UCer's becoming doulas/midwifes - Page 2

[Intertwined]

You definitely walk a line when you are in this professionally rather than just as a voice of advocacy. I've been at births where choices were made that I literally had to recover from the emotional trauma days later. I remember being on the phone with a fellow doula bawling about how it brought back horrid memories of my first birth. Yet, I had to let Mama make her own choices. They are, after all, hers to make. Just as I would not want someone telling me I "can't" have a UC or I am stupid for choosing it, so I cannot do that to a woman making choices I think are dangerous or stupid.

To be a MW or a doula, you need to have the emotional wherewithall to see this kind of stuff happen and be able to process it without making you too jaded. I need to decompress for awhile after that birth, and I questioned whether or not I could still do my job. I decided I could, and I learned a lot from that birth. I think it's important for birth professionals working against the mainstream to have a support system.

[JesseMomme]

I admire the UCers that have gotten into various aspects of birth to help other mamas, and I would seriously consider attending (show up at) the birth of a close friend, if asked; but I have too much emotional baggage left over from my overmanaged, attended births, and if I was in that environment again I would definitely find myself running away to bawl. That wouldn't work out too well.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by NatureMama3

I do believe in UC and I believe it is best, but I also know that like with homeschooling/unschooling, it is not always possible. Since that is the case, I would like there to be compassionate, skilled women as midwives who trust birth.

Love that! Same reason I believe we (dh and I) need to be involved in helping make public schools better......though we unschool. It is all about advocating for children, babies, mothers, and fathers.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by HerthElde

I think it's a great idea. But you need to get past this line of thinking first.

I'm comfortable with the idea of having an unassisted birth. But I've also recently come into a place in my own psyche where I'm recognizing that interdependence is as valuable, if not moreso, than independence. I think the ability to do things alone is great, but I also believe that doesn't mean you have to do it alone. Humans are social animals and there is a lot of value in community. To me, this includes the birth process. Women deserve to have someone around massaging their back or holding their belly through contractions if they desire. Women deserve to be taken care of (again if they desire). That is why I would hire a doula, if ever.
I'm an extremely independent type - I have a very hard time asking anyone for help. The knowledge that it's okay to ask for help sometimes has been extremely empowering for me.
I'm not sure what's going to happen at my next birth. I love having a midwife because I love the aftercare - someone to have tea with, a nonjudgemental ear to listen to my hopes and fears in the days and weeks after the birth. But I've moved since my last one, and I may end up hiring a doula or two instead - just in case I need someone to massage my back (although I have a feeling that I'll probably be solo with this one) or bring me water or . . . I don't know what I'm going to do afterwards.

Truly wonderful points. Thank you.

I actually had 13 people at my homebirth I am a community kind of gal. I personally would never want to have a solo UC. I like being cared for. I liked having food made for me, laundry done, clean up magically happen, tea made for me, a warm bath for me when I was ready, my back rubbed.

I guess was trying to talk more about medical "need" them person need.

I believe it is TOTALLY possible to homebirth/UC in a room full of people. It just may not be for everyone. I loved it!

But either way, I need to make sure that I am not holding on to labels that may hinder my ability to doula/midwife someone. Thank you for pointing that out. Really made me think.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by Isarma

I also love the idea of offering Prenatal or Postnatal care to UCers who want it. That's hard to come by!

[accountclosed3]

I like being cared for. I liked having food made for me, laundry done, clean up magically happen, tea made for me, a warm bath for me when I was ready, my back rubbed.

this is what my husband is for!

he does these things for me now. i don't think i'll do a solo (just me) UC, because i want my husband there and he wants to be there. he's just amazing.

we had the coolest conversation yesterday about some things that have been brought up on the boards and got my brain thinking, and he knows me of course. . .

and we talked about how UC isn't a "standard" for us. it feels right and it's what we want "most" of the types/styles of birth out there, but we also recognize that it's ok to have something different if that's what we want.

my personality type is a "fear type" (using the enneagram system), and so he said (and it was so sweet) that if i become afraid, that it's ok for us to seek whatever support will help me/us with that fear. . .and that it's ok for me to be afraid too.

and i thought that was just the sweetest thing, becuase it was really supportive and loving. he said that he's not going to 'hold me to any standard' and i asserted that i wasn't looking at UC as a standard. . .and that we'd be happy with a midwife or whatever we felt we needed.

so that was really cool.

but seriously, my husband does all of those things for me. i think it's because he's "the best."

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by Chantelhayes

I think it's important for birth professionals working against the mainstream to have a support system.

Really great point.

I have had such a mix of births myself. 2 HIGHLY medical births with OB (pit, waters broke, induced cause I was 5 days over, epidural, cut with #1 and tear....stitches did not take and had to be redone at 10 weeks pp Almost died with both due to preclamsia with #1 and overdosed with epidural with #2) Hospital midwife birth. NO interventions. Freedom to birth however I wanted. Plagued with fear though still Life changing birth for me. Still seeking more control over the process (mostly post birth like bathing baby, not doing all that testing, etc) Next birth at home Had a traditional midwife present (dh more comfortable that way) She asked if a doula could attend for her certification. I said yes and had like 11 others there. It wsa one of the most beautiful experiences of my life! :

I do not know if these experiences will make it hard or easier for me to deal with hospital births. I remember what I felt like in the cold room looking at my OB like he was God and KNOWING he was making decisions that were in my best interest.

Man....I have learned SOOOOOOO much! Praise God!

I just want to help other women in a non-judgemental, loving way to make THEIR OWN decisions.

I wish I would have known someone who would have done that for me with #1 and #2.

For #3 I met a midwife who nearly slapped me when I said I would do an epi if needed. SHe said, "Are you kidding me????? You almost died! Twice! You would willingly do that again???"

I never saw her again as she retired from the practice that week. Little does she know, she changed my life. : I needed someone to challenge my beliefs and make ME answer to myself. It is in great part because of her I came to MDC and researched waterbirth and natural birth. Angelo and Mylee were able to experience peaceful births as a result.

Sorry.....I am blabbing Lots on my heart right now.

[Moonprysm]

I am a doula. I planned to UC with DS (ended up induced with pre-e) and I plan to UC this baby. Some people NEED the hospital. I think a lot of UCers forget that. In my case, I needed the hospital. And had I had a doula, my expirence would've been much different than it was. This time I have someone on stand-by (not an actual doula, but my best friend who is like my clone except she's VERY outspoken while I tend to be non-confrontational) in case I end up in the hospital again. I know she'll make sure that they don't do ANYTHING I haven't asked them to do. That gives me a peace that I needed last time. And that's why I became a doula. To give peace to those who either need the hospital for medical reasons or (like my best friend) just don't feel safe elsewhere. Just because they don't make the same decisions we have doesn't mean they don't need support.

[HerthElde]

Originally Posted by zoebird

I like being cared for. I liked having food made for me, laundry done, clean up magically happen, tea made for me, a warm bath for me when I was ready, my back rubbed.

this is what my husband is for!

That's great!

My husband also does a lot - we're about 50/50 overall, but he gets overwhelmed at times too. When we have a baby, I don't want 100% of the stuff to suddenly be piled on him - if he really enjoyed it, that would be great, but we have 2 other children who have needs as well and so does my dh. I really like to be able to just cuddle in with the family . . . I don't want him to have to worry about that stuff either.

[HerthElde]

Originally Posted by AngelBee

I just want to help other women in a non-judgemental, loving way to make THEIR OWN decisions.

Excellent!! Perfect frame of mind!

btw, CAPPA is against UC

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by zoebird

I like being cared for. I liked having food made for me, laundry done, clean up magically happen, tea made for me, a warm bath for me when I was ready, my back rubbed.

this is what my husband is for!

See...my dh just can't do it. He feels too responsible if something were to go wrong. I want to respect his journey. So....I surround myself with others during birth who are 100% hands off unless I ask, but are 100% dedicated to catering to me if I want it.

[accountclosed3]

for clarification, it's no judgement of anyone's husband.

i think it's cool if/that women want to birth with 13 or 48 people around. i just know it's not my style.

when i feel vulnerable, i retreat--i go solo. i feel much safer moving inward and being private. my husband is one of the few people that i feel comfortable enough with, in whom i trust enough, such that i'll bring him close when i feel vulnerable.

this is why midwifery and doulas and doctors and birth parties don't make sense to me. it's not that no one should do it--people should do what makes them feel good.

but i know that this is avery private thing for me, partly because the whole thing is so intimate and intimacy and vulnerability go together for me, so i know that having a lot of people around would be too much.

so, it'll just be my husband. AND i'm lucky because he spoils me now, as it is. he cooks for me, makes tea, does laundry, helps clean up--all sorts of stuff. he's great.

[rajahkat]

I thought I'd share the difficulties I'm experiencing now that I'm attending births. I thought long and hard about which path to pursue. I knew I didn't want to go to a school. I feel very strongly about the unneccesary procedures that are forced upon (or offered to) women even by midwives. I hear so many midwives talking about the things they had to "unlearn" after going to midwifery school. I don't feel like paying good money to be forcefed things that I then need to unlearn. So, I wanted to go with an apprenticeship.

Now that I'm in one, I find that I'm not really learning anything I don't already know. I'm really not trying to sound arrogant, and I don't mean that I "know" everything. I think you keep learning as you go. I just feel like I've spent a lot of time not only reading about birth, but much time soul-searching and looking at my own spiritual feelings and beliefs about birth, and it's taken me much longer than your standard 3 years in midwifery training. I'm having a difficult time with the unneccessary procedures being done just so the (other) apprentice has the opportunity to mark it off her required skills list. I can't feel good about learning that way. So where does that leave me?

I've thought about just striking out on my own as a lay midwife. It appeals to me. But I wonder about whether I'd actually be able to get any clients, with only a handful of births I've attended. AND I wonder about completely alienating the local midwifery community. That could be ugly.

And I'm struggling with some simple logistics. Finding a lab, how to get added to the "registered midwives" list so I can file birth certificates. (Why are government websites so difficult to navigate?)

Anyway, so those are my problems. Just thought I'd share my experience with those who are contemplating following a similar path.

Kat

[rajahkat]

"Some people NEED the hospital. I think a lot of UCers forget that."

I think you would be wrong. Other than some very "committed" folks who truly believe that UC is always best, I think most folks who birth unassisted and who frequent UC boards are completely in tune with the idea that some people NEED the hospital.

Considering the number of "UC people" I've talked to over the years, I would venture to say that it is simply untrue to say a lot of UCers feel hospitals are unneccessary.

[HerthElde]

Originally Posted by zoebird

for clarification, it's no judgement of anyone's husband.

I "know" you well enough that I knew that Just wanted to present the other side/thought process.

i think it's cool if/that women want to birth with 13 or 48 people around. i just know it's not my style.

when i feel vulnerable, i retreat--i go solo. i feel much safer moving inward and being private. my husband is one of the few people that i feel comfortable enough with, in whom i trust enough, such that i'll bring him close when i feel vulnerable.

this is why midwifery and doulas and doctors and birth parties don't make sense to me. it's not that no one should do it--people should do what makes them feel good.

but i know that this is avery private thing for me, partly because the whole thing is so intimate and intimacy and vulnerability go together for me, so i know that having a lot of people around would be too much.

so, it'll just be my husband. AND i'm lucky because he spoils me now, as it is. he cooks for me, makes tea, does laundry, helps clean up--all sorts of stuff. he's great.

I'm a very open person, with pretty much anyone. There are very very few people with whom I close up. Heck, if I had my 'druthers, I'd be in a polyamorous relationship right now
My first birth, I wanted to be alone, to retreat within myself, and that's what I did . . . until the end, which I was not so happy with.
My second birth, I was a total director, telling everyone where to go, what to do.
I learned from that experience that every labour is different (for me) - ironically, I felt completely out of control with the second, even though from an outsider's perspective I directed everything . . . I forgot to hold on to myself, though.
I find it fascinating, the differences in what we all draw comfort from. More fascinating to me is the differences in what I may draw comfort in at any given time

[Moonprysm]

Originally Posted by rajahkat

"Some people NEED the hospital. I think a lot of UCers forget that."

I think you would be wrong. Other than some very "committed" folks who truly believe that UC is always best, I think most folks who birth unassisted and who frequent UC boards are completely in tune with the idea that some people NEED the hospital.

Considering the number of "UC people" I've talked to over the years, I would venture to say that it is simply untrue to say a lot of UCers feel hospitals are unneccessary.

You must've had a different expirence than I have. I was looked down on by a LOT of people that I knew because I went to the hospital. It was all or nothing to them, and I was even told that I couldn't say that I had had a natural birth despite going totally unmedicated through an intense 5 hour induction. I was one of "those" people who "gave in" to the medical community. Despite my numbers it was even suggested that I didn't really have pre-eclampsia, that my doctor asked me to come in because she knew I was planning a homebirth and needed a reason to get me into the hospital and I was "obviously" too stupid to know that the doctor was lying to me.

So yeah, in my expirence, there are a lot of UC people who forget that the hospital is, occationally, needed.

[BendMidwife]

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[accountclosed3]

hertheld: i'm pretty consistant about being private. LOL

tiffani: i'm sorry that you experienced such harsh judgement. my experience online (i do not know UCers IRL) is that most UCers are supportive of birth choices and wary of medical doctors and their information, but not unsupportive of a mother freely choosing a hospital setting if that's what she feels is best, what she needs.

[Rockies5]

Originally Posted by rajahkat

Now that I'm in one, I find that I'm not really learning anything I don't already know. I'm really not trying to sound arrogant, and I don't mean that I "know" everything. I think you keep learning as you go. I just feel like I've spent a lot of time not only reading about birth, but much time soul-searching and looking at my own spiritual feelings and beliefs about birth, and it's taken me much longer than your standard 3 years in midwifery training. I'm having a difficult time with the unneccessary procedures being done just so the (other) apprentice has the opportunity to mark it off her required skills list. I can't feel good about learning that way. So where does that leave me?


Kat

I totally get this Kat. Exactly how I felt after all my "trainings". I try to make the best of it and tell myself it helped me organize all the information I've gleaned on my own at least.

I plan to go the college route..eventually landing on an OB floor for a few years while I continue schooling until I get a CNM. It's not something I ever thought I'd even consider. But there are many reasons I'm going this way. The most important is that if everyone that believes in women and birth abandons the mainstream way of birth, the division will only become larger. Women need support, and yes, many DO have to give birth in hospitals. I think they deserve fair treatment. No doubt I'll have to unlearn and bit my lip here and there...but while doulaing I've found myself more comfortable with the machines that beep and the weird hospital lighting then I ever thought I could be. I've seen mama have a UC in everything but definition (meaning it was in a hospital, with machines, and with paid attendants--but it was also ALL HER and she was checked in and fully aware and free to do anything she chose, or felt the need for) and birth is just awesome when it's empowering no matter the address of where it happens.

anyhow you'd have to research which (CO is one) but CNMs can practice at home births. I really hope to get my education through both college and apprenticeship with a CPM. We've had a few CNMs doing home births over the years, but I haven't yet considered what the malpractice insurance is like. It's years off for me so I don't want to worry about it yet. I do believe they refer to OBs when you see certain variations, but I know you don't have an OB at the birth of the CNM on the phone with one.

I'm sure it'll be political too. We have many hospital-based CNMs here and they'll probably judge me. Who knows? But we're missing a needed piece of the puzzle here, which is someone who can give antibiotics at home, prescribe medications when needed and catch the baby at the hospital if a transfer is wanted or needed. I'm very stubborn and doubt I'll be too jaded when I'm through. I plan to start the nursing program here later in 08. dh and I are working out some things right now.

Even UC mama's transfer and I hate that the choice is so black and white. either/or for them. Either home and safety, but if intuition or a variation you don't want to handle at home happens you are surrounded with strangers/ surgeons and loose a lot of autonomy. I think it would be very cool to be able to walk on both sides.

[Moonprysm]

Originally Posted by zoebird

hertheld: i'm pretty consistant about being private. LOL

tiffani: i'm sorry that you experienced such harsh judgement. my experience online (i do not know UCers IRL) is that most UCers are supportive of birth choices and wary of medical doctors and their information, but not unsupportive of a mother freely choosing a hospital setting if that's what she feels is best, what she needs.

Thank you. I'm hoping to find more of that atmosphere here. I'm being very careful of where I hang out from now on. lol