If you weren't praised as a child - Page 6

[savithny]

Originally Posted by Deva33mommy

I do see what Octobermom is saying. Parent's (and partners) opinions DO matter.
If dp said about dinner "wow, you sure did use a lot of spinach" (which he loves, btw) I wouldn't know how to take that. Did that make it tasty? Or was it too much? etc.
I like hearing "Dinner is really good." (but I still don't think I'd like to hear "good job cooking" )

Exactly! THis is what I've been reaching for in some of my posts.... while we should acheive for the pleasure of achievement -- our achievements don't exist in a vaccuum and without SOME feedback ("evaluative praise," yes?) we can't get a decent idea of the results of our work on the people it impacts -- and children are seeking feedback on how the social world works.

TO continue your example (I LOVE "you used a lot of spinach" BTW)

I know, objectively, that the very act of cooking dinner is an achievement of some kind, no matter how the food turns out.

However: to know whether my efforts had their intended effect (ie, whether the people for whom I cooked dinner enjoyed it), I need actual evaluation -- I need praise, particularly descriptive, evaluative, praise. "The spinach is really good," tells me I did something I should do again. "The spinach is really good, you made it spicier than last time," tells me that I can spice things up and my target audience will enjoy that more.

Yeah, hearing "you cooked dinner! Good job!" would get on my last nerve. But so would night after night of DP commenting on my technique in absolutely neutral terms because he's not wanting to use evaluative praise in case I start cooking dinner JUST for the praise. Frankly, I'd probably stop cooking dinner if I heard "you used spinach!" every night...

[Daffodil]

Originally Posted by alexsam

So- I had the opposite. If you looked in my house growing up, you'd see an estatic mother over childrens art, clapping vigorously at our pretend puppet shows hailing our creativity, smiling with a tear in the eye about how wonderful we were... Alfie's worst nightmare!

I don't think that sounds like the opposite of what Alfie Kohn promotes at all. From your description, I really think it sounds a lot like what he described in Unconditional Parenting. It certainly sounds like you felt unconditionally loved.

AK doesn't recommend responding without emotion to whatever your kid does. He doesn't say you shouldn't celebrate with your kid when she's happy about something she did. He doesn't say you should avoid telling your kid how wonderful she is.

As Savithny said, it's really a bad idea to decide you disagree with Alfie Kohn based on what people on MDC say he says. Threads like this are full of misconceptions about his ideas. I didn't find that article of his people always link to ("Five Reasons Not to Say Good Job" or something like that) very convincing, either. I read Punished by Rewards without any expectation I would agree with it, but it actually made a lot of sense, and so did Unconditional Parenting.

[wonderwahine]

Originally Posted by savithny

Exactly! THis is what I've been reaching for in some of my posts.... while we should acheive for the pleasure of achievement -- our achievements don't exist in a vaccuum and without SOME feedback ("evaluative praise," yes?) we can't get a decent idea of the results of our work on the people it impacts -- and children are seeking feedback on how the social world works.

TO continue your example (I LOVE "you used a lot of spinach" BTW)

I know, objectively, that the very act of cooking dinner is an achievement of some kind, no matter how the food turns out.

However: to know whether my efforts had their intended effect (ie, whether the people for whom I cooked dinner enjoyed it), I need actual evaluation -- I need praise, particularly descriptive, evaluative, praise. "The spinach is really good," tells me I did something I should do again. "The spinach is really good, you made it spicier than last time," tells me that I can spice things up and my target audience will enjoy that more.

Yeah, hearing "you cooked dinner! Good job!" would get on my last nerve. But so would night after night of DP commenting on my technique in absolutely neutral terms because he's not wanting to use evaluative praise in case I start cooking dinner JUST for the praise. Frankly, I'd probably stop cooking dinner if I heard "you used spinach!" every night...

ITA, I love to hear things like "that dinner tasted great huney, thank you!" but if I got... you used alot of herbs or pasta etc...... I'd be wondering if that was good, did you like it, was that an insult made to sound nice?

[Daffodil]

Originally Posted by Deva33mommy

I'm learning a lot in this thread, and it's helping me figure out where I want to be in the whole praise thing.

Yep, me too. I haven't ever been sure how I much I wanted to say to my kids about the things they do really well. I know I don't want to make them feel like I'm evaluating everything they do, but this thread is making me think about how I also don't want them to think I'm paying no attention, or don't care, or don't realize how much work has gone into their accomplishments.

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by savithny

Yeah, hearing "you cooked dinner! Good job!" would get on my last nerve.

That is freakin hilarious. It's much funnier than what I said. lol

But so would night after night of DP commenting on my technique in absolutely neutral terms because he's not wanting to use evaluative praise in case I start cooking dinner JUST for the praise. Frankly, I'd probably stop cooking dinner if I heard "you used spinach!" every night...

Good point there. I'm on the self conscious side when it comes to cooking. It's kinda like hearing "it's...interesting..." lol (but then, did that come from school, and grades, and all that? I say that instead of praise, because I think I was much more affected by grades than by any praise by my parents or grandparents.)

Originally Posted by alexsam

My mom was (is!) an effusive, affectionate, verbal Italian-American. We grew up with lots of hugs, kisses, and I suppose you would call it "praise", but it wasn't that simple. A flat and serious "Good job" was not what it was- it was what you might call "gushy". There was no holding back! But it was real.

That was my grandma. There was constant praise. There's no way it could have been conditional, because EVERYTHING was praiseworthy. lol. I definitely felt unconditionally loved by her and my mom. I thought it was just her wierd way of doing things. lol. She does it with ds, and I'd much rather have that type of praise, than the type that's doled out only when it's truly "earned."
Funny though, I don't remember praise from my mom. I know she did it, and I know that I felt unconditionally loved by her. But I don't remember it at all.

I must say, I really really appreciate how gentle this thread has been. It makes it much easier to have an open mind.