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What health problems does kefir cause? - Page 2

post #21 of 54
Wait... so it is NO GOOD making Kefir out of pasteurized milk? UH OH!
post #22 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpenguin View Post
to be honest, it really bothers me too. my fil has Crohn's disease (and a host of other health problems, imo mostly the results of him trying to treat his Crohn's with only prescription medications.) i feel so much that he could be healthy if he only really wanted to and actually tried. when i've discussed it with him before, he said "i did this, i did that, nothing worked." ha, well, of course not. it would mean having to stick with it more than a week or two. it's a lifestyle, not a quick fix. anyways, it just makes me sad because i worry he won't live to a ripe old age as he should, and will make a widow out of my mil.
My understanding of Crohn's Disease is that it is stress-induced.
My mother had it when she was married to my father.
She lost a lot of weight. She went from 125 down to 90 pounds. She was 22 years old with two babies. Her doctor told her if she didn't change the stress in her life, she'd die. The stress was her abusive husband. She divorced him with the help and support of her family (including my wonderful grandparents. After a few months, she gained her weight back and had better digestive health. To this day, she has digestive problems, she is lactose intolerant, but occasionally has ice cream, yogurt, or cheese.
post #23 of 54
I think there is a benefit in making kefir with pasteurized milk if that's all you can get. You still get the beneficial bacteria, just not as many as you'd get from raw milk kefir.

Sorry for the misunderstanding Taedareth.

Quote:
Yeah, it should really have a label that says, "WARNING: This product may fly in the face of the medical establishment by improving your health WITHOUT DRUGS."
I just love that!
post #24 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leilalu View Post
See, I may step on some toes(although nobody here,right?) but Crohn's disease bothers me. I mean, I just don't think that someone has to live with it. it can be cured nutritionally....I have a friend with it, who has had surgery,and I see the seriousness of it. But if anything, wouldn't kefir help it?In the long run?
I'd love to hear about any nutritional cure. My friend has tried everything allopathic medicine has to offer, including a major surgical revision of her digestive system and has also tried traditional Chinese medicine, the advice of a naturopath, and a bazillion different dietary remedies. She eats very healthy food and her Crohn's is considered in remission, but her system is still very delicate. Anyway, I didn't want to diss the glories of kefir and I know the store stuff is not the same as stuff you make, but I did want to mention that my friend, who has this issue, had a bad reaction to kefir and she's the only person I've known who reported any trouble with it.
post #25 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by stilllearning85 View Post
Wait... so it is NO GOOD making Kefir out of pasteurized milk? UH OH!
this is how we make ours. Honestly, I don't have money to be a purist at this point. I see nothing so wrong out of making something good out of an inferrior product. Besides, I can tolerate home-ade kefir, not storebought.
post #26 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by stilllearning85 View Post
Wait... so it is NO GOOD making Kefir out of pasteurized milk? UH OH!
No, I am not saying that. If the kefir you consume contains the live bacteria then it's better than nothing.

I was also referring to store bought kefir. They culture the milk with kefir and then they pasteurize it afterwards because if they don't the bottle will pop open in a few hours from built up pressure inside. So in other words, pasteurized kefir is full of dead bacteria. No benefit in that. ::
post #27 of 54
OH I SEE!!! Yeah... that stuff is really NOTHING like home-made Kefir at all!!!
post #28 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowergirl~ View Post
No, I am not saying that. If the kefir you consume contains the live bacteria then it's better than nothing.

I was also referring to store bought kefir. They culture the milk with kefir and then they pasteurize it afterwards because if they don't the bottle will pop open in a few hours from built up pressure inside. So in other words, pasteurized kefir is full of dead bacteria. No benefit in that. ::
are you for real? This doesn't make sense to me. It would be the same as yogurt. I don't think you could really sell it that way-correct me if I'm wrong....
post #29 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowergirl~ View Post
No, I am not saying that. If the kefir you consume contains the live bacteria then it's better than nothing.

I was also referring to store bought kefir. They culture the milk with kefir and then they pasteurize it afterwards because if they don't the bottle will pop open in a few hours from built up pressure inside. So in other words, pasteurized kefir is full of dead bacteria. No benefit in that. ::
There ARE good store-bought kefirs. I occasionally buy one by Liberty (a Quebec company I think) and it has a special top that allows the gases in it to expand. It tastes *exactly* like my homemade stuff.
post #30 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leilalu View Post
are you for real? This doesn't make sense to me. It would be the same as yogurt. I don't think you could really sell it that way-correct me if I'm wrong....
Yogurt doesn't fizz so hopefully no explosions.

But yeah, all the storebought kefir I ever had always had the live bacteria label.
post #31 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by quietserena View Post
Yogurt doesn't fizz so hopefully no explosions.
But yeah, all the storebought kefir I ever had always had the live bacteria label.
The kind we bought came in a cardboard carton and said it contained live acidophilus and other cultures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammaarah View Post
I'd love to hear about any nutritional cure. My friend has tried everything allopathic medicine has to offer, including a major surgical revision of her digestive system and has also tried traditional Chinese medicine, the advice of a naturopath, and a bazillion different dietary remedies. She eats very healthy food and her Crohn's is considered in remission, but her system is still very delicate. Anyway, I didn't want to diss the glories of kefir and I know the store stuff is not the same as stuff you make, but I did want to mention that my friend, who has this issue, had a bad reaction to kefir and she's the only person I've known who reported any trouble with it.
I know the perfect book for you! It's called The Maker's Diet, by Jordan Rubin. In fact, it was by reading this book that I first learned about Nourishing Traditions (it includes some quotes from NT). Jordan Rubin had severe Crohn's disease for a couple of years and tried EVERYTHING to treat it. There is a photograph of him in the book, taken during that time. He literally looks like a skeleton draped in skin. When he started researching traditional nutrition (specifically the diet of the ancient Israelites because he is a Messianic Jew), drinking kefir and eating other traditional foods, he was completely cured. It's an excellent book and I highly recommend it!
post #32 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~ View Post
My understanding of Crohn's Disease is that it is stress-induced.
while i think stress is definitely a factor, i believe Crohn's is entirely multifactorial. my fil had gut damage from the start (was allergic to a bazillion things as a child, still is but denies that he has allergies.) i think gluten is a culprit as well.
post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammaarah View Post
I'd love to hear about any nutritional cure. My friend has tried everything allopathic medicine has to offer, including a major surgical revision of her digestive system and has also tried traditional Chinese medicine, the advice of a naturopath, and a bazillion different dietary remedies. She eats very healthy food and her Crohn's is considered in remission, but her system is still very delicate. Anyway, I didn't want to diss the glories of kefir and I know the store stuff is not the same as stuff you make, but I did want to mention that my friend, who has this issue, had a bad reaction to kefir and she's the only person I've known who reported any trouble with it.
if she's having a bad reaction to kefir, she probably still has too much gut damage and the milk proteins are getting into her bloodstream (i'm assuming) thus causing the negative reaction. glutamine is supposed to be good in helping to heal the gut...avoiding gluten and milk/milk products, finding out if there are any true food allergies or sensitivities and eliminating those foods, etc will all go a long way. i would wander over to the healing the gut thread and see what other good info they have over there. ah, she might also want to do a candida cleanse, if candida is an issue for her as well. candida causes gut damage.
post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammaarah View Post
I'd love to hear about any nutritional cure. My friend has tried everything allopathic medicine has to offer, including a major surgical revision of her digestive system and has also tried traditional Chinese medicine, the advice of a naturopath, and a bazillion different dietary remedies. She eats very healthy food and her Crohn's is considered in remission, but her system is still very delicate. Anyway, I didn't want to diss the glories of kefir and I know the store stuff is not the same as stuff you make, but I did want to mention that my friend, who has this issue, had a bad reaction to kefir and she's the only person I've known who reported any trouble with it.
One nutritional aid I have heard of is aloe... more specifically the mucoligenouspolisaccaride (Sp?) in it that helps heal the mucosal lining of the intestines.. theres alot of low quality ones out there but one that is reputable is supposedly called Digestinol
post #35 of 54
Sorry for not making direct quotes, I just can't get the darn quote feature to work. :

I was very ill with ulcerative colitis for five years. Very ill. The last doc I saw was a lady who is recommended as the top doc in the country for women and IBD issues at the University of Chicago. Her recommendation was to take meds that I was not comfortable with or to have surgery and remove my colon. This was in March.

Every doc I saw all said the same thing. Food is not the cause of IBD's and eating healthy is great, but it won't cure anything. Stress as a cause was brought up many times over. Who has a stress free life? No one. IMO, this is another way of saying that your mind is causing this disease.

Since ds began eating solids, he would complain of tummy aches and rarely had a solid bm. As one suffering terribly with UC, this frightened the living hell out of me. Could I have passed on this terrible disease to my sweet little boy? Dd had problems too, but not as severely as ds. I brought them in to be seen and all of it was brushed off. On to what? Just that kids get the runs. :

After reading and reading, we switched to raw milk. Wonderful, organic raw milk straight from the farm. There seemed to be some improvement for all of us. Things didn't get 'all better', but they weren't worse. As time went on, I became more frustrated and nearly horrified at the sight of my little boy crying on the toilet daily and having no answers for him. Meanwhile, I was doing a dance trying to hold my own back until he could he off the toilet. Dd began hiding when she had 'squishy' bm's and started lying about them. :

How could this be? We were eating organic fruits and veggies, no junk food, sprouted grains, organic chicken, wild salmon, raw milk, raw milk kefir, raw milk yogurt. I became beyond the point of anal about chemicals in my house. We installed an RO filter and had well water. It was out of control. My health spiraled down quicker than ever, along with my weight. I lost 25 pounds in 2 months and was eating everything in sight. Ds was in so much pain and dd was using upstairs bathrooms in hopes that no one would notice.

I went to a specialist. They demanded that I take Flagyl. I was weak. Very weak. I just wanted to be better. I took it. I took two doses and landed in the ER. This may be TMI for some, but I almost had to have a transfusion because I lost so much blood. I refused it and immediately quit the antibiotics. Slowly I regained what I lost from the antibiotics, but didn't get any better than that. Then the worst came. I couldn't hardly even walk up the stairs or just to the kitchen from the living room. My parents were over one day and looked at me in horror. They were scared. Very scared. I just wanted to sleep. I couldn't move anymore.

My dad took me in the next morning. Testing was done. I had C-difficile. Bad. The severly weakened state I was in when I had seen the other doc months prior and took the antibiotics left me wide open for it. They sent me home. Due to allergies, I only had one possible antibiotic to use for this. My mom was crying, my dad speechless and dh was just horrified. They think I had this for three, maybe four months. The kids and I stayed at my parents house for nearly two weeks while I slowly recovered.

It was after this that I went to the U of Chicago. During all of this, I spent a lot of time reading. Lots and lots. I decided to take the kids off of wheat. We saw some improvement. Dd seemed to be fine then. Ds and myself, not so much. I took out gluten on a whim, even though I was refused gluten testing twice. Because, ya know, IBD's aren't related to diet. It was like magic. We all had probably about a 90% improvement.

I still noticed that there seemed to be some issues when we had dairy, even raw. Through other reading, I found that in a damaged gut, the proteins from dairy can be mistaken by the body as gluten. We cut it out for a while and reintroduced it with no problems.

Eating healthy is different for everyone. I did everything 'right', according to the books, but that was not right for us. It's been eight months since I have taken any meds. My back and my bones are trashed from years of steroids. I was told by two different doctors that my only option was to have my entire colon removed. I was told that it was stress that did this to me. I was told that it was normal for ds and dd to have diarrhea. Kids get things. I nearly died from c-difficile. Ds couldn't go a day without tears on the toilet. I couldn't seem to go a week without bleeding or my own gut wrenching pain.

Today, I am 29 and my children are 6 and 4. We are officially gluten free, and still cannot find anyone who will admit that five years of torture for us was as simple as testing for celiac, except for our homeopath. I have gotten into arguments with docs who want to know why I am not taking prednisone anymore. One told me, "It's not related. You better keep your fingers crossed that this fluke keeps up, or you will be having surgery."

I realize that I probably wrote waaaaay too much here. I hope that it can help someone though. I have a friend who gave up and had her colon removed a year and a half ago. She's still dealing with complications. She still hasn't had any allergy testing done either.
post #36 of 54
Wow. Thank you for sharing that. I learned a lot.
Glad you're getting better!
post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama View Post

I was very ill with ulcerative colitis for five years.
I lost 25 pounds in 2 months and was eating everything in sight.
Ds was in so much pain and dd was using upstairs bathrooms in hopes that no one would no
I had C-difficile. The severely weakened state I was in when I had seen the other doc months prior and took the antibiotics left me wide open for it.
I nearly died from c-difficile.
Ds couldn't go a day without tears on the toilet.
I couldn't seem to go a week without bleeding or my own gut wrenching pain.
still cannot find anyone who will admit that five years of torture for us was as simple as testing for celiac, except for our homeopath.
I've never heard of Celiac.
What is it?
I wonder if my mom has that.
She was diagnosed with Chron's Disease and thinks she is lactose intolerant.
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~ View Post
I've never heard of Celiac.
What is it?
I wonder if my mom has that.
She was diagnosed with Chron's Disease and thinks she is lactose intolerant.
Celiac is a gluten intolerance.
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by quietserena View Post
Yogurt doesn't fizz so hopefully no explosions.

But yeah, all the storebought kefir I ever had always had the live bacteria label.
Maybe they add acidophilus or yogurt bacteria after pasteurizing the store bought kefir milk? Bacteria that doesn't cause fizz.

tayndrewsmama, thanks for sharing. My own story is very similar to yours so I'll keep it short. My health have gone up and down for the last 10+ yrs but I became severely ill for about 1 yr. Long story. Did elimination diet, excluded wheat, soy, dairy, gluten, chocolate, coffee etc from my diet. Drastic changes occurred esp from going gluten free. Kept this up for 8 months to allow gut to heal. Reintroduced dairy no problem. Still gluten free and soy free ( with the occasional soy sauce, tamari and sushi that sometimes cause the runs .

I agree that the gluten causes havoc in the gut and dairy intolerance may occur because the gut confuses the milk proteins with gluten. I never bothered to go for celiac testing. I believe the tests are too unreliable. The proof is in the pudding: avoid gluten.

I don't think there is anything wrong with raw milk kefir, it is just that some people have a compromised gut.
post #40 of 54
Thread Starter 
Wow! Ladies, thanks for sharing. You really answered my question. And now that I think about it, this sounds familiar. I have a friend who suffered terribly from gluten intolerance before she finally went to a doc who was familiar with Celiac's and did the simple test to check for it. So she did the research on how to avoid gluten (hard, if you're not cooking everything from scratch) and went gluten-free, with excellent results. But she couldn't tolerate dairy and thought she was lactose-intolerant. After her gut healed (took a year or more) she suddenly could drink milk again without any problems. I thought maybe that was an isolated incident, but after reading the above I can see it's not uncommon. Thanks again
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