Do parents ever watch the procedure being done? - Page 3

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by thefragile7393

.....to prove that I can care for a circ'ed penis.

I'm assuming you meant intact??

Jessica

[jessjgh1]

There's a circumcisoin information video on a website that shows the procedure for one of the devices (mogen maybe). The operator explains in the video all the prep he is doing and then the boy is wrapped up in a pretty blanket (surgical drapes left on but now covered) and brought into the room where the family is and a final cut is done.

Now I'm sure this is not typical-- but from the tone on the website I assume that many parent leaves with the impression that the final quick 'procedure' is all that was done, when the operator had already done a good deal of the painful surgery before hand.

Jessica

[Ironica]

My DH is circ'ed, and my FIL did watch the procedure. He sitll cringes when talking about it.

They've never had thing one to say about their grandson's intact penis. They've never said a word against circumcision either, or suggested that they wish they'd made a different choice, but unlike the snide remarks about cloth diapers and the concerned questions about co-sleeping ;-), they are totally unconcerned about us leaving our son intact.

(DH is an only child, so there's no knowing whether they would have done it again.)

[Jennifer Z]

My dh watched our son's circ. It was before I had any good arguments against circ and everybody, in both families, was horrified that I was even questioning it.

Zane didn't react at all. It was done under a local, which he didn't react to either. He never reacted to cleaning it either. It really blew the heck out my arguement against circumcision. He reacted much more strongly to holding his arm to take his temperature.

Of course, we discovered much later that his sensory system is all messed up, so when I hear there was no reaction I always wonder if the child end up taking a similar path as my ds. I have no problem believing a baby giggled actually, having seen some of Zane's pain responses over the years. He can't stand some material brushing over him, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he broke a limb and it took a while for us to notice it because he doesn't react to pain.

[serendipity22]

My dh watched our son's circ. It was before I had any good arguments against circ and everybody, in both families, was horrified that I was even questioning it.

Zane didn't react at all. It was done under a local, which he didn't react to either.

But hang on, you were not there, so you don't know. You could say dh
said Zane didn't react at all.

In any case its possible to feel intense pain without reacting.

[Jennifer Z]

In the first place, he wouldn't lie. In the second place, it happened just around the corner from me and I could hear everything going on. Why is so hard to fathom that a man would be truthful? Geez.

My dh is the gentlest soul around. He was there so that he could comfort ds and because he didn't want ds to feel alone. He was very relieved that it didn't bother him. He has a harder time dealing with our kids hurting than I do. When our kids have to have procedures done, I am the one that goes into the hospital because he just can't stand seeing them hurt.

The main reason I couldn't go to the circ was because I was recovering from being in labor for over a day and then having a very, very emergency c-section. (running down the hall on the guerney to the OR emergency to get him out because they lost his heartbeat. He was born not breathing.). I was extremely sick and couldn't go.

I don't agree with circumcision, but it is because it isn't neccessary IMO. It isn't because of our experience with it, because if anything, our experience with it would be pro-circ because it was such a non-event for ds. It can happen, whether you want to believe it or not.

[serendipity22]

Jennifer, sorry to hear about the c-section and your son born not breathing. It must have been a terrible experience for both you and him.

[carriebft]

Circumcisoins can be uneventful in the area of things doctors generally think of as risks. But 100% of the time sensation is lost for that chid forever. So to say that the act of circumcision itself was a "non event" for a child because they did not outwardly react to pain means very little.

That idea just solidifies within me the need to spread far and wide the sexual side effects of circumcision. Many babies might not cry, many might not have the risks generally cited on the consent form...but all will have lost the functions of the foreskin and the most sensitive part of the penis.

(note this post is not to attack Jennifer in any way; it is just me giving my thoughts as to how much furhter we have to go in the area of education about the functions of the foreskin and why circumcision is not only wrong because of the risks on the consent form, pain, and it being cosmetic...it is also wrong because of the sexual side affects on an unconsenting child)

[Jennifer Z]

serendipity, thank you. Yes, it was scary. His second apgar was 7, so he recovered fairly quickly and we left the hospital "on time", but it was terrifying to see his blue body being ran to the ressesitation team. When my dd was born, I could hear her crying before they even got her completely out and I just started sobbing uncontrollably. I didn't realize how badly I needed to hear that.

On the circ stuff, you will not hear me argue in favor of circs. I was sadly uniformed when I had my son and if I could do it over, I would do it differently. I can't change it though. But, it doesn't change the fact that the actual procedure was not traumatic for him. You can certainly argue that it will affect his future sexual responses, but who knows if he will ever have the opportunity to actually use it that way, so it is sort of a moot point right now.

[Papai]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Z

My dh watched our son's circ. It was before I had any good arguments against circ and everybody, in both families, was horrified that I was even questioning it.

Zane didn't react at all. It was done under a local, which he didn't react to either. He never reacted to cleaning it either. It really blew the heck out my arguement against circumcision. He reacted much more strongly to holding his arm to take his temperature.

Of course, we discovered much later that his sensory system is all messed up, so when I hear there was no reaction I always wonder if the child end up taking a similar path as my ds. I have no problem believing a baby giggled actually, having seen some of Zane's pain responses over the years. He can't stand some material brushing over him, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he broke a limb and it took a while for us to notice it because he doesn't react to pain.

Well considering you found out his sensory system was all messed up, that makes sense. Thanks for sharing your story and I'm sorry you had such a traumatic birth!

[Jennifer Z]

I never really put the two together until this discussion, but a part of me wonders if that was the first sign of autism. (or at the very least, his sensory system being different). It was one of those funny "quirks" in the hospital that even the nurses commented on...that he was so very, very upset when they held his arm against his body to get the armpit temperature but didn't react at all to a much more painful stimuli.

He retained that trait and it is still a part of him. We only check his temperature when it is obvious he has a pretty decent fever because it is just not worth knowing his exact temp unless we are getting to "should we consider medicating him?" (which is the last resort before the doctor or the ER...if we show up to the ER without so much as a tylenol then we will waste time there waiting to see if that works before they will do anything else)

I wonder if it should be noted in the records of the babies that are circ'ed when they don't respond appropriatly as a red flag to be watched.

sorry...sort of a random thought there.

[mamatoElias]

I work in a pediatric office and some of our doctors let parents watch. Some choose to, some do not. Both my sons are circumcised (No, I am not pro-circ, my husband is, and its a long and painful story) and my husband watched our youngest being circ'ed. It was awful and I could hear it all from down the hall, but my husband claims he wasn't bothered by it. I don't see how he could be so unaffected by his newborn son's pain, but he insists that if we have another, he'll be circumcised too. We may not have another for that very reason.

[Papai]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Z

I never really put the two together until this discussion, but a part of me wonders if that was the first sign of autism. (or at the very least, his sensory system being different). It was one of those funny "quirks" in the hospital that even the nurses commented on...that he was so very, very upset when they held his arm against his body to get the armpit temperature but didn't react at all to a much more painful stimuli.

He retained that trait and it is still a part of him. We only check his temperature when it is obvious he has a pretty decent fever because it is just not worth knowing his exact temp unless we are getting to "should we consider medicating him?" (which is the last resort before the doctor or the ER...if we show up to the ER without so much as a tylenol then we will waste time there waiting to see if that works before they will do anything else)

I wonder if it should be noted in the records of the babies that are circ'ed when they don't respond appropriatly as a red flag to be watched.

sorry...sort of a random thought there.

You know, you bring up a very good point. I think it should be noted. Because most babies will cry when pricked with the heel prick, so it's hard to imagine that a circumcision would be painless for a newborn.

[Pumpkinheadmommy]

I was recently in a debate with someone who said she witnessed her son's circ and she kept saying how surprised she was at how "non-invasive" it was. She said there was only a single drop of blood at the end and he didn't make a peep. The thing that really got me, though, was that she kept saying I needed to witness a "real" circ and not the ones on the "propaganda" sites.

To me, that's like telling a vegan they need to witness a cow being slaugthered. "It's just a quick 'pop' in the head. They never see it coming." Like it even matters how "painless" they can make it. To me, the possibility of pain during the procedure was just the final nail in the coffin. It it were truly necessary, then a little pain could be tolerated. But there are so, SO many other reasons NOT to do this.

[paula444four]

Yes

Get this....i know someone who not only watched...but took a picture...and it is in their BABY BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!! he is strapped down ...right before the actual cutting. IT was shocking to see!! At least they are real i guess. When i asked about it...they were all proud...oh we would NEVER leave him. These parents are very nice folks who are AP in general. Oh and since the circ...the baby has had some healing occur so they had to pull the skin away again .

[Julz6871]

Some of the parent's observations really aren't a stretch in my experience. When I was in high school....so long ago they had a medical assistant/nursing student program where we learned basic medical skills and observed at the hospital a few hours three days a week. I was in labor and delivery and newborn nursery for a year (Don't get me started on L&D) but I saw a ton of circs. A lot of babies DID sleep through them (can anyone say shock)? They did cry more about being strapped down than having a shot at the base of their penis-not all but most. That does not mean it isn't taking things away, or harmful, or unneccessary. Babies retreat to sleep when they are stressed. I never really thought much of those experiences until I was older. Now I mostly try to put it out of my mind it has become very traumatic for me. I hardly remember any parents being there. Some on the other side of the glass video taping, but the gory part was blocked. Also I would imagine a lot of parents who do go, do not "look."

A friend whose husband is intact recently circed (I wrote a vent here about it) and he watched. Said it was the most horrific thing he had ever seen, but it was the right decision and they will do the next son too. AHHHH!

And more disturbing is the fact that I remember two doctors getting in an argument in the break room about circ. One doctor was trying to tell another about all the cons to circing etc. She listened then got up, smiled, and said, "I have to go mutilate some boys now." And off to the nursery she went. :

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by Julz6871

One doctor was trying to tell another about all the cons to circing etc. She listened then got up, smiled, and said, "I have to go mutilate some boys now." And off to the nursery she went. :

OMFG! I guess "do no harm" means NOTHING to her :. I think that this doctor is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much worse than a prostitute, she sold out every single peice of her soul...