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Curious about the thoughts on selling frozen BM???? - Page 2  

post #21 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberMama View Post
To each their own.

I will be donating after this pregnancy is finished. But the only thing I will receive is reimbursement for the bags and shipping costs, if any. I'll be paying for the rental fee myself (Medela Symphony at $50+ a month).

I could never charge for BM. I can understand getting a flat fee per month or whatever. But it's not something I'd be comfortable with.
UberMama, that's a really nice thing you're planning on doing. Whoever ends up your recipient is a lucky person. (I noticed in your siggie you're a surrogate... That's ALSO a really nice thing you're doing. Words cannot even begin to express it. Wow. I'm in awe. )
post #22 of 39
Ok, so I guess the sale of BM is regulated by each state-some have laws against it, some have none. I personally think it is a bad idea to allow someone to pay per ounce because you never know what someone is adding to it to increase the volume. As MamaBear pointed out, it is important to have a relationship with your donor and a certain amount of trust.

I will be donating to my surro babe as his mom can't induce. I plan to donate it at no cost {minus supplies} but if they wanted to compensate me the most I would be comfortable with is something for my time and effort. I could not imagine charging a per ounce fee. I view it more as a gift of love, not a money making transaction.
post #23 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrishWSU View Post
Ok, so I guess the sale of BM is regulated by each state-some have laws against it, some have none. I personally think it is a bad idea to allow someone to pay per ounce because you never know what someone is adding to it to increase the volume. As MamaBear pointed out, it is important to have a relationship with your donor and a certain amount of trust.

I will be donating to my surro babe as his mom can't induce. I plan to donate it at no cost {minus supplies} but if they wanted to compensate me the most I would be comfortable with is something for my time and effort. I could not imagine charging a per ounce fee. I view it more as a gift of love, not a money making transaction.
I really do think the ideal situation, for everyone involved, is for the milk to be free (minus any expenses incurred -- and like you said, if any other compensation, time and effort is the fairest thing, and should be negotiated individually).

I think passing a law to make the sale of breastmilk by lactating moms illegal would be a horrible idea, as it would turn breastmilk into a black market commodity that only a third party (like Prolacta) could sell legally. It puts all the power into the hands of powerful corporations and turns ordinary moms into criminals. Bad, bad idea.

(Again, Trish, I am in awe at the level of love it takes to be a surrogate and then to lactate for your intended family... Amazing... You are doing such a lovely thing. )
post #24 of 39
I think Mamabear and I basically have the same concern (tell me if I am wrong MB). If we do not act responsibly by essentially regulating ourselves, government regulation will result in breastmilk sale becoming a strictly corporate enterprise. It could destroy the milk share cooperatives that currently charge a nominal fee to cover expenses and thus keep costs to everyone low since moms who need another woman's milk frequently are not able to pay much for it. The costs of shipping alone can be overwhelming for some families.

If anyone can point me to a state law regulating or forbidding the sale of breastmilk, I would really appreciate it. I have never seen one. Is there any state in which, oh say...Prolacta is not selling breastmilk? That would be interesting information to have.
post #25 of 39
I thought Prolacta sells a "fortifer" which hasn't been shown to be effective for anything?

Know what would be really cool? If there was a company that paid donors for their milk, then processed and packaged it and was able to sell it for slightly less than formula to a mass market. And programs like WIC and food stamps will cover it's purchase. Then every baby would be getting BM! I know, I know, it's a pipe dream.

I agree-I really don't see a way to regulate donors to keep the "bad" out at a state or federal level. I just hope the women who donate will continue to be honest and caring people, and the people who need BM will take basic precautions to protect their babes.
post #26 of 39
Thread Starter 

Interesting update on the ad...

I was going to update yesterday...

The mama selling her BM changed the price to "free" and I thought that was terrific given the debate on here and how it appears that free BM is optimal.

However, today I went to view her ad and noticed that has been removed. I wonder why? I wonder if was removed by admin, the original mama or if she donated it then removed the listing?

Thanks for all the insight ladies, it really offered me some points I hadn't considered. I do love it here :

LP
post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrishWSU View Post
I thought Prolacta sells a "fortifer" which hasn't been shown to be effective for anything?
You are right about this... However, Prolacta also sells other products that are human-milk-based. They sell Prolact-20, which is plain old pasteurized breast milk (The name comes from the amount of calories/ounce. Breastmilk contains, on average, 20 calories per ounce. I think the price for Prolact-20 is about $30-35/ounce... Compare that to the identical product from a non-profit HMBANA bank for $3.50/ounce and you start to see where the profit motive is huge.) Prolacta also sells Prolact-22 and Prolact-24, or at least they did in the past (they probably still do). The human milk fortifier is concentrated ten times more than the regular pasteurized milk (Prolact-20), so I'm guessing it would have 200 calories/ounce? In any case, the fortifier is not meant to be used straight. It's almost always intended to be added to regular breastmilk, in different concentrations (starting from around 20% by volume), depending on what the neonate in question needs (and all of it is guesswork at this point; there are no clinical trials that say what dosage is the most effective for what situation -- or even if it's safe, in term of osmolality, for example. Ironically, probably what they're basing their guesses on at this point is whatever concentrations formula companies have been using with their cow-milk-based fortifiers.) Prolacta's fortifier costs $184.83/ounce, and NO, it's not that expensive because it has to be, but because it CAN be.

I hope all that made sense.
post #28 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamajake View Post
I think Mamabear and I basically have the same concern (tell me if I am wrong MB). If we do not act responsibly by essentially regulating ourselves, government regulation will result in breastmilk sale becoming a strictly corporate enterprise.
You read me right, Mamajake.

Quote:
It could destroy the milk share cooperatives that currently charge a nominal fee to cover expenses and thus keep costs to everyone low since moms who need another woman's milk frequently are not able to pay much for it. The costs of shipping alone can be overwhelming for some families.
Yup. Even though the milk is free, getting it shipped is very expensive. But even as expensive as the shipping is, the cost for a recipient going through this cooperative route (like with MilkShare) is still FAR CHEAPER than any other route, even non-profit milk banks. If a recipient family had to go through a for-profit company like Prolacta, they would probably have to take out a second mortgage and be thousands of dollars in debt, and STILL not be able to pay for FOOD for their baby (many, many babies cannot tolerate formula -- and it shouldn't be a surprise; the human body was not meant to consume it). It would be INSANE. (Lots of families do not qualify for Medicaid, nor do they have health insurance. These are the famlies I'm talking about. Furthermore, I'm not sure most health insurance would cover the cost of Prolacta products since they're so expensive compared to HMBANA ones... and I don't know what Medicaid would cover, if anything.)

Quote:
If anyone can point me to a state law regulating or forbidding the sale of breastmilk, I would really appreciate it. I have never seen one. Is there any state in which, oh say...Prolacta is not selling breastmilk? That would be interesting information to have.
Good question!
post #29 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrishWSU View Post

Know what would be really cool? If there was a company that paid donors for their milk, then processed and packaged it and was able to sell it for slightly less than formula to a mass market. And programs like WIC and food stamps will cover it's purchase. Then every baby would be getting BM! I know, I know, it's a pipe dream.
Wow. That would be nice.


Quote:
I agree-I really don't see a way to regulate donors to keep the "bad" out at a state or federal level. I just hope the women who donate will continue to be honest and caring people, and the people who need BM will take basic precautions to protect their babes.
This is my hope, too.
post #30 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaBear1976 View Post
You are right about this... However, Prolacta also sells other products that are human-milk-based. They sell Prolact-20, which is plain old pasteurized breast milk (The name comes from the amount of calories/ounce. Breastmilk contains, on average, 20 calories per ounce. I think the price for Prolact-20 is about $30-35/ounce... Compare that to the identical product from a non-profit HMBANA bank for $3.50/ounce and you start to see where the profit motive is huge.) Prolacta also sells Prolact-22 and Prolact-24, or at least they did in the past (they probably still do). The human milk fortifier is concentrated ten times more than the regular pasteurized milk (Prolact-20), so I'm guessing it would have 200 calories/ounce? In any case, the fortifier is not meant to be used straight. It's almost always intended to be added to regular breastmilk, in different concentrations (starting from around 20% by volume), depending on what the neonate in question needs (and all of it is guesswork at this point; there are no clinical trials that say what dosage is the most effective for what situation -- or even if it's safe, in term of osmolality, for example. Ironically, probably what they're basing their guesses on at this point is whatever concentrations formula companies have been using with their cow-milk-based fortifiers.) Prolacta's fortifier costs $184.83/ounce, and NO, it's not that expensive because it has to be, but because it CAN be.

I hope all that made sense.
I knew you'd have these details. And am I correct that there is still no evidence that the "human milk fortifier" is anything other than hindmilk which requires no sophisticated technology to extract?
post #31 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulla View Post
I don't see why it should be a problem. Throughout history wet nurses were compensated for their services. Historically, only a very small percentage of women provided breast milk in some form, either pumping or nursing, for noble reasons. For most women it was their livelihood.
Historically, the wet nurses were also nursing their own children (or hiring another wet nurse to do so). The problem I can forsee if selling breastmilk becomes popular (not that I think it will) is that women could easily choose to pump as much milk as they can to sell and then feed their own infant formula.
post #32 of 39
I gave away about 400 ounces and wish that I would have received some financial compensation for it. I had to pay for the pump rental and supplies. I was also sad to see my milk go! lol
post #33 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by prothyraia View Post
Historically, the wet nurses were also nursing their own children (or hiring another wet nurse to do so). The problem I can forsee if selling breastmilk becomes popular (not that I think it will) is that women could easily choose to pump as much milk as they can to sell and then feed their own infant formula.
And the historical parallel to this happened. The babies of wet nurses suffered, either because they did not get enough milk or did not get the milk of their own mothers. The mortality rates among the babies of wet nurses was far higher than that among the babies the "nurses" were hired to feed.

Let's keep in mind that there will always be a legal distinction between wet nursing and the sale of expressed breastmilk. The first is the sale of a service and the second is the sale of a product. I know this language is offensive but that distinction means that regulation of the two will always be distinct.
post #34 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamajake View Post
I knew you'd have these details. And am I correct that there is still no evidence that the "human milk fortifier" is anything other than hindmilk which requires no sophisticated technology to extract?
My understanding of the processing of Prolacta's human milk fortifier is that before it's concentrated, the fat is skimmed off the top, then the skim is evaporated, like it would be if you were to make evaporated milk (you know, the evaporated milk that comes in tin cans? It's concentrated cow milk, twice the concentration of regular cow's milk.) Prolacta concentrates the skim more than twice concentrated, though, and then they add back the fat. After it's all said and done, the resultant (over-processed) product is 10X the concentration of regular human milk. It's basically evaporated milk, but instead of cow's milk, it's human, and instead of twice-concentrated, it's ten times. It is not known what, if any, effect this concentrating of human milk has on its safety or efficacy. Since it's so heavily processed, a lot of the beneficial properties of breastmilk are cooked away. It's still species-specific, so it's probably better than cow-based fortifiers, but even that's conjecture, because it's not something that's naturally produced. There's no way to know how it will affect a real baby. (The thing that really bothers me about it, though, is how the raw material for this product is attained -- with quite a bit of deception --, and how expensive the end-product is for the recipient.)

I hope that made sense.
post #35 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamajake View Post
And the historical parallel to this happened. The babies of wet nurses suffered, either because they did not get enough milk or did not get the milk of their own mothers. The mortality rates among the babies of wet nurses was far higher than that among the babies the "nurses" were hired to feed.
I think in the days before infant formula, when some women had to become wet nurses because they had no other skill, wet nursing was seen as a "servant" type job. Nowadays, I think the tables have turned because people see the benefits of breastfeeding, and therefore, the value of a wet nurse (and the milk she can provide, which is better than any formula in any store).

I think a person who nowadays would choose to become a wet nurse would likely be more educated than a woman of yesteryear, and would, therefore, command a higher salary (even if she is wet "nursing" by using a pump and getting compensated for her time at the pump, and not necessarily nursing another person's child directly). I also think it's less likely that a person of today who would choose to become a wet nurse would not breastfeed her own baby. I think what is a lot more likely is that anything a woman would choose to sell/donate would be extra, after her own baby has eaten. I think the service of wet nursing in years past was probably done as an act of desperation, a way for a woman with little to no education to make some money for her family with a service that only a lactating woman could do, so it was more likely that she would make her own child go without for the sake of making more money to survive. I just don't see that happening today, not among the population of women who tend to lactate now.

It could change, of course. If breastmilk becomes a recognized commodity to the mainstream, it's possible that all kinds of women would choose to lactate just to make money off it. But it's also likely that those women would probably not have chosen to breastfeed their babies anyway. If anything, becoming a wet nurse -- or selling their milk -- will increase the chances of their children getting breastfed, not decrease them, because these women (who would have otherwise chosen to formula-feed and stop lactation) would choose to continue lactating... To make money, sure, but if a woman is already making milk, she might as well feed it to her baby if she's already making milk and pumping... It's free to her, after all... And she gets to make money off any extra... That would be pretty empowering...
post #36 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaBear1976 View Post
If breastmilk becomes a recognized commodity to the mainstream, it's possible that all kinds of women would choose to lactate just to make money off it. But it's also likely that those women would probably not have chosen to breastfeed their babies anyway.
That's a good point, I hadn't thought of it quite that way.
post #37 of 39
I'm a milk donor, so I have mixed feelings on this topic.

On one hand, it would be nice to be financially compensated for the time and effort that I put into pumping. Between the actual pumping and all the frickin' dishes I do, it's a lot of work, LOL!

But on the other hand, it's food for a sweet wee babe, and something about turning that into a commodity feels very icky. (I should note that the mama I donate to always insists on giving me a little money, which is not necessary but is definitely appreciated.)
post #38 of 39
My 3 1/2 y o still receives donor milk. And I can tell any donor from the bottom of my heart that I thank you. And there isn't enough money in the world for me to repay what has been done for my son.


And on that sappy note, I believe the law is regarding the sale of human tissue. So it encompasses things like kidneys etc. You could probably google it up.
post #39 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanveann View Post
I'm a milk donor, so I have mixed feelings on this topic.

On one hand, it would be nice to be financially compensated for the time and effort that I put into pumping. Between the actual pumping and all the frickin' dishes I do, it's a lot of work, LOL!

But on the other hand, it's food for a sweet wee babe, and something about turning that into a commodity feels very icky. (I should note that the mama I donate to always insists on giving me a little money, which is not necessary but is definitely appreciated.)
I'm a donor too and that is pretty much how I feel. I could certainly use the extra money, but I wouldn't want the family I donate to to have to pay for it.
I think that really I would be happy if I could write off my milk as a deductible donation for tax purposes!
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