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I didn't realise CIO was so... everywhere... - Page 2

post #21 of 44
Thread Starter 

Another one?

So... I mentioned to another friend that my son has been a real handful when I leave (I sell Tupperware and go out for a couple of hours 3 nights a week). I mentioned that DS is good for about an hour and then when it comes time for bed, fights sleep with everything he has and DH has to wear him in the Ergo until I get home.

My friend said that it was time for DH to lay down the law and teach him to sleep. She said that one day her kid was driving her crazy and she decided it was time to go on a schedule. So she put her to bed and told her to sleep - and checked on her every 20 minutes or so - and she cried for 3.5 hours that first night!!!

And here is the kicker: "I couldn't believe she cried for so long - she was only 6 weeks old and couldn't have weighed more than 8 lbs." (She was slightly premie at 5.5 lbs at birth) She couldn't believe she would have the stamina!
She only cried for 1.5 hrs the next night and so forth - and so this is my example of how to do it.

This woman is a "tree hugging dirt worshiping" pagan sort like myself - or perhaps - not like myself.

My son does cry pretty inconsolably while I am out - and I agree that he has to learn that it isn't the end of the world - particularly since my mat leave is up soon! However, I think that there is a huge difference between him crying while his father plays and feeds and holds and carries him and being let to cry alone in the crib!
post #22 of 44
Wow, that just makes me want to cry I have NEVER understood why CIO is so pervasive either. Seems like every other person treats this like a badge of honor (as in "I showed my kid who was boss").

When DD was a week old, my FIL told me how they "had to" let my DH CIO for FIVE HOURS once when he was 6 weeks old, but he didn't cry when they put him down after that. Um, yeah, because a six week old needs to be tough and independent, right? BARF! :Puke
post #23 of 44
How could someone look into their lo's face and be able to let them cry like that? They are so innocent. Being a mom has made me a softer person that's for sure and it all has to do with that sweet little adoring face.
post #24 of 44
Letting a child cry until he gags or vomits is abuse and the parents need counseling so they do not continue to abuse this child. I know this happens but I am just HORRIFIED. What has this poor little baby done wrong????
Did want to have sympathy with the mamas who walk away when needed. My DS2 pushes me to the moments when I give myself a "time-in" until I feel patient and/or kind enough to handle whatever madness is happening.
post #25 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magali View Post
How could someone look into their lo's face and be able to let them cry like that? They are so innocent. Being a mom has made me a softer person that's for sure and it all has to do with that sweet little adoring face.
: ITA! Before DS, I was all "no baby in the bed; show 'em who's boss; bf'ing after 6 mo is shady, yada yada yada." Cut to 9 m.o. cosleeping ds, no thoughts of weaning anytime soon and we would never, ever CIO! I seriously DO.NOT.GET how someone could physically do this! I would flip out!
post #26 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by zonapellucida View Post
ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!!!! get her some information for there is something seriously wrong with anyone that would do that!~!!!!! Poor baby, this made me sick
It tears me up as well. I can't stand it when someone says CIO is the best way and then downs someone that co-sleeps. They really just don't "get it" I guess. :

I agree that it's child abuse. Not to mention, how can someone seriously sit and ignore a crying baby or child like that. so sad.
post #27 of 44
I still get email newsletters from a mainstream website, and this quoted from good ole dr. ferber's book "solve your child's sleep problems" in the latest issue:

Quote:
“Occasionally, as parents increase the time they wait before responding, their child cries so hard he throws up. If that happens, go in even though the time isn’t up yet. Clean your child up and change the sheets and pajamas as needed. But do so quickly and matter-of-factly, and then leave again.”
I can't imagine :
post #28 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by nini02 View Post
I still get email newsletters from a mainstream website, and this quoted from good ole dr. ferber's book "solve your child's sleep problems" in the latest issue:



I can't imagine :
ugh.. ferber is borderline child abuse. i cant believe letting your child puke themselves is considered ok. :
post #29 of 44
Sometimes I wonder...do people who do these type of things (letting a 6-week-old CIO for 3.5 hours :, letting any age child cry until they vomit, etc.) - have some kind of issues where they did not bond well with the baby at birth, or something?

I am not trying to be patronizing to them, and it's normally *not* the kind of speculation I like to engage in. And I know everyone's experiences are different. But my reaction to my infant's cry was so visceral, it so completely FLOODED me with the IMPERATIVE to soothe...that I truly cannot understand how a new mother cannot feel even a shadow of that. I think a lot of it is hormonal and it just seems odd that some moms should have tons of the "soothe the baby" hormones and others should seemingly have none.

If they even had a fraction of the feelings I experienced, they simply could not do these things, no matter how many people had told them it was the right thing to do. At a certain point your biology overrides cultural conditioning. We'd flee instinctively from a large animal running towards us no matter how culturally conditioned we had been to regard these animals as cuddly and harmless, kwim? An instinct to soothe one's own crying baby seems *just* as essential to our species' survival and thus *just* as hard to resist as the urge to flee from a possible predator.

I think it is easier for dads and other non-maternal caregivers to let a child CIO, although a baby's cry is harrowing to everyone. I always have hated to hear a baby cry and felt a pang in my heart. But when it was *my* baby...just night and day...10,000 times more intensity. I couldn't have let a 6-week-old CIO for anything, probably not even if it was somehow required for her health. I'd have had to be restrained.

So...I always do wonder, were these women who do this "extreme CIO" separated from their babies right after birth, did that hormonal connection somehow get severed? It does not make sense to me from an evolutionary standpoint that mothers should fail to have the normal reaction to their babies' cries, that is, to rush to soothe them...and the rush gradually gets less urgent as the babes grow, such a natural process.
post #30 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkTrance View Post

She wants more kids (I don't know why -- she can't obviously handle the ones she has) and I have a feeling that when she lets her newborn CIO, I won't be hanging out with her very much anymore.

I just don't think our friendship will survive child abuse. I will probably be friends with her again after she's finished her cruelty, because she loves her children and is just extremely uneducated, but during the early months of her babies, I don't stick around.
I have a mutual friend who DID have more children after letting her first dd cry and cry for hours, and apparently, she hasn't learned anything because she's still doing it with her second child.

She's lost three friends, myself included, because we all have children and we just can't sit there and listen to her babies cry while she goes about her business.
post #31 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nora'sMama View Post
But my reaction to my infant's cry was so visceral, it so completely FLOODED me with the IMPERATIVE to soothe...
....
If they even had a fraction of the feelings I experienced, they simply could not do these things, no matter how many people had told them it was the right thing to do. At a certain point your biology overrides cultural conditioning.
....
I'd have had to be restrained...

When my dd cries, it is the same for me. I cant imagine not being able to pick her up, cuddle and nurse her. It is impossible for me to just let her cry - I physically cant do it. It is like every fiber of my being just vibrates; I cant eat, talk, or even think. It feels like I would rather have my skin peeled off than to let her cry. Even now that she is almost 6 months, when she makes a certain sound or cry, its like I am on auto-pilot, and I'm picking her up faster than my brain can even register the thought. I agree with you as well, my husband and family, as much as they are upset by her cry, they just dont seem to feel it as intensely as I do.
post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by nini02 View Post
I still get email newsletters from a mainstream website, and this quoted from good ole dr. ferber's book "solve your child's sleep problems" in the latest issue:



I can't imagine :
Its just hard to believe that someone could do this to a child that is so innocent!
I can't imagine doing something that feels so wrong to me.

A new "friend" sd to me the other day "I'm letting H cio again tonight, last night was sooo hard. I hope she doesn't cry like that again." I asked her how long she cried and she sd TWO HOURS! I told her that that was just mean and abusive to do that to a baby that was 6mths old (she was told that a baby had to "learn"):. I may have lost a new friend who I liked but I just couldn't keep my mouth shut about that precious baby.

Don't people realize that babies NEED us? Their wants are their needs. They are NOT trying to manipulate us by crying! WAKE UP PEOPLE OUR BABIES NEED US!

Sorry, I'll stop now. But this just breaks my heart, as I know it does y'all too.
post #33 of 44
:This makes me so sad! I'm so sorry for the poor sweet baby.
post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewins24 View Post
Its just hard to believe that someone could do this to a child that is so innocent!
I can't imagine doing something that feels so wrong to me.

A new "friend" sd to me the other day "I'm letting H cio again tonight, last night was sooo hard. I hope she doesn't cry like that again." I asked her how long she cried and she sd TWO HOURS! I told her that that was just mean and abusive to do that to a baby that was 6mths old (she was told that a baby had to "learn"):. I may have lost a new friend who I liked but I just couldn't keep my mouth shut about that precious baby.

Don't people realize that babies NEED us? Their wants are their needs. They are NOT trying to manipulate us by crying! WAKE UP PEOPLE OUR BABIES NEED US!

Sorry, I'll stop now. But this just breaks my heart, as I know it does y'all too.

I think many people (my family included) were raised with that whole if you hold them too much you will spoil them if you run to their every whimper they will get spoiled.. i never thought it was ok so I am the lone freak in my family, but that doesnt bother me at all. When she cries for more than 2 or 3 minutes it makes me want to cry and I have cried before when she was crying for long periods of time. Isnt that what mothers are supposed to do?
post #35 of 44
Yes, everywhere. Or I am very unlucky with who is around me. *sigh* I hear CIO BS all.the.time. My Gram raised me & was an anti crying warrier. I am so glad I was raised with that influence. Letting a baby scream is foreign to me. Heck, if I didn't SPRINT (not walk) to my babes she told me off. Allowing a baby to cry & not respond goes against every natural inclination inside a mother. I cannot wrap my head around it. :
post #36 of 44
Yeah, I dont get how people do that. But, I don't get how people think/do a lot of what mainstream parents do (FF, have baby watching tv/movies, pacifiers, not co-sleeping, disposable diapers, etc)...

I mean, I suppose not letting my son CIO might be a tinsy bit more work (ie, I end up holding him a lot, and wearing him sometimes), but, really.. its not like its going to last forever. I'm sure he'll figure out sleeping by himself at some point, so I'm just not going to worry about it for now...
post #37 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat_shoshin View Post
So... my houseguest lets her son CIO. We were just sitting in the living room, listening to him cry. It was awkward and weird raising our voices over his cries. He is 16 months old. My guy is 7 months.

Our friends admitted to letting him cry until he vomits and then going in silently and cleaning him up and then leaving and letting him do it again.
I have the same response as just about everybody--It horrifies me!

But what DO you do in this situation??? It's not easy for me to sit back with the attitude of yea-whatever-you-parent-your-way-I'll-parent-my-way...
post #38 of 44
Thread Starter 
Nora'smomma:
Quote:
So...I always do wonder, were these women who do this "extreme CIO" separated from their babies right after birth, did that hormonal connection somehow get severed? It does not make sense to me from an evolutionary standpoint that mothers should fail to have the normal reaction to their babies' cries, that is, to rush to soothe them...and the rush gradually gets less urgent as the babes grow, such a natural process.

What I find interesting is that these 2 women were handed their infants from birth and never separated... I wasn't permitted to hold my child until he was 30 hours old... and didn't receive him until 4.5 days old. I actually thought that because of 4 days on his back in NICU, that he would just sleep in the bassinett - boy was I wrong. He was so hungry for people that we couldn't put him down again... and oh yeah - we really haven't yet.

I told my Mom that I would never put him down again... and we literally didn't for several days. She complains loudly that we spoil him - but luckily for us, she believes that it is too late to change that and spoils him along with us!
post #39 of 44
Right before we left the hospital with SJ, they had to take her picture -- she started crying while they were taking the picture and Ina (not quite 3 at the time) took off at a dead run to go get her baby sister. "They're hurting our baby!" I had to grab her to stop her. I was so proud of her (and SJ arrived about the same time I got sister stopped).

I think that if you grow up in a non-CIO environment, it's much more difficult to ignore a child's cries. But a lot of people have grown up in a CIO environment, and it's what they know.

My SIL is friends with a Babywise mom. I know her friend loves her baby. And that she suffers when she does CIO. But she is convinced it's the only way to go. Her mother has told her to relax. They sent her MIL home early, because MIL was "interfering" with scheduling by picking up a crying/fussing newborn. I don't know if this plugs into this "Moms must be martyrs and suffer for the good of the child" idea or what .... but it's really messed up. She's told SIL how difficult it is. SIL, of course, has a super-easy baby who wouldn't cry if she did try CIO so I don't think she "gets" it much.

When I hear CIOish things, I usually offer suggestions of what worked for us, in a "it doesn't have to be so extreme, maybe babe is teething, have you tried X instead?" sort of way. Or suggest the No Cry Sleep Solution book.

I agree that it's basically child abuse. But it's so widespread, I think people get really defensive about it unless you couch suggestions in a nonthreatening way, KWIM?
post #40 of 44
My neighbor follows Babywise and has started doing CIO with her not-quite-4 mos baby. She seems to have some doubts about whether CIO is the right thing to do, but her husband and her doc are pushing her to do it, and she seems to defer to them quite often. She asked me for my opinion and I told her I refused to ever to that to my baby. I told her babies that cry are communicating a need. I also made suggestions about how to handle their babe's night wakings. She nodded and agreed but I don't think it sank in. I feel so sorry for that little babe. I know these babywise/ferber types are out there but it was still pretty disturbing to find out someone I know does it. Gave me some insight into why people do it even if while have misgivings about it. I think they are made to think that it is a necessary evil, that to not do it will create bigger problems (i.e., a child that won't sleep) down the road. Depressing.
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