The look-like-dad argument FINALLY explained

[wannabe]

I can't be the only one who's mystifed by this one - apart form such subtleties as size and natural variation, there's the whole hair issue.

I thought maybe there was a big market in pre-teen mirkins, but no, a friend got it in one, when told that Americans circ "so they'll look like Dad" he said...

Huh, weird, so American men all shave down there, then?

[phdmama06]

*groan* I have yet to hear a satisfactory "real" explanation for the whole look like daddy deal.

[jessjgh1]

This is the explanation. (Unedited and full of assumptions and generalizations)

Most dads don't do research and don't want to. They don't know much if anything about birth or birth practices
99% of the time its just an excuse- the first thing that pops into the mind. And if that's the best that one can come up with, then when presented with information they will either:
1. easily back down
2. feel trapped by their first answer and stick with it stubbornly
3 feel attacked or that one is saying they have something wrong with them because they are circumcised
4. go on to the next myth (and with that possibly repeat 1 & 2)

I think that MOST of the times we give entirely too much thought and care to our response to the myth-based knee jerk responses. Perhaps it is (even subconcious) out of sensitivity to the fact that he is circumcised.

The response is simple. When YOU were circumcised it was based on certain medical logic that is ENTIRELY discounted now. There is different information now.

Can't we say.... "It is not about you. But just because you were cut does not mean that we should decide to do it... lets explore the issue further and find out what information is out there today."

Jessica

[paquerette]

What I want to know it, what are these same parents going to do if they have a daughter and mom has an episiotomy, or a tear, or a c-section? Matching scars is matching scars, what's the diff? --- oh wait, that's ILLEGAL. :

[ProtoLawyer]

I posted this in another thread, too...but, my SO is not only cut, but has eye damage and facial scars from a car accident. We don't have sons, but if we do, I suppose we'll need to find another drunk driver.

*Every* dad has many physical attributes that are different from *every* son...we don't want matching amputations, matching tattoos, matching obesity -- and we rarely even try for things like matching haircuts or eyeglasses. Why matching penises?

When I was a child, my dad's friends adopted a child out of foster care -- he was 4 and they had him circumcised so he could look like his new daddy. Even then, I was very uncomfortable with that, albeit from the "why would you put a child who would remember that through it?" perspective.

[Mom4tot]

Originally Posted by ProtoLawyer

I posted this in another thread, too...but, my SO is not only cut, but has eye damage and facial scars from a car accident. We don't have sons, but if we do, I suppose we'll need to find another drunk driver.

*Every* dad has many physical attributes that are different from *every* son...we don't want matching amputations, matching tattoos, matching obesity -- and we rarely even try for things like matching haircuts or eyeglasses. Why matching penises?

When I was a child, my dad's friends adopted a child out of foster care -- he was 4 and they had him circumcised so he could look like his new daddy. Even then, I was very uncomfortable with that, albeit from the "why would you put a child who would remember that through it?" perspective.

Wow to the second part of your story. I heard a mom say once, what if the dad is missing an arm, will they remove the baby's arm too?? Why is the foreskin seen as disposable?

[nd_deadhead]

I've always suggested that if a Dad wants his genitals to match his son's that he should shave his pubic hair and pack ice in his shorts.

Dads can have facial hair, bald heads, glasses, scars, beer bellies - no one is concerned that Junior doesn't have all these attributes. My sons have my blond hair, blue eyes, and little toes; it has never bothered them that they don't have their Dad's gray hair, brown eyes, and long toes.

As often as "Look like Dad", I've heard "Like Father, like Son", which I think is a more realistic perspective. They don't necessarily want to "match", but they figure that if it was "good enough" for the Dad, it's good enough for the baby. Of course this doesn't make sense either, but it isn't quite as far-fetched as the matching argument.

[kluella]

Yeah, my husband is missing half a toe due to a lawnmower accident, which ruined what had the potential to be a very successful baseball career. So I guess when my boy is born we need to get out the mower so he'll look just like dad.....:

[savienu]

My take on this is simple: Americans think the circumcised penis is "normal." They are totally okay with saying, "Well, Daddy was in an accident and lost part of his toe" if the child would ever question why he has something Daddy doesn't, but we as a culture don't make that leap to the foreskin because the foreskin is not what we are used to. I think, honestly, most Americans treat the foreskin as a birth defect, and, really, why not correct a "defect" if you can?

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead

I've always suggested that if a Dad wants his genitals to match his son's that he should shave his pubic hair and pack ice in his shorts.

Yeah, my girlfriends and I always thought that comparing a man's penis to that of a two year olds was an insult. Who knew they actually do it themselves?

[Mamato3wild ponnie]

American's are old school...what they did in the past worked for them so they continue to do it now...they dont like change. Yet American's don't realize that a huge majority of the world does not circ any more.

[Ironica]

It's not just circumcision. How many people end up emulating the parenting they were subjected to, if only to avoid offending their own parents? "I was spanked, and I turned out great!" "My mom never nursed *me*, and I'm fine!" "I was circumcised, so my son will be too." It's all the same thing. Mostly, an unwillingness to grow up and be a different person than our parents raised us to be.

(Of course, on this issue, it's a lot easier for me... after all, if I'd been male, I would have been left intact. ;-)

[Fyrestorm]

I believe it is as simple as denial...It was done to me and I'm fine therefore it's the thing to do. If I don't cut my son, I will have to admit that I was damaged...please don't tell me that my penis is damaged because it's perfect and my son's will be too...and around and around it goes.

[hakunangovi]

I'm sure Fyrestorm is right with it being DENIAL, but I have a huge problem understanding why it is so hard for so many men to admit that they have been damaged. To me it is simple logic. Whether one is missing a toe, an eye, a foreskin, or a finger, it stands to reason that when one is missing a functional body part (and every part is functional) then your body is "damaged" and "function" has been impaired.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by hakunangovi

I'm sure Fyrestorm is right with it being DENIAL, but I have a huge problem understanding why it is so hard for so many men to admit that they have been damaged. To me it is simple logic. Whether one is missing a toe, an eye, a foreskin, or a finger, it stands to reason that when one is missing a functional body part (and every part is functional) then your body is "damaged" and "function" has been impaired.

Unfortunately, for a lot of men, much of their identity is wrapped up in their penis. Some are downright obsessed with it's perfection. It takes a big man (no pun intended) to admit that it might not be perfect and that they were mutilated.

You might want to read this essay:

The Vulnerability of Men

First of all, you need to understand that circumcised men are cornered on this issue. They were circumcised without their consent and have no inherent knowledge of what being intact is like. Even though they rarely will discuss the issue, they are keenly aware that they have been surgically altered in a very private way. There are several ways for a man to deal with this issue but the safest way, psychologically speaking, is to believe at all cost that the surgery performed on them was an enhancement and is preferred by women. Confirmation of this belief is essential to their sexual self-image. Do I need to tell you that sexual self-image is a major issue for men? Didn�t think so.
Now put yourself in the shoes of the circumcised man. He asks for very little. All he wants is football on Sunday and to be assured that there is nothing wrong with his package. A nice bonus would be that women actually prefer it the way it is. Then along comes the newly pregnant wife and the issue of circumcision is no more personal to her than a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and she starts openly discussing it with him with all the casualness that she would with her gal pals down at the salon. Yikes! Batten down the hatch. Incoming torpedo!!!! At first the strategy is to dismiss her without appearing to be alarmed. He�ll probably toss back the usual "It's not clean" or "That could cause health problems" hoping this will scare her off since he assumes she�s heard those things before. He won�t seem particularly disturbed at first. Its part of being a man to not show vulnerability.

[JamesMama]

IMO it's because fathers don't want to have to explain to their son why they are 'missing' something of such an 'important' body part. What man wants to think of his penis as missing something?

Eyeglasses, etc are a fact of life.

But "Daddy, why doesn't YOUR penis have this?" thats a bit of a stretch to men...especially men in our society where so much of their self esteem and self worth is tied to their penis.

My husband has a pretty rare fertility condition known as "Retrograde Ejaculation" it causes the sperm to go into his bladder rather than out. I can't tell you how much of a blow this was so his manhood. To know that not only was our 16 months of infertility 'his fault' but that he'll never father children without exact planning and medication.

[homemademomma]

http://wreckingboy.livejournal.com/318545.html
this is my favorite article dealing with dads and circ

[AntoninBeGonin]

Originally Posted by wannabe

Yeah, my girlfriends and I always thought that comparing a man's penis to that of a two year olds was an insult. Who knew they actually do it themselves?

[Julz6871]

Okay, okay, I'll admit it................I would have used this argument had I known my friends were gonna circ. Dad is intact and circ'ed because he was "teased and had an odor, health myths, etc."

I may not have used it because I hate being a hypocrite, but it sure would have been tempting. Like a reaction when you know there is not enough logic or truth in the world that they will hear. Perhaps it is the same in reverse...........when you have shot down all their logic and myths, they have to fall back on something you cannot deny......whether or not the child has whiskers or scars or tattoos, the exposed head of the penis will look like a chip off the old block. Gross.