How not to condescend to those who choose to formula-feed - Page 2

[Mandynee22]

Originally Posted by mamamarley

I am struggling with this in my daily life right now. My husband's cousin has a 5-wk-old infant whom she breastfed for two days before switching to formula because bf'ing was too hard. (But hey, the baby got some colostrum, and that's all that really matters, right? ).

Ya know... someone actually said this to me once at a bday party. Andrew was maybe 6 months old and I was nursing him sitting at a table with two young (18 yr old) pregnant girls and one of the people at the party's hubbys. He said "breastfeeding after 6 weeks is really pointless. They even tell you that at the hospital"
We ALL went off about how that is just not true blah blah. He just gave one of those "you kids are so ridiculous and stupid" looks
Update on those girls... one had the baby, was EPing (for no reason...) now only FF's
The other just put up pics of her baby on her myspace. I went to go comment. Till I saw one of the baby being FF while still in the hospital Snobby? Maybe. But please don't bash since this is really the only place I feel ok admitting it

[MamaBear1976]

Originally Posted by MaryJaneLouise

I blame "The Man".

Seriously, I usually don't bring the topic up, especially with women I know who mostly FF'ed their kids. Many times they will bring it up with me, kind of wistfully, like "I tried but it was too hard / I had to go back to work / :" so I generally (1) agree that it IS hard, especially in the first few weeks and (2) that most medical doctors and nurses are clueless and most hospitals try to give lip service to bfing without providing real help and without telling people there ARE real resources (LLL & LC & medications & herbs to help with low supply). You know, "It's so sad when someone stops without knowing what information is out there to help with their problem."

It's easier to talk about what IS available for help when you frame it in terms of someone else withholding information. Which is true to a point.

Oh yes, it is! I think that's a very smart way of saying it, actually, because it is "withholding information." When nurses separate babies from their moms upon birth, that's a form of withholding information. The best thing for both mother and baby would be to keep them together. Why separate them if there's no medical need? And that's just ONE example! There are countless others!

Ruthla, I liked what you said too. As for knowing mothers who chose to formula-feed from the start... The ones I know did it for subsequent kids, but almost all (if not all) the women I know who did this at least tried to breastfeed their first child. The ones who started formula-feeding from the beginning with their second and subsequent children did so because they couldn't make it work out with the first one and probably knew ahead of time that they wouldn't get any support the second time around either (an understandable defense mechanism).

FWIW, I think the formula-feeding rates in this country are more evidence that we live in a misogynistic and child-unfriendly society, not that mothers don't love their children.

[Mandynee22]

Originally Posted by MamaBear1976

Hm. It's so strange to read this, because I don't think I've ever met anyone who really, truly chose to formula-feed (without even trying to breastfeed) while knowing how detrimental formula was.

I can't claim to have all the knowledge and experience in this forum, though, so I'll continue to listen, of course. But something tells me it is rare for a mom to purposefully abuse her child knowingly. I think it's more that the decision to formula-feed among most mainstream moms is seen as harmless because ill effects aren't immediately obvious. Babies seem to thrive off formula, so these mothers trust their own eyes and their own circumstances (and pressure from the people they care the most about) more than they're going to trust a total stranger telling them breastfeeding is the biological norm...

Anyway, bottom line for me is that there's pretty much no mother I can't be friends with, barring severe psychological issues (like sociopathic tendencies, for example). If I have ever met a mom who didn't love her children and didn't want the best for them (no matter how her children were fed), she was probably a rare exception and not the rule. I would rather believe (and DO believe) that all women want what's best for their children, and if they make a decision that is contrary to that, it's because they DON'T know or DON'T believe their decision was harmful for their child(ren)... Not because they're bad people and don't care about hurting their kids. I hope this is making sense.

That's what I said... except the part about there's no mother I can't be friends with- because there are plenty.
I said that I can't be friends with someone who knows how great BFing is for babies but chooses to FF for their own convienience. I thought that implied that they didn't know how crappy formula is (Like I didn't know when I fed it to my DD thinking what I was doing was best)
I don't think that FFers don't care about their kids either.

[Mandynee22]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Just so you know- I don't know anybody personally who FF from birth and never even tried to BF. I know some women who gave up after a couple of week,s but none who didnt' even pretend to try.

I know several (5 that I can think of offhand and one pregnant momma who has no plans to even try) so maybe that's why my opinions are a little different than PPs

[MamaBear1976]

Originally Posted by Mandynee22

Ya know... someone actually said this to me once at a bday party. Andrew was maybe 6 months old and I was nursing him sitting at a table with two young (18 yr old) pregnant girls and one of the people at the party's hubbys. He said "breastfeeding after 6 weeks is really pointless. They even tell you that at the hospital"
We ALL went off about how that is just not true blah blah. He just gave one of those "you kids are so ridiculous and stupid" looks
Update on those girls... one had the baby, was EPing (for no reason...)

Do you know for certain that it was "for no reason" that she was EPing? I'm not trying to be confrontational here; I'm asking an honest question. I EP, and not everyone knows I have hypoplasia and have had multiple, duct-damaging breast surgeries. Not everyone knows I can't produce enough milk. Not everyone knows my baby refuses to latch on, and has for months. Not everyone knows every single detail of my lactational experience, and if I found out someone was saying I was EPing "for no reason," I would be tempted to cut them out of my life permanently. Them's fightin' words.

(Maybe the girl was raped, doesn't want to talk about it, and does not feel comfortable with the baby latched on... Maybe she has no frame of reference for this new skill because no one in her family could teach her how to breastfeed... Maybe the baby doesn't latch on easily and fusses, and it worries her... Maybe her nipples have been sucked raw because of an unresolved, bad latch, and she couldn't figure out how to fix it -- and nor could a lactation consultant... It could be for ANY reason that she started EPing... EPing is MORE trouble than breastfeeding, much more work, so the fact that she is EPing indicates she loves her baby VERY much and is willing to do whatever she can to get her baby breastmilk...)

now only FF's
The other just put up pics of her baby on her myspace. I went to go comment. Till I saw one of the baby being FF while still in the hospital Snobby? Maybe. But please don't bash since this is really the only place I feel ok admitting it

I'm not going to bash you. I have to admit that it bothers me when I see someone feeding a newborn formula... But think of it this way: She's 18. She's in a hospital, a powerful institution where the nurses are handing her a bottle of formula when her baby starts crying, telling her her baby is hungry. At 18, I would have been inclined to believe a nurse if/when she told me that supplementing with formula wouldn't damage the breastfeeding relationship. I wouldn't now, but now I have the benefit of years more experience than I did at 18. At eighteen, I don't think I would have been able to say no to that kind of pressure, especially after just having given birth. It was hard enough to fight the hospital at my age now!

I don't think these girls are being "lazy" or "bad" or "not worth interacting with" (not saying you said that, btw, just speaking in general). I think they've just been sabotaged, and if we don't reel them in somehow, the formula companies will. They (moms) will pick a side, though. I'd rather have it be the lactivist side and not the one of the formula pushers (marketers).

[annettemarie]

Mamas, I am respectfully asking that we keep the purpose of the Lactivism forum in mind. You can read it here.

The Lactivism forum is not intended to be a place where MDCers to bash mothers who are formula feeding. It is understandable that lactivists become frustrated over the mainstream formula feeding culture. Criticizing ideas, campaigns, and actions that negatively impact breastfeeding are all acceptable forms of lactivism. Name calling, criticizing individuals, or attacking women who choose to formula feed as a group are not.

[i*wish]

If I wasn't friends with ff-ing moms I'd have 2 friends. I don't have many more than that but most of my friends 'tried' breastfeeding and it didn't work out.... It would've worked if it were me but I have years-worth of research and knowledge-seeking behind my choice to breastfeed. The fact is that some women just aren't that generally interested in learning all there is to know on this subject...it just doesn't stand out to them, for whatever reason, and so they go on what little they read, what I tell them (and they *know* how strongly I feel), and what their peds/nurses tell them. There's LOADS of misinformation out there and unless you've got the time and inclination to sift through it all your basically up a creek. Most women don't even think about infant feeding before they're pregnant...THen they learn 'breast is best' and think 'ok, i'll do that'. Then when it's not simple to start with they throw in the towel. How can we blame a women who's trying to breastfeed...baby has a good latch (no nurse or doctor bothered to check) and "they're" checking the baby's 'borderline' blood sugar and telling mom she needs to supplement to keep the sugars up. The doctor came in and said this....the doctor. *Most* women trust the almighty doctor and that's that. They don't really *care* about all this as much as we do and they just want to go about their business and do what's 'best'...what they truly believe is 'best'.....even though we all know it's not. Another friends ped (yes, ped) was 'surprised' that her baby gained so much weight on only breastmilk and also let her know that breastfeeding was recommended for 6 months...:

Sigh...it's just hard to be in the position of knowing *everything* and not being able to get that across. There is A LOT of work against successful breastfeeding at every turn, it seems. I can't judge a woman who formula feeds for whatever reason because the powers that be don't have their act together and the message is so mixed. It's pathetic.

Basically women live what they know and most women (around me anyway) know bottles/ounces per day/hours between feedings/ and similac/enfamil/costco brand whatever!

ETA: it took me a long time to feel this way... I used to feel very differently.

[MamaBear1976]

Originally Posted by Mandynee22

That's what I said... except the part about there's no mother I can't be friends with- because there are plenty.
I said that I can't be friends with someone who knows how great BFing is for babies but chooses to FF for their own convienience.

How are you defining "their own convenience?" Let me share something with you. I have a friend (now 30) who was formula-fed. Her mother is/was extremely well-educated and well-read -- it's a safe assumption she knows/knew about the benefits of breastfeeding... She is very well-off, yet she "chose" to formula-feed and work. As far as I know, she is totally unapologetic about feeding her children formula, even today. I could choose to make all kinds of assumptions about this woman based on this. I could say to myself, "Well, I can't be friends with her because she 'chose' to formula-feed her child out of convenience."

Or...

I could choose to look at it another way... Maybe she only thinks she knows about the benefits of breastfeeding. Maybe the truth is that she doesn't think those benefits are real, because when she fed her children formula, she didn't see any immediate negative effects (my friend suffers from obesity now, btw, among other health problems). Maybe something happened to this woman that did not allow her to breastfeed at that time in her life when she gave birth to her first child. Maybe after she gave birth in the hospital, she did try to breastfeed, but it didn't work out, and now all I know is the condensed version of her infant feeding "choice." She is unapologetic about it because she can't change the past, or how hard her situation was, so she might as well accept it and embrace it fully instead of wallowing in self-pity. I can understand that; I can even relate to it.

I can't assume that I wouldn't be friends with someone just because of some perception (whether told to me by someone else, or told to me by the woman in question) that said woman "chose" to feed her infant formula, "knowing" all the repercussions. I think there's always more to the story, and I'm usually right about this.

I thought that implied that they didn't know how crappy formula is (Like I didn't know when I fed it to my DD thinking what I was doing was best)
I don't think that FFers don't care about their kids either.

Ah, good. I'm kind of confused still, though. You still don't think you could be friends with someone like this, even though you recognize that, in all likelihood, they care about their kids? Aren't you basing your exclusion of them on something they couldn't really control?

[Sheal]

Originally Posted by sheilajolene

I can not be friends with someone who chooses to FF. I have tried, I really have. The first and most important reason why I can't is because if they are FF, then they are probably doing a lot of other non-AP things, as well. It's too hard to be friends with someone who does everything opposite of me. And honestly, I don't want a lot of non-AP around my baby. Maybe it's different when the kids are older, but right now I can't be around it. The other problem is that I don't know how to not condescend. They aren't doing what's best for their child; that's the bottom line. They have not tried to educate themselves and I don't know how to keep my mouth shut. :

I'm sorry, I couldn't read this and not respond and you're right to duck...

Quite frankly I resent your statements greatly. I am AP\GD all the way (though I am as human as the next person and do have moments of "failure" or bad mommy moments but for the most part I do my damnest to adhere to my desired parenting techniques of AP\GD). I FF my first 4 children due to mis information, NICU care (for one of two prems, my micro prem), sabotage and honestly emotional distress (4th child) and fear of failure for the 4th time. Believe me, I bloody well tried my damdest to BF 3 of 4 and just about nearly killed myself emotionally with the 3rd to the point my MIL told me that I was not who I usually am and it was causing extreme emotional distress on my personal mental well being. I begged, pleaded, prayed and cried every damned night and day to BF my first 3 and gave up by the time I had my fourth and resigned myself to being a total failure as a mom because I couldn't do it. Technically, you can say I chose to FF (on a technicality). I EBF my fifth, he has been EBF from DAY ONE! (he's 7 mo uncorrected age)

NOT all FF'ers are not AP as you may think. I think that it's narrow minded and discriminatory and proves the point of the original post. It disgusts me to see such judgmental BS like these types of statements quoted above. You have no idea what it is like to fail at it despite desperately trying to succeed at it. You have no idea what the background is when seeing someone FF instead of BF. How crass is that!


:

It usually takes a lot to offend me but this happens to be a severely open and sore spot for me.

[MamaBear1976]

Originally Posted by Sheal

I'm sorry, I couldn't read this and not respond and you're right to duck...

Quite frankly I resent your statements greatly. I am AP\GD all the way (though I am as human as the next person and do have moments of "failure" or bad mommy moments but for the most part I do my damnest to adhere to my desired parenting techniques of AP\GD). I FF my first 4 children due to mis information, NICU care (for one of two prems, my micro prem), sabotage and honestly emotional distress (4th child) and fear of failure for the 4th time. Believe me, I bloody well tried my damdest to BF 3 of 4 and just about nearly killed myself emotionally with the 3rd to the point my MIL told me that I was not who I usually am and it was causing extreme emotional distress on my personal mental well being. I begged, pleaded, prayed and cried every damned night and day to BF my first 3 and gave up by the time I had my fourth and resigned myself to being a total failure as a mom because I couldn't do it. Technically, you can say I chose to FF (on a technicality). I EBF my fifth, he has been EBF from DAY ONE! (he's 7 mo uncorrected age)

NOT all FF'ers are not AP as you may think. I think that it's narrow minded and discriminatory and proves the point of the original post. It disgusts me to see such judgmental BS like these types of statements quoted above. You have no idea what it is like to fail at it despite desperately trying to succeed at it. You have no idea what the background is when seeing someone FF instead of BF. How crass is that!


:

It usually takes a lot to offend me but this happens to be a severely open and sore spot for me.

[i*wish]

Originally Posted by Sheal

Quite frankly I resent your statements greatly. I am AP\GD all the way (though I am as human as the next person and do have moments of "failure" or bad mommy moments but for the most part I do my damnest to adhere to my desired parenting techniques of AP\GD). I FF my first 4 children due to mis information, NICU care (for one of two prems, my micro prem), sabotage and honestly emotional distress (4th child) and fear of failure for the 4th time. Believe me, I bloody well tried my damdest to BF 3 of 4 and just about nearly killed myself emotionally with the 3rd to the point my MIL told me that I was not who I usually am and it was causing extreme emotional distress on my personal mental well being. I begged, pleaded, prayed and cried every damned night and day to BF my first 3 and gave up by the time I had my fourth and resigned myself to being a total failure as a mom because I couldn't do it. Technically, you can say I chose to FF (on a technicality). I EBF my fifth, he has been EBF from DAY ONE! (he's 7 mo uncorrected age)

[Sheal]

Originally Posted by i*wish

Originally Posted by MamaBear1976

Thanks, I could use some love. Not once has a lactivist post left me in tears. Once again something insensitive like this can cause an FF mom to be left feeling a very heavily weighted guilt that never leaves and leaves her feeling like a failure as a mother because she couldn't BF even though she indeed tried.

No one has a right to discriminate against a person for choice or non-choice (as in didn't have a choice). Every day I battle with the guilt and sense of failure my only restitution is that my final child is and will be EBF for a very long time to come. I fought hard to EBF my 5th child. I also fought the fear, guilt and emotional distress coming to the decision to try for a fifth and final time at EBF. Unfortunately, I had to over come obstacles I didn't foresee like him being a prem, blatant attempts to sabotage my BF relationship in the NICU, the pain of a c\s and a b!tch nurse who refused to let me try BF in the first few days and seperation from my son over 48 hours worth.

I just don't understand comments like that, is it meant to chop a mama down at the knees because they didn't have the natural ability to BF like other mamas? Is it meant to kick someone when they are down already? Seriously, it's one of those types of statements that make you go "WTF? Gee thanks"

Sheal

[MamaBear1976]

Originally Posted by Sheal

Thanks, I could use some love. Not once has a lactivist post left me in tears. Once again something insensitive like this can cause an FF mom to be left feeling a very heavily weighted guilt that never leaves and leaves her feeling like a failure as a mother because she couldn't BF even though she indeed tried.

No one has a right to discriminate against a person for choice or non-choice (as in didn't have a choice). Every day I battle with the guilt and sense of failure my only restitution is that my final child is and will be EBF for a very long time to come. I fought hard to EBF my 5th child. I also fought the fear, guilt and emotional distress coming to the decision to try for a fifth and final time at EBF. Unfortunately, I had to over come obstacles I didn't foresee like him being a prem, blatant attempts to sabotage my BF relationship in the NICU, the pain of a c\s and a b!tch nurse who refused to let me try BF in the first few days and seperation from my son over 48 hours worth.

I just don't understand comments like that, is it meant to chop a mama down at the knees because they didn't have the natural ability to BF like other mamas? Is it meant to kick someone when they are down already? Seriously, it's one of those types of statements that make you go "WTF? Gee thanks"

Sheal

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can speak for myself and tell you that when I've been guilty of saying something insensitive, it's usually because I wasn't really thinking... ETA: Though there have been times where I've written something that didn't accurately or completely express what I was thinking, and it caused confusion and may have seemed insensitive to whoever was offended by it...

I also think that we are limited by our own experiences, and sometimes that can give us tunnel vision, so whereas one person may have a relatively easy time of learning to breastfeed, it may be difficult for that person to understand why anyone would fail. Or, even if there was difficulty involved, there could be a sort of righteous indignation that "I could overcome my difficulties; why can't you?" -- even though no two situations are ever equivalent. If everyone were to always look at the context of another person's situation instead of merely the outcome of their actions, there would be a lot less conflict in the world.

FWIW, I have had a bear of a time in my own breastfeeding experience. Rivers of tears have been shed over it. In essence, I "failed" because I'm an EP'er AND I never could produce enough milk (still can't). So I supplement with formula. Not a lot of people understand my situation; it takes too long to explain it, and I've had ALL KINDS of stupid assumptions made about me (Stupid Assumption #1: "You can't be a lactivist because you don't even breastfeed... And you use formula!"). I channeled all my anger and frustration into writing accurately about breastfeeding and lactation-related issues in the hopes that something I write may help someone else, or several someone elses. So far, it's worked out well. Better than any therapy or drug I know. (It's much better than crying; I highly recommend it. )

[Sheal]

Originally Posted by MamaBear1976

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can speak for myself and tell you that when I've been guilty of saying something insensitive, it's usually because I wasn't really thinking...

I also think that we are limited by our own experiences, and sometimes that can give us tunnel vision, so whereas one person may have a relatively easy time of learning to breastfeed, it may be difficult for that person to understand why anyone would fail. Or, even if there was difficulty involved, there could be a sort of righteous indignation that "I could overcome my difficulties; why can't you?" -- even though no two situations are ever equivalent. If everyone were to always look at the context of another person's situation instead of merely the outcome of their actions, there would be a lot less conflict in the world.

FWIW, I have had a bear of a time in my own breastfeeding experience. Rivers of tears have been shed over it. In essence, I "failed" because I'm an EP'er AND I never could produce enough milk (still can't). So I supplement with formula. Not a lot of people understand my situation; it takes too long to explain it, and I've had ALL KINDS of stupid assumptions made about me (Stupid Assumption #1: "You can't be a lactivist because you don't even breastfeed... And you use formula!"). I channeled all my anger and frustration into writing accurately about breastfeeding and lactation-related issues in the hopes that something I write may help someone else, or several someone elses. So far, it's worked out well. Better than any therapy or drug I know. (It's much better than crying; I highly recommend it. )

You have a very valid point. It still makes me go "WTF?" but a lot of different things make people do that.

I've done pretty much the same as you over the last few months, trying to inform in a gentle manner about lactivism and human lactation (even a doc or two I've "educated" gently with reading material and change their minds). It still stings to see comments like that, maybe because I'm fairly new to the EBF relationship. After so many failures it still sticks in my mind like a nagging thorn in the side kwim? You, to me, are a successful bf mama - and any other mama who EP's is gunuinely one of the strongest bf'ing mama's out there because you took the time, you shed the tears and still gave to your babies what was best even if that meant supp with formula too. It's takes a special and strong person to EP, one with great patience and a strong will. I envy the women who chose to EP when EBF is not an option. I also respect the women who FF when EBF failed because I know what it's like to either have to EFF or supp formula (I had to supp. with the fifth for slow weight gain and was terrified it would kill our BF relationship).

I don't normally go off like that but this subject is an extremely sore spot with me and unfortunately will probably always be a bit of a sore spot.

I probably didn't handle the comments all that well, and was quite immature about it but like I said I am human too

Thank you for sharing your own situation, I feel less alone if that makes sense...

[WC_hapamama]

Originally Posted by Sheal

I

NOT all FF'ers are not AP as you may think. I think that it's narrow minded and discriminatory and proves the point of the original post. It disgusts me to see such judgmental BS like these types of statements quoted above. You have no idea what it is like to fail at it despite desperately trying to succeed at it. You have no idea what the background is when seeing someone FF instead of BF. How crass is that!

I FF'ed my first. I pumped breastmilk for 9 weeks until the stress of caring for a colicky baby alone (DH was 400 miles away), plus pumping with a crappy pump, with no real support, did me in. My supply crapped out.

I went on to breastfeed my subsequent children, who never had a drop of formula.

I did a lot of other AP things, like baby wearing and co-sleeping. Okay, we used disposable diapers and we vaccinate our kids, but last time I checked, attachment parenting wasn't an "all or nothing" club.

[sonrisaa29]

Originally Posted by sheilajolene

I can not be friends with someone who chooses to FF. I have tried, I really have. The first and most important reason why I can't is because if they are FF, then they are probably doing a lot of other non-AP things, as well. It's too hard to be friends with someone who does everything opposite of me. And honestly, I don't want a lot of non-AP around my baby. Maybe it's different when the kids are older, but right now I can't be around it. The other problem is that I don't know how to not condescend. They aren't doing what's best for their child; that's the bottom line. They have not tried to educate themselves and I don't know how to keep my mouth shut. :

I really think these are the kind of statements that don't help lactivism at all. Just because a woman FF doesn't mean that she's not AP. For example I chose not to BF because I knew my breastmilk could kill my child. While I had hoped to BF for 2 weeks (since this was the longest I could stay off my meds) to give him some, LLL refused to help me since they knew I was planning on not establishing a BF relationship.

So what if a child hates be worn, and hates co-sleeping? Is it better the parents force the child to "like" those things? I don't find that very AP at all since its not responding to what your child needs and likes are.

What about a woman who adopts a child? She's not worthy of your friendship because she chooses not to BF?

[mamamarley]

I want to apologize sincerely to anyone who was at all offended by my previous post. At the time I am typing this, no one had mentioned it specifically offending them, but did mention other posts with a similar tone to mine that they found offensive, so... My apologies.

That said, I feel a little bit of a need to clarify what I was trying to get at with my last post.. I live in a rural, poverty-stricken area. The schools generally suck, there are not a lot of better than minimum wage opportunities job-wise, and since a lot of the parents of people in my generation (I'm 25) and slightly younger are hard-core super-fundies, there's a lot of emphasis on abstinence, and a lot of (what I see as) resultant young (teenage, high school age) parents. I have found, through personal experience, that people of my age and social class (dh, dd, and I get by on less than $1k/mo) tend to not think for themselves. While I don't see anyone necessarily saying, "The Man knows what's best for me! Corporations have my best interests in mind! I love the establishment!" there is a LOT of just going with the flow. Very sheeple-y, kwim? It is the ff'ers with this attitude that bother me.

My older sister is kinda an example. I love her dearly, but she is very "go with the flow" and not so much, "hey wait, is this really a good idea?" When she was pregnant - both times - she planned to bf, I think primarily because she saw my mother bf my brother and myself (we're a little more than a decade younger than her) and was encouraged to bf by Mom. She did not read anything about pregnancy, birth, or breastfeeding during either pregnancy.

No really. She read nothing. I am not joking. It's like, if it wasn't important enough for someone else to spell it out for her, why bother?

She had a c-section with her oldest, I think because of FTP. She tried to bf, it was terribly painful and she was bleeding more than lactating. The hospital staff told her she wasn't making enough milk, and they took her son and started to supplement. No LC, no help, just, "Hey, you suck at this, let us do something else then!" Her second and last, a daughter, was born with the help of vacuum extraction, again FTP. Same story with the bf.

She had terrible experiences with both births and bf'ing attempts. And I can't help but feel it's kinda her fault, because she did NOTHING to prepare for them.

It's that that irks me, sickens me. It's knowing that there are people who just do what seems easiest.. Okay, sure, they love their babies.. but wth? It just seems so irresponsible and UNloving to me to not do everything you can to ensure that things are as perfect for your baby as you can make them.

I understand some women try and fail. That happens with every human activity. It's the ones who give it a half-hearted try or no try at all and shrug it off.. and for the sake of their children, and their children's children, I feel like something needs to be done to help. I think that's kinda what the point of this thread was supposed to be - when you feel like they're not even giving it the ol' college try, what do you do? do you say anything? if so, how do you come off as friendly and helpful and not scary and mean? or do you just do what you're doing and hope they want to emulate you? or do nothing?

[CherryBomb]

I'm not huffy with people who choose to formula feed, but I'm also not going to water down how awesome breastfeeding is and lie and tell them formula is just as good. Anyone who knows me knows better than to ask my opinion if they don't really want it. :

Frankly, my experience has been that many people who choose to formula feed KNOW it's not the best choice for their baby but simply don't care. I have no respect for that at all.

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by sonrisaa29

While I had hoped to BF for 2 weeks (since this was the longest I could stay off my meds) to give him some, LLL refused to help me since they knew I was planning on not establishing a BF relationship.

You need to report them to LLLI then, because that's blatantly against their policy.

[LittlePeanut]

Originally Posted by mamamarley

I kinda brought this up at last month's LLL meeting and the general consensus was that it was best to lead by example, to not be pushy or judgmental, to demonstrate through your attitude and actions and your perfectly healthy child... So that's what I'm trying to do.

That's my attitude as well as I happily nurse my 22 m/o.

That said, I have a good friend whom I only see a couple of times a year. She FF both her kids from the get go as she's on medication for being bi-polar and other antidepressants. I don't know enough about her health issues to judge her. Also, other than the FF I would venture to say that she is as much or more AP than me. When she bottlefeeds the baby formula she does it in a very loving way with her attention focused wholy on her child. She is the ONLY person I knew that wore her baby and she introduced me to the world of slings when I was 8 months pregnant - Her baby was just weeks old at the time and I saw how easy it was... I am thankful everyday that she introduced me to that world. She is the only person I know IRL that homeschools. She is a wonderful mom who just happens to FF. It makes her no less loving IMO.

I don't "discuss" BF with her as we have soooooo many other topics discuss when we see each other. I just do what I do when it comes to BF/NIP my child and lead by example.

LP