Comparing Circumcision to FGM

[rambunctiouscurls]

A dear friend of mine is a victim of FGM. My dh is circumcized. I see a big difference b/w the two. But really, the principle is the SAME. It bothers me when ppl compare the two but it also bothers me when they don't see the similarities. On the same token, it feels like ppl are triviliazing the violence against women and girls.

I guess, I just want to make sense of it. Any thoughts?

[phoebemommy]

I don't really see how it's different, if it's the clitoral hood that's removed. I think it seems a little different because female genitalia is naturally more hidden and private and the penis is easily accessible. But I don't think that makes it different for the person being violated.

[rambunctiouscurls]

Excellent point. But women who are victims of FGM are never likely to enjoy sex..whereas men can.

I just don't know why it seems hurtful to me to compare but then I contradict myself because mutilation is mutilation. kwim?

I realize this is just a personal issue because I often instinctively cringe when I hear the two being compared. Although, I fully realize the impact on the victim is the same.

[tlh]

i don't think anyone is trivializing FGM.it's just that in most of the world MGM is much more prevelant.most of us do not know a victim of FGM but know many MGM victims.100% of the men i know were circumcised at birth 100% of the women i know are uncircumcised.but if i have the chance to stop a girl from being circumcised i will just like i try to prevent it from happening to boys.if you type MGM into a search you will find alot less people trying to stop it and many promoting it if you type FGM you will find many trying to stop it.i think MGM is trivialized on a daily basis while FGM is condemmed almost everywhere.for instance FGM is illegal to do to anyone under 18 while MGM is still legal for someone to force on a baby/child in most countries.


for your friend she may be able to feel pleasure.it is called clitoris restoration surgery.here are links for more information.can you pass them on to her?

http://living.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=516832004

http://news.independent.co.uk/health/article11123.ece

if her labia is gone she can have that reconstructed too.

http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/cont...act/103/5/1125

[yokosmile]

It is always wretched to remove any part of one's body without his or her consent.

[Papai]

Originally Posted by Mommy2Amira

Excellent point. But women who are victims of FGM are never likely to enjoy sex..whereas men can.

This is not necessarily true. And with FGM it's important to specify which type you're talking about. Infibulation of course is the most severe and the type most likely to impact pleasure and feeling. But there have been several surveys done on circumcised women where they claim to still be able to orgasm and enjoy sex.

I just don't know why it seems hurtful to me to compare but then I contradict myself because mutilation is mutilation. kwim?

I realize this is just a personal issue because I often instinctively cringe when I hear the two being compared. Although, I fully realize the impact on the victim is the same.

The use of FGM in comparsion to MGM is not to trivialize either. You can only draw that conclusion if you view male circumcision as trivial, which most of here don't. The point is to show people that what they already to believe to be a barbaric act when performed on a female, is just as barbaric when performed on a male.

[rambunctiouscurls]

I guess I worded my op wrong. I , in no way shape or form, feel that MGM is trivial. In fact, it is BECAUSE of knowing a friend who is an FGM survivor that I would never circumcize a boy if I ever had one.

I'm just assessing my feelings and trying to figure out why I cringe when I hear the two being compared. Although, consciously I know both are barbaric acts of violence. I realize the principle is the same. It's just that when I look at my dh and then at my friend, he has a relatively healthy sex life and has little shame concerning his genitalia and then there's my friend who doesn't even feel like a woman anymore :
Although, that could be because she remembers the procedure and it was done in a country where it is illegal. a "DR" was paid $100 to mutilate her.

[rambunctiouscurls]

Originally Posted by yokosmile

It is always wretched to remove any part of one's body without his or her consent.

[Arduinna]

IMO it's trivializing the abuse that happens to men by not considering as being as wrong and harmful as what happens to women.

[Papai]

Originally Posted by Mommy2Amira

I guess I worded my op wrong. I , in no way shape or form, feel that MGM is trivial. In fact, it is BECAUSE of knowing a friend who is an FGM survivor that I would never circumcize a boy if I ever had one.

I'm just assessing my feelings and trying to figure out why I cringe when I hear the two being compared. Although, consciously I know both are barbaric acts of violence. I realize the principle is the same. It's just that when I look at my dh and then at my friend, he has a relatively healthy sex life and has little shame concerning his genitalia and then there's my friend who doesn't even feel like a woman anymore :
Although, that could be because she remembers the procedure and it was done in a country where it is illegal. a "DR" was paid $100 to mutilate her.

Try talking to a man who has skin breaks or has suffered amputation as a result of a "botched" circ. :

Or heck, talk to Bm. He said thanks to his circ and subsequent re-circ as a child, he has little to no sex life. :

[LittleRockstar]

Originally Posted by Mommy2Amira

I guess I worded my op wrong. I , in no way shape or form, feel that MGM is trivial. In fact, it is BECAUSE of knowing a friend who is an FGM survivor that I would never circumcize a boy if I ever had one.

I'm just assessing my feelings and trying to figure out why I cringe when I hear the two being compared. Although, consciously I know both are barbaric acts of violence. I realize the principle is the same. It's just that when I look at my dh and then at my friend, he has a relatively healthy sex life and has little shame concerning his genitalia and then there's my friend who doesn't even feel like a woman anymore :
Although, that could be because she remembers the procedure and it was done in a country where it is illegal. a "DR" was paid $100 to mutilate her.

Could it be cultural conditioning making you think on some level that MGM is less cringe-worthy? (I'm seriously asking.)

[Mommiska]

It sounds like your feelings regarding comparing MGM and FGM stem from the different attitudes your female friend and your dh have towards their respective circumcisions.

I think those attitudes are cultural. If your friend is now in a Western society (which it sounds like she is), then she is getting the message loud and clear that what was done to her was wrong, took away her sexuality, was a horrendous mutilation, etc.

In nations where FGM is performed and accepted - if you talk to victims of FGM, they will give you lots and lots of reasons why they are GLAD they are circumcised (cleaner, healthier, etc, etc). They are in a culture which accepts FGM, so they accept it.

That's what's going on for your husband, I would guess - he's in a culture which accepts MGM as 'normal'. So he accepts it as 'normal' - after all, most (if not all) of his friends are circumcised, and they all say they're OK as well.

Whereas your friend is surrounded by uncircumcised women - who feel sorry for her.

I'm pretty sure that a generation from now, when MGM is regarded in the States in the same way that FGM is regarded now, many of the little boys being circumcised right now in the States will feel the same way your friend feels - they'll look around, know that many men have retained all of their sexuality, while theirs was altered without their consent.

They'll have all the information about the sensitivity, etc that they've lost.

And they won't have the comfort of knowing/believing that everyone around them is in the same boat.

MGM and FGM are both genital cutting. And both are deplorable for exactly the same reasons.

[tuansprincess]

:

[rambunctiouscurls]

Originally Posted by Mommiska

It sounds like your feelings regarding comparing MGM and FGM stem from the different attitudes your female friend and your dh have towards their respective circumcisions.

I think those attitudes are cultural. If your friend is now in a Western society (which it sounds like she is), then she is getting the message loud and clear that what was done to her was wrong, took away her sexuality, was a horrendous mutilation, etc.

In nations where FGM is performed and accepted - if you talk to victims of FGM, they will give you lots and lots of reasons why they are GLAD they are circumcised (cleaner, healthier, etc, etc). They are in a culture which accepts FGM, so they accept it.

That's what's going on for your husband, I would guess - he's in a culture which accepts MGM as 'normal'. So he accepts it as 'normal' - after all, most (if not all) of his friends are circumcised, and they all say they're OK as well.

Whereas your friend is surrounded by uncircumcised women - who feel sorry for her.

I'm pretty sure that a generation from now, when MGM is regarded in the States in the same way that FGM is regarded now, many of the little boys being circumcised right now in the States will feel the same way your friend feels - they'll look around, know that many men have retained all of their sexuality, while theirs was altered without their consent.

They'll have all the information about the sensitivity, etc that they've lost.

And they won't have the comfort of knowing/believing that everyone around them is in the same boat.

MGM and FGM are both genital cutting. And both are deplorable for exactly the same reasons.

This is it! Thank you for your insightful comments.

[NamastePlatypus]

Originally Posted by tuansprincess

:

I agree!

I wonder because I don't know but I assume the answer is no, are the men in these FGM areas are circed?: I assume not.
If you research to the babe in uteruo the sex organs are the same for a while and they then form into what the chromosomes tell them. That right there should tell you that it is no different.

[rambunctiouscurls]

Originally Posted by LittleRockstar

Could it be cultural conditioning making you think on some level that MGM is less cringe-worthy? (I'm seriously asking.)

Probably. Thanks for asking though. Gave me something to think and re examine.

[myfairbabies]

It really depends on what types you are talking about. If you compare the most mild fgm (a drop of blood from the clit) with the most horrendoud mgm (like the entire penis is cut off, or those men that are celibate because of it) then really, mgm would be worse. If you compare the worst fgm with the most mild mgm, then fgm is worse. This is what most people do and you have to not think of it that way. Yes, there are extremes and some are worse than others, but they are both mutilations on helpless victims.

[LavenderMae]

Mommiska wrote everything I was going to so another : to her post.

[rambunctiouscurls]

Just wanted to say thanks for your replies. I hope I didn't offend anyone. I just wanted some one to sort of challenge how I felt subconciously, ikwim. and a couple of you did do that!. so for that, I thank you.

I further wanted to reiterate that I'm not comparing the two and triviliazing one. just wanted to explore why one was, (as a pp put it wisely) more cringe-worthy to me. I guess it explains why pro-circ ppl hate it when it's compared to fgm too. .. when in fact pro-fgm cultures have opinions regarding the topic that are eerily similar to pro-circ's.

[Bm31]

Originally Posted by Papai

Try talking to a man who has skin breaks or has suffered amputation as a result of a "botched" circ. :

Or heck, talk to Bm. He said thanks to his circ and subsequent re-circ as a child, he has little to no sex life. :

Yes, I've gotten little or no pleasure from the wreck of a penis they left me with. I'm sure my circ(s) were worse than "average," but nobody really knows just how much it affects each man individually. It's all wrong to me, both FGM and MGM, the only difference is the respective cultural brainwashing.