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If it was worse, would RIC end? - Page 2  

post #21 of 26
I don't think it would automatically end if it was worse.

Look at FGM in Africa (the severe forms like infibulation). Did those societies figure out by themselves, wait, it kills many girls right away, others suffer for their whole lives, or die when giving birth (along with the baby) – maybe, just maybe this is not good for our community and we should stop it? (Even if men were dead set on restraining women's sexuality, they would have to realize that it doesn't help to lose so many people, and selectively from the one sex that is the limiting factor for reproduction.)

No, people from societies who don't practice FGM had and still have to go in and tell and show them that FGM is bad and not normal and most importantly: that nothing terrible happens if you don't do it.

Or look at male circumcision where it's done under unprofessional and unhygienic circumstances and kills many boys each year. South African officials fight an uphill battle against the dangerous, illegal circumcision schools – young men are still running there, even with the prospect of dying or having all of their genitals amputated.

If a practice is ingrained in a culture and people firmly believe that you just have to do it (for whatever reason), it doesn't matter how high a price they pay. They will possibly cling to it even tighter if the price is high, because stopping it would mean that it was never necessary in the first place – and thus all the suffering and death was for nothing all the time.

They do it because they firmly believe they must. And they firmly believe they must do it because they do it.

Of course, there are always intelligent and brave individuals who wake up to reality, but I'm talking about the societies as a whole.

This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the respective society's level of education and industrialisation, either. The reasons and arguments are simply adjusted to the progressing development.

Stardust
post #22 of 26
I posted a link and quote from that glans amputation story on a pregnancy board a couple of days ago :

next one'll be on meatal stenosis

Why not take advantage of pregnancy board hysteria?
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
I posted a link and quote from that glans amputation story on a pregnancy board a couple of days ago :

next one'll be on meatal stenosis

Why not take advantage of pregnancy board hysteria?
When you do that, make sure you explain that meatal stenosis is not included in complication rates:
THAT dishonesty boggles my mind-- it is rampant in almost EVERY (even generally pro-intact) parenting circ. info site.

Yet the lifetime complications of intactness are included EVERY time, because well, penile cancer might happen when the man is 99.:

Jessica
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by minkajane View Post
This makes NO sense - he's having excessive bleeding which is solved by cutting MORE skin off?. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense as in it's ridiculous, I'm saying it doesn't make logical/logistical sense. A recircumcision is not going to prevent a child from bleeding to death. Did she mean that she had to take the baby in to get the wound stitched or repaired in some way to stop the bleeding and she mixed this up with being recircumcised?

A friend of mine has a cousin with a buried penis caused by his circumcision. She knew that the circ caused it, I provided her with a bunch of info (which her mom said she read) and she circ'd her son anyway.
i don't know what she meant.i was so angry i had to quit talking to them.i think eepster has the right idea though.

i think the biggest problem in admitting you made the wrong decision is most parents do not want to tell their children they hurt them or say they are sorry for it or try to pay restitution for it.
post #25 of 26
Quote:
When you do that, make sure you explain that meatal stenosis is not included in complication rates
THAT dishonesty boggles my mind-- it is rampant in almost EVERY (even generally pro-intact) parenting circ. info site.
I don't think penile adhesions are included in complication rates, nor are problems
that occur later in life like painful erections, penises that bend, potentcy problems etc. etc.

Loss of the foreskin is a complication that happens 100% of the time.

Quote:
Yet the lifetime complications of intactness are included EVERY time, because well, penile cancer might happen when the man is 99
Keep in mind that circed men can get penile cancer, circ only prevents cancer of the foreskin.

The word "complication" means something that is a nuisance for a doctor, not something that is a problem for the person who has been injured.
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by serendipity22 View Post
The word "complication" means something that is a nuisance for a doctor, not something that is a problem for the person who has been injured.
Using that defenition the only complication of not circ'ing would be the Dr missing a payment on his new vacation home:.
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