If it was worse, would RIC end?

[christifav]

Obviously, I am against RIC for all the reasons we all know, and I know that RIC is harmful and horrible even when it goes "perfectly".

I also would NEVER wish harm/bad things on a helpless infant, EVER.

But I have found myself thinking lately (and hating myself for these thoughts) after someone I know circs, "well, when your son has (fill in the blank with circumcision side effect here) you'll be sorry and I'll say I told you so."

How many parents keep their son's penile issues private b/c they are embarrassed that they circumcised? Or because they want so badly to be right that they deny the problems were caused by the procedure? How many boys have issues that they don't even realize are related to their circ and are too embarrassed to share with their parents anyway?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if more boys were suffering (or, more correctly, if those who are suffering got more publicity), would RIC finally fall out of favor with the mainstream in America?

[eepster]

Around 10% of circ'd boys will suffer from meatal stenosis. Since mostly they won't develope this condition till they are 3 years old, their parents won't realize that it was caused by the circ which by then is "healed" and forgoten.

[Papai]

I find myself thinking the same thing. It's sad, but I feel like that would be the only way to change some people's minds: to have it hit home by their son suffering one of the "rare" complications.

[Daisyuk]

Originally Posted by Papai

I find myself thinking the same thing. It's sad, but I feel like that would be the only way to change some people's minds: to have it hit home by their son suffering one of the "rare" complications.

That's just it, the complications aren't rare, they're extremely common. 71% suffering having "adhesions" being pulled apart and the excrutiating pain going with it? 10% suffering from meatal stenosis, heaven knows how many infections, buried penises, painful erections, etc.etc. going on, the list is endless and caused by circumcision.

I think that just shows the extent of denial that's present. No, I don't think that even if it were to the extreme of a pharonic female circ it would end, any more than Sudanese or Somalian circumcisers can see a problem with what they do. Americans have cultural blinkers on due to the same reasoning, with the added bonus of the-subject-that-must-not-be-named being thrown in for good measure (although that applies to female circ as well in many countries).

[tlh]

my dad is circumcised and has a hypospadia caused by it.his mom and dad still circumcised all of their sons even though my dad is the oldest child.i am the oldest child in my family and have complications due to my circumcision.i have 2 friends with complications.my Grandparents never told anyone about my dad.my dad never told my mom about his complication and they circumcised all 3 sons.the 2 friends i mentioned my mom and their mothers were close friends and they never told my mom.no one tells anyone and when people have complications they still circumcise their other children.

look at what this mom said on another forum.


your original comments "more and more mothers are coming to their senses" what senses? "I thought it was horrible to put "a" newborn baby that is so innocent and has never felt pain through that" Sorry, I thought you were referring to "A" newborn baby...Not "YOUR" newborn baby. (I guess there is a difference.) Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but no need to be so critical of the decisions others make. There is not a RIGHT or WRONG answer on this topic. My 2nd ds had a horrible circumcision, and we had to RE-circumcize him within 24 hours or he would have BLED to death, but when we were weighing our options with our 3rd child, even after what our 2nd ds had been through, (and believe me,it was no picnic) we decided if our 3rd was a boy we would opt for a circumcision again, not because of anything other than that is what was RIGHT for us. We have many friends who have circumcized their boys, and many who have not, doesn't matter to us what others do with their babies. They are precious to ME, they are precious to my friends...everyone's baby is their WORLD.

[Daisyuk]

Originally Posted by tlh

My 2nd ds had a horrible circumcision, and we had to RE-circumcize him within 24 hours or he would have BLED to death, but when we were weighing our options with our 3rd child, even after what our 2nd ds had been through, (and believe me,it was no picnic) we decided if our 3rd was a boy we would opt for a circumcision again, not because of anything other than that is what was RIGHT for us. We have many friends who have circumcized their boys, and many who have not, doesn't matter to us what others do with their babies. They are precious to ME, they are precious to my friends...everyone's baby is their WORLD.

My bolding.

That says it all, major denial. Nothing about what the baby is going through, or what the man he will become will want, and even though her first son apparently nearly died, she still went ahead with it again because she wants to. UGH.

These are the people that will say and do nothing when a child is being battered and abused next door because "doesn't matter to us what others do with their babies".

Those women are completely beneath contempt. They don't deserve to be mothers at all.

[tlh]

during this debate me and 1 woman were the only ones saying circumcision was a bad idea of the probably 10 people involved only 2 were against it.the mother with the son that almost died learned nothing.the question that started the debate was

"can i circumcise my 13 month old son?"

[phdmama06]

Originally Posted by Daisyuk

That's just it, the complications aren't rare, they're extremely common. 71% suffering having "adhesions" being pulled apart and the excrutiating pain going with it? 10% suffering from meatal stenosis, heaven knows how many infections, buried penises, painful erections, etc.etc. going on, the list is endless and caused by circumcision. I think that just shows the extent of denial that's present.

:

Some of the parents who circumcise believe that they are doing the procedure for "medical reasons," i.e. to avoid problems later like infections or a circumcision later in life, but I don't get how any of these (mythical) problems are any worse than "having" to get recircumcised, getting adhesions forcefully torn apart at the pedi's, meatal stenosis, loss of sensitivity, etc. The fact that many of these boys DO suffer indicates to me that there is a lot of denial, or at least rationalizing, going on. I have heard so many parents of circ'ed boys say something along the lines of, "I felt SO bad and SO guilty that my boy was in so much pain during recovery (or because of circ complication x), but I still know that we did the best thing for him! At least he won't get AIDS/infections/STDs later in life!" : Perhaps these parents are ignoring their boys' suffering because they are holding so tightly onto the belief that circumcision is more attractive/cleaner/better/healthier? I think there really needs to be a dramatic shift in the cultural view of RIC before it gets even close to going away.

[Claire and Boys]

there was one a while ago where the baby got an infection post circ and the pics were posted here... looked awful but she still said she would circ again if she had another boy.

[alegna]

I know a toddler with buried penis. Most likely due to circ. His mom is just *sure* that it would have happened anyway and has nothing to do with the circ.

-Angela

[lrlittle]

Originally Posted by alegna

I know a toddler with buried penis. Most likely due to circ. His mom is just *sure* that it would have happened anyway and has nothing to do with the circ.

-Angela

I know two toddlers who I think have it. One is my sister's friend. She says the child's penis looks sort of like a belly button. As far as I know her friend thinks it's normal. :

[Arduinna]

I don't think that parents that circ generally keep issues quiet, why would they when they still believe what they did was right and their decision. IME they just chalk it up to being unlucky or something. Rarely do they think that it was their fault for circing in the first place, unless they have become intactivists.

[momtothree]

Originally Posted by alegna

I know a toddler with buried penis. Most likely due to circ. His mom is just *sure* that it would have happened anyway and has nothing to do with the circ.

-Angela

If she blamed it on the circ, then she may have to face the reality that her decision to circ. caused the problem.

[hakunangovi]

The OP has a point that if more people were aware of complications due to circumcison, then surely many/some? of them would start to realise that this is not the benign (or even beneficial) procedure that they had believed.

The fact is that men/boys will not share that they have a problem with their genitals, except possibly in a safe place like this where they know that they will recieve support. They are just too embarassed.

I have always hated being circumcised, but I never told my parents that. The closest I came was to ask my mother why? After explaining, she asked if DS was circumcised, (even though she had seen him naked). I answered "no", and went on to say that the rate in the U.K. (where she was living was only about 1% (at that time). That ended the topic. In hindsight I wish I would have continued , if only to educate her, but I did not wish to lay a guilt trip on her , because I believe that she was duped into believing that she was doing the best thing for her sons.

[Bm31]

People are so ignorant of what a true penis is suppose to be like. They blindly accept all the problems that come with circ as "normal." I once came across a discussion site (not primarily about circ at all) where numerous teens/young men had many questions/concerns about their penises...odd skin tags, ugly brown scarring, hair on their shafts, the need for lube while masturbating, etc. Their need for reassurance that all was "normal" with them was really sad.

As rarely as people like to talk about or admit penis problems, I still know at least 3 people IRL with sons/grandsons that "had" to be re-circ'd. Yet the one's grandmother will still wrinkle her nose at the thought of an intact penis. So they keep sacrificing the genitals of their children on the altar of stupidity.

[minkajane]

Originally Posted by tlh

My 2nd ds had a horrible circumcision, and we had to RE-circumcize him within 24 hours or he would have BLED to death...

This makes NO sense - he's having excessive bleeding which is solved by cutting MORE skin off?. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense as in it's ridiculous, I'm saying it doesn't make logical/logistical sense. A recircumcision is not going to prevent a child from bleeding to death. Did she mean that she had to take the baby in to get the wound stitched or repaired in some way to stop the bleeding and she mixed this up with being recircumcised?

A friend of mine has a cousin with a buried penis caused by his circumcision. She knew that the circ caused it, I provided her with a bunch of info (which her mom said she read) and she circ'd her son anyway.

[theretohere]

:
So sad what people do to their babies to try to make them 'normal'.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by minkajane

This makes NO sense - he's having excessive bleeding which is solved by cutting MORE skin off?. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense as in it's ridiculous, I'm saying it doesn't make logical/logistical sense. A recircumcision is not going to prevent a child from bleeding to death. Did she mean that she had to take the baby in to get the wound stitched or repaired in some way to stop the bleeding and she mixed this up with being recircumcised?

Probably it was decided that the easiest way to stop the bleeding was to crush the viens leading down to the foreskin remnant. They probably used a plastibell to do it which had to be placed higher up on the foreskin so there was room to tie it off well. then they simply cut off any foreskin below the new line.

If I have speculated correctly that poor little boy will have ended up with a very tight circ.

[yokosmile]

there was one a while ago where the baby got an infection post circ and the pics were posted here... looked awful but she still said she would circ again if she had another boy.

She needs a trip to an insane asylum, not another baby to torture. :

[serendipity22]

ric is rooted in dishonesty

If people were more honest with themselves and others, ric would have ended a long time ago.

It has greatly lessened in the English speaking countries apart from the USA.