rape doesn't normally involve amputation. I think you have every right to be mad. I also agree with people who say you need to chill and cut your mom some slack. She may be a cardiologist, but they work on hearts, not penises. She probably asked a pediatrician's advice about what to do, if she questioned it at all. Still, circumcision is stupid and totally sucks. :


Quote:
Originally Posted by PAXIMPERIA View Post
and in case you're still not convinced their is a loss, there most certianly is a loss of way over half of the sexual tissue.
Uh yeah, we all know that . Many of us have been fighting circumcision for years. There are parents on here with sons your age. No one on here needs a lecture, we're quite convinced that circumcision is damaging. Sorry to sound grumpy but you're going off on the wrong people. :
post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAXIMPERIA View Post
Dear Randy:

I'm your Mom, and I'm always going to love you. Nothing you can say or do can change that. I hope that you can get some peace and closure. At some point you need to move on. Life is what it is, and life is not forever.

In any case, I am here and I will remain here for you.

Love,

Mom
i think your mom will do whatever it takes to help you.definitely talk to her about this and she will help you find a doctor to reverse your circumcision.most parents that circumcise think at the time they did the right thing.when they find out they were wrong they will do what is in the best interest of their child like they always thought they did.
post #60 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by wytchywoman View Post
:
I made the very poor choice of circing my older son. I am so afraid that this is how he feels too. I have apologized to him through the wazoo and told him it was the biggest %&$# up I have ever made as his mother, without a doubt. I just don't know what else to do.
You've done all that is needed. My husband's parents refuse to have any regrets or even talk about it.
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