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The Rapture

post #1 of 52
Thread Starter 
Wow. My mom, a former Catholic who raised me non-denominational Christian (I'm starting to wonder what that means), introduced me to the Left Behind series of books. I thought it was an interesting story. It's interesting to see what the tribulation could be like. However, I didn't realize until just now, while doing some research, that the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture is a relatively new concept that is only held by certain groups! I don't think the Catholic Church teaches that there's a pre-tribulation rapture.

I guess I hadn't really thought about it. I know I've always believed in a rapture by Jesus, but I hadn't thought about if there's a pre-trib rapture AND a post-trib rapture. Hmmm. Where does the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture come from?
post #2 of 52
The idea of the "Rapture" has its roots in a very early Christian heresy called millenarianism, but it did not gain popularity as a Protestant heresy until the mid-1800's due to an Irish Protestant preacher named John Nelson Darby.

He taught that there would be a secret Rapture before Christ's second coming. Lahaye and Jenkins have revived Darby's idea.

Obviously, the Catholic Church has denied this error since the earliest days of the Church (around 5th century).

The Catholic Church teaches that the Tribulation occurs with the rise of Antichrist, and after the Tribulation and Final Battle is the General Judgment, the event whereby all souls who are still living at the time of Christ's return are taken to the valley of Har Meggido, along with the souls of all who have ever lived, to be judged in the General Judgment.
post #3 of 52
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I'm thinking Lahaye and Jenkins aren't very pro-Catholic since in their books, the first Catholic pope after the pre-tribulation rapture becomes the head of the Antichrist's church!
post #4 of 52
Catholics are Amillennialists.
post #5 of 52
Thread Starter 
Potty Diva, would you explain that term?
post #6 of 52
sure. Um... let me find a link with a detailed explanation.

Scroll towardthe bottom of this page.
As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists.
post #7 of 52
My favorite book on the Left Behind series and why it's such total crap, theologically speaking, is Barbara Rossing's "The Rapture Exposed."
post #8 of 52
I LOVED reading the Left behind Series. I think I read until Book8 or 9. Just good reading and I loved the characters. Total hogwash, but still fun.
post #9 of 52
Thread Starter 
I'm interested in the characters in the series, but I think the writing could be better. To be honest, I never thought about what I believed about the Rapture until just now. I've seen those, "In case of Rapture, this car will be left unmanned" bumper stickers, but I assumed it meant when Jesus comes back.

Thanks PD-off to do some research.
post #10 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadingMama View Post
I'm interested in the characters in the series, but I think the writing could be better. To be honest, I never thought about what I believed about the Rapture until just now. I've seen those, "In case of Rapture, this car will be left unmanned" bumper stickers, but I assumed it meant when Jesus comes back.



Was always amused by the bumpersticker that says "In case of Rapture, can I have your car?"

post #11 of 52
I spent 12 years in Catholic schools and was pretty sure that the Book of Revelation is by no means universally accepted by the Catholic Church as a prediction of future events. Which is to say that while Catholics believe Jesus will come again they do not neccesarily believe that the story will unfold anything like what is described in Revelation.
post #12 of 52
kama- this is true
post #13 of 52
A lot of Christian denominations reject the rapture because there's no biblical foundation. Catholics reject it completely and officially. Of course Jesus will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, we believe that, but the whole dispensationalism and millenialism and all that is totally false and unsupported and requires some pretty shocking twisting of scripture in order to justify it biblically (to be fair, some people say the same thing about us, so...)

Scripture is clear that when Christ returns we will see it and hear it and know it. (Acts 1:11, Matthew 24:21-31)

Thessolonians 5:1-10 tells us that the coming of Christ won't be something we can predict, it will be sudden and unexpected.

The bible does say that one will be taken and one will remain, but how people manage to extrapolate this elaborate "rapturing" sceanario from that is beyond me.
post #14 of 52
Katie- a religion professor of mine said that without Daniel there is no support of the rapture and it was officially taught until the 1950s?
post #15 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by merpk View Post
Was always amused by the bumpersticker that says "In case of Rapture, can I have your car?"

I've never seen that, but thought it a few times
post #16 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
Katie- a religion professor of mine said that without Daniel there is no support of the rapture and it was officially taught until the 1950s?

There are several verses in the New Testament that allude to a rapture or "taking away" of the Christian church.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 51Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Jesus gave two different descriptions for his coming for believers.

THe first is in Matthew 24:29-31. It says " 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

This describes Christ coming for his believers, whom he calls the 'elect'.

Also this passage talks about Jesus coming for the believers prior to a time of great tribulation here on the earth.

Matthew 24:37-42 - As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.


Jesus really did talk alot about the end of the world and coming for those who put their trust in Him. In the book of John he tells his followers that he will go and prepare a place for them, (believers) then come again a get them and go to a place he has prepared for them in heaven.

So to say there really isn't much in the Bible about it is untrue imo.

Its a fascinating subject imo and yes one that even believers of yester-year believed in. (maybe not established organized churches, but certainly individual believers.

I found out there are a lot of varying opinions on this after googling the word "rapture"
post #17 of 52
Not one of the passages you quote refer to being raptured. Wow.

And IF there were such a thing as the rapture, why would it not be discovered until the 1950s?
post #18 of 52
Quote:
Not one of the passages you quote refer to being raptured. Wow
NO the word rapture is not in the Bible.

"rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up,"

A dictionary meaning for Rapture says: The transporting of a person from one place to another.

SO I think those biblical verses do speak of a "rapture"

...and yes the "taking away of believers" was believed by many before the 50's, but maybe the word rapture wasn't used then.


Using the word rapture in describing this "taking away" is new, but not the concept of Christ coming for his church. That's as old as Christianity.


....but like I said. There are varying opinons on it. Millions of Christians believe the statements and verses I quoted, millions don't and explain them away. Time will tell which is true I guess.
post #19 of 52
And either way, belief in the rapture or not, is not part of Christianity or salvation. So really, either way, ít doesn't bother me.
post #20 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
And either way, belief in the rapture or not, is not part of Christianity or salvation. So really, either way, ít doesn't bother me.
It is a part of Christianity even though the word is not, you just choose not to include it in your Christianity.

The concept of the rapture has been the hope and comfort of millions of Christian since the beginning of Christianity and still is.
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